PO disconnected the engine driven pump and installed an electric fuel pump with Racor and auto type filters. I was thinking of installing a second pump I can switch to in case the "primary" fails. I have a second racor type filter. The question is whether to create two parallel systems, or put the filters in series ahead of the pumps, and just parallel the pumps.
Fuel Pump Redundancy
- Thread starter wufibugs
- Start date
I would be more concerned about replacing that electric pump with an enine driven one. If your pump or electrical system fails your engine will quit.
The dual filter systems will be a great update in case of bad fuel.
The dual filter systems will be a great update in case of bad fuel.
Steve, I infer you are suggesting they be installed in series before any other pump.
Actually, I like the electric pump because I think it eliminates the need to bleed. I have thought about testing and reconnecting the engine driven pump as a further backup in case of complete electrical failure. I am wondering if the PO disconnected it because it failed. A new one looks to be about $140.
When my fuel pump failed it was much cheaper to install an electric. This seems to be the go to option for a failed fuel pump. The PO also installed two filters with an a-off-b valve.
The mechanic who has years of experience with diesel trucks, stated that he only installs a electric pumps that are CG approved. He told me that in the years he had been installing the pump on trucks, they go millions of miles without failure. Might be BS, only quoting what he said.
The mechanic who has years of experience with diesel trucks, stated that he only installs a electric pumps that are CG approved. He told me that in the years he had been installing the pump on trucks, they go millions of miles without failure. Might be BS, only quoting what he said.
if your system does not have a primer pump on it, an electric fuel pump, inline before the main filters is good....
an approved electric pump is better...
I would make sure its a free flow pump (you can blow thru it freely in the direction that the fuel goes thru it.... have an on-off toggle switch to operate it....
this will give you a back up transfer pump as well as a fuel primer pump..... the switch would normally be kept in the off position, except when priming, or when the main transfer pump fails....
be sure to install a small debris filter between it and the tank...
a good electric fuel pump can last a long time, but if you dont replace the failed mechanical pump with a new one, then you are by choice, removing any redundancy you are using as an excuse to install the electric one.... do it right the first time and you wont be sorry later
an approved electric pump is better...
I would make sure its a free flow pump (you can blow thru it freely in the direction that the fuel goes thru it.... have an on-off toggle switch to operate it....
this will give you a back up transfer pump as well as a fuel primer pump..... the switch would normally be kept in the off position, except when priming, or when the main transfer pump fails....
be sure to install a small debris filter between it and the tank...
a good electric fuel pump can last a long time, but if you dont replace the failed mechanical pump with a new one, then you are by choice, removing any redundancy you are using as an excuse to install the electric one.... do it right the first time and you wont be sorry later
While I agree with the rest of your post, this part's something that needs to be reconsidered. Many Facet approved electric fuel pumps have tiny filters on the bottom, and most builders made the mistake of putting the fuel pump before the primary fuel filters. The purpose of the primary fuel filters is obvious. The fuel pumps should go after the primary filters.
The Racor is behind the electric fuel pump, then an in-line filter that looks like an auto filter. These are very low pressure pumps so I can see where they'd last forever, particularly in trucks that are not exposed to fuel dock and foreign diesel. The pumps are so cheap, I figured a second one with a racor type filter would give a little peace of mind. Course all is dependent on having the juice to run it. Guess I'll have to reconnect the mechanical pump to see if it works. If not, I'll have to go on the hunt for a used one as a backup in case of complete electrical failure.
yes, in fact, it really should make no difference where the aux pump is located, as long as the fuel runs thru the main filter system BEFORE it goes to the injectors or injector pump....
the original engine mounted mechanical lift pump is inline BEFORE the filters..
the primary filter is the first filter in the system, but not the first component. its purpose is to catch the majority of the water and debris... the secondary is a finer media and is suppose to catch whatever makes it thru the primary... if the primary is changed timely in a normal, reasonably clean system, the secondary should only need to be changed every other time... if its getting dirty and restricting the flow, the primary is not doing a proper job....
almost all electric fuel pumps that are readily available are meant to push fuel, rather than suck it... so it should be mounted as close to the tank as practical.
the pumps that are designed for suction are more expensive, and usually special order....
but this is not to say at the level of fuel vs the height that it needs to lift the fuel, that a common pump would not be adequate, but sucking fuel thru filters that may be a bit waterlogged, or otherwise have some small restriction is asking a lot from a push pump... as they dont prime them selves very well, but as long as they have something to push away, a natural vacuum will bring up the fuel from the tank. (we would like to assume the fuel and filters will always be clean and fresh, but sometimes this is NOT the case)
and in addition to this theory, if upon changing the filters, with the fuel pump after the filters, if you dont get a good seal somewhere, you will have an air leak that will prevent priming... 'cuz it will suck air in and not fuel... and will be hard to find.
if the pump is closer to the tank, it WILL prime the system, and any loose filters/fittings will show quickly as a fuel leak. tighten the problem area and go...
we can never know what the situation will be when the aux pump needs to be used, but if its located in the optimum location in the system, you can cover all bases..
I would buy a new Facet electric pump, and simply keep it in the spares box with alternator, and starter, etc..
Yucch on manual lift pumps. Except some have the manual pumping lever on the side, that is the single useful function of the leaky devils. Or if you are trying to run the diesel with zero power on it at all. Unlikely.
Yucch on manual lift pumps. Except some have the manual pumping lever on the side, that is the single useful function of the leaky devils. Or if you are trying to run the diesel with zero power on it at all. Unlikely.
Richard,
I think that having two filters in parallel is the best way to go. I have a Yanmar 50hp engine with an engine mounted fuel filter (the secondary) and I have put together a system that has two primary filters that can be valved on or off one, the other or both together. I added suction gauges and an electric pump that I can use to polish fuel from a six gallon jerry can. Here is what it looks like:
I think that having two filters in parallel is the best way to go. I have a Yanmar 50hp engine with an engine mounted fuel filter (the secondary) and I have put together a system that has two primary filters that can be valved on or off one, the other or both together. I added suction gauges and an electric pump that I can use to polish fuel from a six gallon jerry can. Here is what it looks like:
Guys,
These little Facet pumps, either the gold series or the cubes, are extremely reliable. This one came off a customers boats and was 25 years old at the time with tons of engine hours (about 3100 IIRC). The gasket on the bottom was all that was leaking, but the owner insisted on a new pump. This pump was used in a suction mode, behind the primary, for 25 years. Other than a leaky gasket and some rust it still worked perfectly. A new filter and gasket for a few $4 at NAPA and she was as good as new..
It worked so well I could not bear to part with it so I grabbed some spares out of box and built a small portable fuel polisher. This system has run perhaps 400-500 hours per year since building it. I also use to to transfer fuel when a tank is leaking etc.... I even used it to polish my 275 gallon home heating oil tank and left it running for six straight weeks... Even in this set up it is in suction mode. The pump is now 30 years old and runs flawlessly and will often run for 8-10 hours straight and when I used it to polish my homes heating oil it ran for six straight weeks 24/7..
A spare..? Why? IME there are many items on your engine or boat that can fail well before these little pumps, leaving you without power or mobility........
These little Facet pumps, either the gold series or the cubes, are extremely reliable. This one came off a customers boats and was 25 years old at the time with tons of engine hours (about 3100 IIRC). The gasket on the bottom was all that was leaking, but the owner insisted on a new pump. This pump was used in a suction mode, behind the primary, for 25 years. Other than a leaky gasket and some rust it still worked perfectly. A new filter and gasket for a few $4 at NAPA and she was as good as new..
It worked so well I could not bear to part with it so I grabbed some spares out of box and built a small portable fuel polisher. This system has run perhaps 400-500 hours per year since building it. I also use to to transfer fuel when a tank is leaking etc.... I even used it to polish my 275 gallon home heating oil tank and left it running for six straight weeks... Even in this set up it is in suction mode. The pump is now 30 years old and runs flawlessly and will often run for 8-10 hours straight and when I used it to polish my homes heating oil it ran for six straight weeks 24/7..
A spare..? Why? IME there are many items on your engine or boat that can fail well before these little pumps, leaving you without power or mobility........
So the better solution might be that instead of a dedicated redundant electric fuel delivery system, to create a fuel polishing loop that could be adapted deliver fuel in emergencies. Would it be workable to install a diverter valve in the current fuel delivery line that would lead to a second pump/filter which would lead back to the tank? This could be used periodically or after refueling. Wonder if the electric tank switching set up from an old dual tank Jaguar might work. Still a little nervous about relying solely on battery power, partly because I once experimented with sailing into a marina and chickened out when I felt my checkbook throbbing in fear.
PS: Center suggests that the filter is after the Yanmar mechanical pump. The original setup was all steel lines and it certainly does not look like there was a filter between the pump and the banjo fitting. I can't imagine how a primary filter could fit in there.
PS: Center suggests that the filter is after the Yanmar mechanical pump. The original setup was all steel lines and it certainly does not look like there was a filter between the pump and the banjo fitting. I can't imagine how a primary filter could fit in there.
In addition to Stu's comment on putting the pumps after the filters, I believe that Raycor strongly cautions that the filter should not have a pump before it. The pump will thoroughly mix any water with the oil and make it so it won't settle out in the filter bowl (imagine shaking a bottle of salad dressing, and see how long it takes to settle back out).
Harry
Yes, with Racor Turbine filters they ideally want the pump on the suction side. You can install it on the pressure side but the water removal efficiency drops off..
Parker/Racor:
"Filter assemblies should be
installed on vacuum side of fuel
transfer pump for optimum water
separating efficiency."