Asym rig for short hand douse

[Joidevivre]

Happy '14 sailors.

Joie de Vivre is a '74 Catalina 27 sailing out of Vancouver, Canada. She's mature but in good shape. One of my winter projects is a Selden bowsprit to better fly our asym. Am looking for a dousing solution to allow single and short handing (have a tiller pilot), and don't want to spring for a top-down furler. A sock is an obvious choice (don't own one yet), but being the keener I am, have an idea for a cockpit-based solution:

Halyard run to port cabin top. Tack line for asym run through bowsprit and back to port side cabin top. Sock control lines run through a double block at the stem, then run either back to cabin top, or along stanchions in a continuous loop. I anticipate that the foot block for the control lines will need to be somehow forward of the stem so that, as the sock comes down, the ring doesn't collide w the forestay.

The idea behind all this would be to be able to douse the asym by hauling down the sock, and leaving it on the bowsprit with the sock cleated tight just ahead of the stem, while re-hoisting the (hank on) genny. Running the sock control lines close to the stem will keep them out of the way of the sail, close to the forestay, while still allowing for our favored inside gybes.

Thoughts? Will this work? Problems or suggestions?

 

[Bill Roosa]

The concept is sound. As long as ALL the lines are forward of the jib/forstay you should not have any issues. However, it will kill your pointing as the sock and sail when doused will cause the jib to operate in disturbed air. And there is the issue of drag........ mostly racing issues. For single handed sailing it is a great idea and I'm thinking of copying it when I build my sock.
also Sailrite has kits and plans for socks that are reasonable. FWIW

 

[Calif. Ted]

I've sailed and motored to windward with the chute hoisted in the sock and at the front of the mast, the windage is extreme. It really slows you down, seems like it would be worse out on a sprit. The sock is pretty fat and it also wants to oscillate when exposed to winds above 10 knots. The new furlers seem to roll down much smaller than the profile on a sock.

 

[Jackdaw]

Left up while going to wind, the spin in the sock will flutter and bang around like you would not believe. Tons of drag and possibly damage. You mention you have a tiller pilot. Why not go forward and get it out out the way?

Even with a top-down furler, nobody leaves that up for a long time. It does not roll tightly, and has no UV protection.

 

[Les]

I understand your thinking of a cockpit controlled chute. I just added a asymmetrical chute for my Hunter 27 from Doyle loft in Lynnwood (WA). Jim Kitchen designed it and also helped to lay out the controls.

I have a halyard to starboard, a tack through a block at the bow and back to a locking turning block. My two sheets go through blocks at the stern next to my steering station. The entire chute with sheets attached go into a bag or title that I can put on either side of the boat at the shrouds--lay out my sheets and I'm ready to go

Once the chute is flying I can douse it by just releasing the sheet and pulling it in to the cockpit. It is simple to just stuff back into the bag.

My only problem with the chute is the Jim wants me to jibe it between the forestay and the mast. I like letting it fly out front and turning the boat. Minor problem.

If you want you could come to Bellingham and take a look....and even try it out if the weather is good. It is a one person chute. I bought it just for the fun of flying it.
/Users/lesblackwell/Desktop/IMG_0091.jpg

 

[Joe]

My suggestion is to forget the sock entirely....it is cumbersome and unnecessary for your boat size. Larger boats, in cruising applications...yes, the sock is a benefit with short handed crew, but here it's just an additional complication.

Instead, devise a plan to launch the chute directly from the deck, using a retrieval line attached to the center of the sail that will pull it right back into a boxed turtle bag near the foredeck hatch, or even a soft, sock like, launcher... fixed on deck near the sprit pointing forward.

The common practice among racers is to use a continuous halyard/retrieval line. Tackline, sheets and halyard remain connected to the sail at the mouth of the launch sock, waiting for deployment. The other end of the halyard, which is the retrieval line, feeds through the rear of the sock.... At take down, it pulls the sail from its middle back into the sock, leaving the whole thing ready to go again.

The flaw in your plan is based on your inexperience with using a spinnaker sock... I know, because I purchased one years ago and discovered its limitations. The snuffer and sail need to be dropped after use, you can't leave it hoisted while sailing up wind...

Now, you can set it up on deck.... hoist, sheet and adjust tack line from the cockpit... but you need some way to work the sock's control line from the cockpit, and you want to be able to place the whole thing where you want it when it comes down... and you don't want to go forward to hook or un hook everything up...... it's way to complicated ... just because you want to use a spinnaker sock.

What I did was rig everything so it could be handled from the MAST... a safer place to be than the foredeck... so tackline, halyard and sock control line can be operated there.
I put a jam/vee cleat on deck near the mast for the tack line so I could release it from the cockpit. The other lines can be left cleated at the mast... because they don't need much adjustment and you have to go forward to bring everything down. You should leave the forward hatch un dogged so you can open it from topside.

If you absolutely have to do everything from the cockpit, the a retrieval line is a big help, along with a deck mounted launch tube ....

So... google "spinnaker launch systems" or "spinnaker retrieval line" to rethink your approach.

 

[Meriachee]

The sock idea makes single handing easy, but leaving the sock up will definitely mess with things. Even without any funky stuff for the sock halyard, you can put it up and take it down without being out of the cockpit for more than a minute. A couple of good nylon straps with snap shackles would allow the sock to be quickly lashed to a lifeline. That's what we used to do on our old boat.

Once the sprit is installed on our 270 in the spring, the same kind of approach will likely be in order. It's fast and the sail is close, without affecting windage. Oh, and it allows a few more feet of stray line in the cockpit to clutter the place up!

 

[Joidevivre]

Thanks for the great feedback guys! Your insight definitely is saving me from the ignorance of my inexperience w a sock, as you rightly point (no pun intended) out.

I love the idea of a chute, and as an ex-dingy sailor (16' Lazy-E) am familiar with chutes and retrieval lines. Had been researching the idea of adapting this setup to the Catalina, but ditched it assuming the sail was just too big. Would require 3 retrieval patches, and a well engineered chute mouth. I had imagined laying a fabric chute along the foredeck, w steel or fiberglass hoop mounted on the pulpit, and retrieval line exiting the chute near the mast base.

Is this doable on a 27'? How cool would it be to execute single line launch and retrieval..!!

 

[higgs]

I single handed for years using an asym with a sock and had very good results. I did put on the auto and went forward to lower it to the deck when going upwind. One advantage of a sock is the ability to use the asym in heavier air by using the sock part way lowered to reef the sail.

I would also fly it as a symetrical for greater flexibility going downwind using a spinnaker pole with a guy.

 

[Joe]

Thanks for the great feedback guys! Your insight definitely is saving me from the ignorance of my inexperience w a sock, as you rightly point (no pun intended) out.

I love the idea of a chute, and as an ex-dingy sailor (16' Lazy-E) am familiar with chutes and retrieval lines. Had been researching the idea of adapting this setup to the Catalina, but ditched it assuming the sail was just too big. Would require 3 retrieval patches, and a well engineered chute mouth. I had imagined laying a fabric chute along the foredeck, w steel or fiberglass hoop mounted on the pulpit, and retrieval line exiting the chute near the mast base.

Is this doable on a 27'? How cool would it be to execute single line launch and retrieval..!!

I think so....perhaps make the hoop out of PVC... see the Laser 2 pic on my previous post. Suspend it in the pulpit ahead of the forestay... with the bowsprit, that'll put everything out front where it won't interfere with the upwind sails.

The main obstacle will be finding the right material for the sock.... because there will be a lot of friction when the sail goes in and out....

 

[Steve Connell]

I think so....perhaps make the hoop out of PVC... see the Laser 2 pic on my previous post. Suspend it in the pulpit ahead of the forestay... with the bowsprit, that'll put everything out front where it won't interfere with the upwind sails.

The main obstacle will be finding the right material for the sock.... because there will be a lot of friction when the sail goes in and out....

I have had the same question for my SJ 24 and believe the "launcher" is the better solution. There are a number of boats including Cats that make it work very well.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.