Sad News For Sailing.......

[Maine Sail]

Sabres are sailboats of the 70's. Beautiful, well built, but very expensive and lacking in the amenities and the price points that sell the production boats of the 2000's. I traded in my 39 ft yawl on a 44 ft production boat and the broker told me that the old girl had maybe one more turnover in her life before she became unsellable. Back in the 70's and 80's nobody talked about electric heads, air conditioning, generators, walk through sterns, roller furling mains'ls, and so forth. Now boat buyers want all of the above (or at least their wives do).With the "...booming economy.." powerboats always sell better but try to sell a used SeaRay. They're giving them away.

Perhaps you had never been on a later model Sabre.....?? I have a number of customers with newer Sabre's and they are simply amazing & not lacking anything.... One of them was a full semi custom build where they allowed the owner tons of leeway. She is a spectacular boat.. The late 90's through the end Taylor designed Sabre's are a lot different from the early Roger Hewson Sabre's.

 

[jimmcgee]

I'm kind of surprised at how much people are reading into this.

I was on a 456 two years ago in Annapolis. An absolutely amazing boat - but by no means a middle class boat unless we have different definitions of middle class.

The 456 had a base price of around $700,000. I'll grant you median home prices vary greatly depending on where you live, but $700K is more than most middle class families paid for their home.

Sabre simply shifted their efforts to a product line that is more profitable. My local dealer seems to be doing OK selling Catalinas, Jeanneaus and Beneteaus.

 

[Skipper]

Fiberglass boats last longer than the old wooden ones. We may have finally reached saturation, while we wait for the old boats to die. Seems odd, though, that with events such as Hurricane Sandy and others, there would be more $ out there for new boats, and pressure on the used market.

 

[Maine Sail]

Fiberglass boats last longer than the old wooden ones. We may have finally reached saturation, while we wait for the old boats to die. Seems odd, though, that with events such as Hurricane Sandy and others, there would be more $ out there for new boats, and pressure on the used market.

Also, and I have to say this because it is relevant, our culture is moving to a, well, more even individual economic status. That is, there are fewer "rich" people to afford $800,000 sailboats, which means the "common" person who builds, maintains, outfits, insures, fuels, customizes, cleans, covers, berths, and captains these vessels are out of jobs.

"Tax the rich, feed the poor, Till there are no rich no more." -10 Years After (band) Such a profound statement, yet not in the way they intended. My question would be: Once there are no rich no more, who is going to feed the poor? IE: Who is going to employ the marine industry? Certainly not us poor sailors.

Delete this if too political.

My buddy who is a broker is surviving off the "wealthy" not the middle class these days.

He can't give away the 20-40K boats as there is no one out there to buy them and the bottom has literally fallen out. Prices for used 28-42 footers has fallen steadily every year for the last 6-10 yet the prices and LOA's for high end, high quality custom and semi custom boats continue to climb.

The companies building boats for the wealthy keep pushing hull lengths because the wealthy ARE still buying boats. Try finding a slip these days for a 50+ footer.... A few years ago the biggest power boat Sabre built was a 42. They are tooling up in Rockland as I type this for the new 66 footer.... The 54' was only introduced last year and so far 5 or 6 have already been sold.

The middle class boat market seems to be vanishing at a faster rate than the luxury yacht class. When a 31 foot boats costs $150k+ is that really affordable to today's "middle class"? What is the "middle class"? I've got good friends who are doctors who can't afford a new 30' +/- Catalina.

15 years ago no one would have conceived a catamaran such as a Gunboat, an Outremer or a Chris White Cat $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$! I mean really who is going to pay 2+ million for a catamaran..? Those builders have wait lists and those companies seem to grow every year... Swan, Oyster, HR etc. and Hinckley just re-introduced a very, very expensive Sou'Wester 50.. etc. etc..

When was the last time we saw a new boat company pop into the middle class market? Now compare that with the high end, big money market..... Sabre is simply going where the money is and had been since the late 90's.... They had long ago moved out of the middle class market..

 

[Old Skool Neil]

Been there - AGAIN!

We had the same experience in the 70's. The cutoff point at the time was somewhere at the 35 foot range. The typical 27 - 30 foot sailboat customer had to scrape together every dime he could find to make a down payment and barely finance his dream boat. Beyond 35 feet, the customers were either paying cash or had financing readily available.

At Jensen we had a customer land his helicopter across the street (vacant lot at the time) and walk in the front door, checkbook in hand, to purchase a Cal 2-46. Pretty dramatic entrance but he was referred to our local dealer. Other than internal employee sales there were no boats sold factory direct, dealer network only.

BTW and off topic, employee sales carried a minimum one year ownership obligation to prevent someone from setting up a private resale enterprise.

 

[georgeh3ci]

E-mail from Glen at Sabre is below. Appears that the rumor of destroyed molds is not true.


From: Glen Chaplin [mailto:gchaplin@sabreyachts.com]
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 10:24 AM
To: George@HommeOnline.net
Cc: Sherri L Homme
Subject: RE: Sabre 452 Hull #1

Untrue.
We still have molds for the Spirit, 386, 426, & 456
The 386 is no longer in our offerings though.

Yes, other molds have been destroyed because they got worn, and not useable.


Glen D. Chaplin
Customer Relations Rep.
gchaplin@sabreyachts.com


PO Box 134
So. Casco, ME 04077
Direct: 207-655-2396 x239
Fax: 207-655-5050
www.sabreyachts.com



From: George Homme [mailto:GeorgeH@HommeOnline.net]
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 9:43 AM
To: Glen Chaplin
Cc: 'Sherri L Homme'
Subject: RE: Sabre 452 Hull #1

Hey Glen!

Heard thru the grapevine that Sabre has destroyed their all their sailboat molds except for SPIRIT. Is that true? Does that mean we couldn’t get a 456 built if we wanted one?

I was chatting with my buddy who works for Sabre Yachts, and we had an interesting discussion.

He mentioned how busy they are with a new 54 under construction and 4 or 5 more orders of that model behind it. They are also moving forward on a 66 footer. Things are booming along at Sabre Yachts. Sadly, these are ALL power boats!

I asked him, because business seems so good, if perhaps they had any sailboat orders. Sabre had said they they would build them, if asked to but were ceasing "production".. He said no.

He then told me he just watched the 456 molds being destroyed along with others over the last few weeks.. One of the only molds they were not destroying was the Spirit...

It is a sad day for sailing when Sabre starts cutting up their sailboat molds. Here in Maine, as one would guess, Sabres are one of the more popular sailboats on the coast. Well built, good sailing and good looking.. Sad that they have come to an end..........

 

[justsomeguy]

E-mail from Glen at Sabre is below. Appears that the rumor of destroyed molds is not true.


-snip

Yay!
This just makes so much more sense than the destruction of perfectly good molds due to patent/QC worries.

Edit after georgeh3ci's update- Damn!

 

[georgeh3ci]

OK, a correction from Sabre. Apparently the molds have been destroyed.....update straight from Sabre....

----------------------------------------
Thanks for the link. I have shared w/ Sabre management, however I do need to swallow my words a little bit.

The fact of the matter is that as with any of our models, sail or power, as they run their course we destroy the molds, because they are worn, and also take up so much room to store them. They become unusable
So, it is true that the molds have all been retired, except for the Spirit.

If and when the sailboat market rebounds, and we start getting a lot of interest for a Sabre Sailboat, then it would be a complete new model, with new tooling and design.

I hope that clears up any confusion.


Glen D. Chaplin
Customer Relations Rep.
gchaplin@sabreyachts.com

 

[Benny17441]

The sailboat manufacturing business is doing well but it is getting more competitive as the big ones like Hunter and Catalina pour on the advertising dollars nationally. perhaps Sabre Yachts shifted their focus to a less competitive and perhaps more profitable market.

 

[Maine Sail]

I did not make this stuff up he's been working at Sabre for 25+ years and is a straight shooter.........

OK, a correction from Sabre. Apparently the molds have been destroyed.....update straight from Sabre....

----------------------------------------
Thanks for the link. I have shared w/ Sabre management, however I do need to swallow my words a little bit.

The fact of the matter is that as with any of our models, sail or power, as they run their course we destroy the molds, because they are worn, and also take up so much room to store them. They become unusable
So, it is true that the molds have all been retired, except for the Spirit.

If and when the sailboat market rebounds, and we start getting a lot of interest for a Sabre Sailboat, then it would be a complete new model, with new tooling and design.

I hope that clears up any confusion.


Glen D. Chaplin
Customer Relations Rep.
gchaplin@sabreyachts.com

 

[woodster]

I did not make this stuff up he's been working at Sabre for 25+ years and is a straight shooter.........

.......all i can say is if Maine Sail tells you the black berries are ripe then you need to get lots of buckets......

regards

woody

 

[Stu Jackson]

Quoted political post removed

Gee, and my earlier post got removed...

 

[Skipper]

Gee, and my earlier post got removed...

The moderator likes me better

Still, I may have been outside of the original poster's point. So, I'll delete me.

 

[Maine Sail]

The moderator likes me better

Still, I may have been outside of the original poster's point. So, I'll delete me.

Just means we missed it.... Thanks for deleting it..

 

[troutman]

I have a different perspective than what has been offered. Rudd made a hot water tank from Monel steel, they never wore out. I had one that was 40 years old, unfortunately this killed the market for new tanks. Look at Ebay, tons of cheap old boats, few will pay ten times the price of a used boat for a new one when the old one only needs new cushions and sails. Secondly, guys that have some money and also enjoy working with their hands are fewer each year. Union guys bought smaller sailboats but sadly these guys are getting older and there are fewer of them. Thirdly, small, spartan boats like a San Juan 21or Venture 21 do not appeal to the comfort levels of the newer potential buyers. I have a Venture 21 and my wife is not crazy about the spartan coziness of it. She loved the new Catalina's but we don't have $35,000 extra laying around. New buyers are caught, they want a new boat but can't afford it, Champane tastes on a beer budget. New buyers can afford a pontoon boat or jet ski.

 

[jimmcgee]

My buddy who is a broker is surviving off the "wealthy" not the middle class these days.

15 years ago no one would have conceived a catamaran such as a Gunboat, an Outremer or a Chris White Cat $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$! I mean really who is going to pay 2+ million for a catamaran..? Those builders have wait lists and those companies seem to grow every year... Swan, Oyster, HR etc. and Hinckley just re-introduced a very, very expensive Sou'Wester 50.. etc. etc..

Sabre is simply going where the money is and had been since the late 90's.... They had long ago moved out of the middle class market..

I completely understand Sabre going where the money is. They are after all in business to make money. I do wonder though why they weren't selling sailboats. They were certainly serving the right demographic and the quality was there.

Is it the case where a 45 footer is simply too small for that market?

 

[Maine Sail]

I completely understand Sabre going where the money is. They are after all in business to make money. I do wonder though why they weren't selling sailboats. They were certainly serving the right demographic and the quality was there.

Is it the case where a 45 footer is simply too small for that market?

I honestly think so. Every year Sabre seemed to do larger & sailboats and dropping the smaller ones off the other end. For a while this chasing the client worked ok but I suppose eventually the client who could afford an 800k 45' boat finally went for the 55' 1.3M boat and Sabre just could not keep pace...

 

[25yearslater]

Several persons have pointed out the shrinking middle class which were the drivers of the boating industry through the late seventies and early eighties. Ignore the politics as this is an economic reality. Remember Oday was in the group that went from biggest to gone as the target market lost massive purchasing power and real wages were in free fall for the last 30+ years. Now why would any of us care? Don't know about most folks here but I can't support a marina single handed. Without a vibrant middle class buying boats it is a foregone conclusion that marinas will close. The high dollar boat owners can afford to buy the marina but I don't want to rely on their charity to supply the rest of us with slips. The few marinas surviving may decide to charge premium prices for the slips when they are the only game in town. I know what I'm doing with the mega jackpot when I find the winning ticket on the sidewalk. I am going to open a non profit boat building company and buuy a marina, non profit of course. Wish me luck.

 

[Jackdaw]

I honestly think so. Every year Sabre seemed to do larger & sailboats and dropping the smaller ones off the other end. For a while this chasing the client worked ok but I suppose eventually the client who could afford an 800k 45' boat finally went for the 55' 1.3M boat and Sabre just could not keep pace...

And... a 45 foot boat with a MASTHEAD rig? What is this, 1985?

Any new boat that size these days has to have a big main with a non-overlapping headsail. Faster, better to windward, and much easier to handle.

 

[woodster]

I am going to open a non profit boat building company and buuy a marina, non profit of course. Wish me luck.

hell i am already ready doing that.....

regards

woody