Cabin Sole Replacement

[H45DS]

Okay, here we go... we had a leak from a hydronic heat exchanger that goes to our water heater. It was a relatively slow leak, and I didn't notice it for some time since we also had a top-side water leak (now repaired). As a result of this leak, water was seeping aft between the two layers that make up our cabin sole... from the forward portion of our main salon to the galley area.

Hunter puts down a 1/2" marine plywood base (it has some type of beige material applied to the top and bottom surfaces), and then a top layer of 1/2" marine plywood. Since the top layer is the visible part of the sole, they used cherry and holly MarineLam on the top surface and a laminate backer on the underside. MarineLam is attractive, provides good footing, and has been very durable. As a result of this exposure to moisture, the marine plywood in the top portion of the sole has swelled and "moved" in several areas. I have about 1/8" of variation between the height of adjacent pieces in a few areas, which is very noticeable under your feet. Fortunately, the underlying marine plywood seems to have been unaffected.

Bottom line is that I'm looking to replace a few of the worst-case pieces of the top portion of the cabin sole and want to make sure that I do NOT have this problem again. I've been looking at Coosa Composites' BlueSea 26 as a potential replacement for the marine plywood. According to Coosa, the product is as strong as plywood, slightly lighter (although weight isn't that much of a consideration), and most importantly has excellent stability over temperature and humidity. In short, it won't swell or "move" on me.

Out of all this, I have two questions:

1. Does anyone have any experience with this composite product (Coosa BlueSea 26), and if so what is your experience in using it to replace an identical thickness of marine plywood?
2. What adhesive would you recommend to secure MarineLam to this product?

Other ideas are also welcomed!

Thanks for sticking with me on this lengthy write-up, and I very much appreciate the insight of this experienced group!

 

[KD3PC]

1. similar products can have issues correctly bonding to marine plywood or other composites. Especially when you are trying to match thickness for thickness.
2. I would speak with Coosa and MarineLam as to what product they would suggest to adhere the new "laminate" together.

Without very consistent temperature and pressure, I am not sure you will be happy with the outcome. Then there is the issue of matching the edges and matching this new product with the sole you have.

best of luck. You have your off season chore before you.

 

[rufus1138]

my local boat mechanics here in pensacola swear by coosa board, they use it for everything...core material, flooring, seats, furniture. the only other synthetic product i know of that i might try is plasteak, havent seen it used yet but i hear really good things about it.

not a dealer for plasteak but damn its cool stuff, i got a friend who is supposed to be using this stuff extensively on his pearson 30 thats going thru a huge refit. i gotta say the glowing caulk lines in the decking is an option i might go for on my next boat.
http://www.plasteak.com/

 

[H45DS]

1. similar products can have issues correctly bonding to marine plywood or other composites. Especially when you are trying to match thickness for thickness.
2. I would speak with Coosa and MarineLam as to what product they would suggest to adhere the new "laminate" together.

Thanks for the quick reply, KD3PC! The top layer of the existing cabin sole is "pinned" into place with stainless fasteners applied at the corners into the lower layer of marine plywood, so the top layer basically floats on the lower level. I think I should be okay in that area, but we'll see. I spoke with Coosa about a suitable adhesive for MarineLam, and the first recommendation they made was 3M 5200. I've used 5200 on my rub rail project, and it is thick enough that I have concerns about applying it thinly enough to get a good outcome. I haven't yet talked with the folks who sell MarineLam, but that's my next stop as soon as I get the samples in-hand they are sending me.

Again, my thanks!

 

[H45DS]

the only other synthetic product i know of that i might try is plasteak, havent seen it used yet but i hear really good things about it.

Thanks, Rufus! I'll give the folks at PlasTeak a call today. My only concern is whether the thickness of this product would match the existing laminate used on the "older" pieces I do not plan to remove at this time.

 

[H45DS]

I received the samples of MarineLam yesterday, and unfortunately they do not match the pattern repeat of the material used by Hunter. I'm contacting Hunter, and in the meantime, I did find a product that appears to match here: http://www.toomerandhayter.co.uk/products/detail/?id=1085&cat=18. I have a sample of this material coming in the mail.

 

[H45DS]

OK, I bought a few sheets of the laminate material used on our boat from Hunter's supplier, two 4x8 sheets of Coosa BlueWater 26 composite material. Here are the results of the experiment to find a suitable adhesive to bond the laminate to the composite. So far, so good!

 

[Stu Jackson]

H45DS,

Here's a recent discussion our C34 Forum, same topic. Some things are NOT specifically related to the manufacturer of the boat. We all have cabin soles, electrical systems, etc.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7842.0.html

Good luck, happy hunting and installing. We redid our cabin sole with minwax a few years ago. Satisfying work, still looks great.

 

[H45DS]

H45DS,

Here's a recent discussion our C34 Forum, same topic. Some things are specifically related to the manufacturer of the boat. We all have cabin soles, electrical systems, etc.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7842.0.html

Good luck, happy hunting and installing. We redid our cabin sole with minwax a few years ago. Satisfying work, still looks great.

Thanks Stu! Yeah, this thread migrated from a somewhat Hunter-centric topic - by virtue of my hunt for the exact laminate used by Hunter (was hoping other Hunter owners would know) - to something that is more of a mainstream topic. Good suggestion to start a new thread and share the experience!

BTW, I have to give kudos to Eddie Breeden at Hunter-Marlow. He's been very responsive in providing contact information, etc!

 

[H45DS]

I picked up two 4x8 sheets of Coosa Bluewater 26, and managed to locate the mill that "built" the laminated plywood that Hunter used in our boat. That was the hard part. Hunter also kindly provided the CNC files for the flooring, which helped greatly. I did, however, learn that there is a fair amount of hand-fitting that went into the flooring of our boat. The CNC world translated to reality does not always work.

I've included some photos of the project in various stages, and also thought it would be worth noting a few takeaways.

- The composite material is pretty impressive. It is light and strong. It does have more flex than plywood, so I'm unsure at the moment whether it will work long-term for my removable hatch boards, but is absolutely great for the parts of the flooring that sit on plywood subflooring.

- The composite has a lot of fiberglass in it, so expect "splinters" if you work with the material without gloves.

- When routing the laminate edges, you have to be very careful when hitting an inside corner, as the router bit guide bearings tended to clog up with the laminate glue and didn't always freewheel like you'd expect and would become a bit of a cutting surface themselves.

- You have to be REALLY careful when countersinking the screw holes, as the drill wants to zip through the foam pretty quickly if you apply too much pressure.

All in all, it was a fun project and I think worked out well. Big thanks go to Jeff Sayler of Firehouse Boatworks here in Portland, who transformed my quirky project into reality.

<edit> The new pieces in the photos are those which don't have fasteners in the corners, as these photos were taken after fitting and before they were countersunk and screwed into place.

 

[Apex]

looks fanastic!

 

[H45DS]

Thanks, Apex!