Stays/Shroud Tightness

centerline · Aug 15, 2013

how much rake do you have in the mast?...
the backstay on macgregors does not have to be tight. (it really doesnt even have to be on the boat) it should be loose unless you have it rigged for sail trimming, but not 4 inches loose...
the forestay tensions against the shrouds, but before that you adjust the shrouds to set your mast rake. somewhere between 4 and 6 inches rearward from plumb, when the boat is in the water. this is a general starting point. depending on boat loading and the sails you are using, a bit more or less may be better for that boat.
after you get the mast/shrouds tuned right and the forestay tensioned, then, if you have a split backstay, you can tighten it to pull the masthead back and put some bend in the mast... this will allow the sail to be trimmed a bit flatter in the middle.
but for most of us, the backstay is just there... sometimes it is being used to hold the pigtail for the rear boom support when the sail is down, but if you have a dedicated topping lift, and arent racing, the rear stay has very little purpose on a macgregor.

dlandersson · Aug 16, 2013

Leaning towards the stern. There's a LOT of info on shroud tension.

dlandersson · Aug 16, 2013

Make sure you pay attention to the rigging tension for your model, each model is different.

JaySauls said:
Thanks for the info! I'm so eager to get this boat right I got up before sunrise, drove to the boat and stood in the rain with my headlights on the boat checking out the mast and lines, trying to see just how straight it is.

RichH · Aug 16, 2013

JaySauls -
go to http://www.riggingandsails.com/pdf/selden-tuning.pdf, choose your mast/rig configuration and make the CORRECT adjustments. These directions and 'hints' presented in this rig tune guide applies to ALL sailboat rigging. It even includes a method to *properly* tension the rigging WITHOUT a tension gauge.
The importance of proper rig tension is to provide a 'platform' for the sails to operate, sailmakers build sails expecting that the rig tension is at these levels. So, if they arent at these tensions, the sails will be less than optimum in shape and performance. The 'real' purpose of rigging tension is to allow the SAILS to operate and perform 'effectively'.

;-)

centerline · Aug 16, 2013

JaySauls said:
It took a bit of muscle to connect the forestay (we connected the mast to the slots and not the single round position). Could we have the mast in the wrong position?

And one other odd note...the guides (?)/cable along the sides of the boat were limp when the mast was down, and now tight as all get out with the mast up! That really surprised me.

Jay

as for the connection point, a photo would help.... the forestay should connect in to the forward hole.... the jib will connect to the rearward hole.

you need a turn buckle or better yet, a johnson lever to attach and adjust the forestay. if you can attach or detach it without loosening it somehow, something isnt right.

and i am assuming you are talking about the lifelines around your boat. they should never be tight, but not have excessive slack in them either. usually, if the boat has set for awhile without the mast in it and/or rigging not tensioned properly, the hull can relax a little and the lifelines will sag a bit more than would be normally proper for them.
but when the mast is stepped and tensioned up properly the lifelines may tighten up only a small amount that only someone familiar with the boat would notice that they are tighter.
when you initially tension up the rig after stepping the mast, in the next few days it will loosen up a bit as the hull settles in with the strain on it, and then it will need to be reset to get it proper, usually this only involves retensioning the forestay. BUT... if the rigging and rake has never been set properly, now is the time to do get it right. after it is set correctly, you should be able to use the forestay for any minor tension changes and/or lowering the mast. the shrouds should never have to be touched unless there is some modifications being made that require a different setting.

IF.... the lifelines are tight with the proper tension on the rig, whereas they were loose before, i would take a serious look at the compression post below the mast. the boat MUST have a solid connection so the rigging/mast can pull against the lower part of the hull where the strength lies... a solid foundation to build on.
if there is any rot in the post or shims missing, it can severely distort the hull by pushing the coachroof down too low, causing the sides to bulge and letting the boat lose its integral design strength.... which will can cause the lifelines to get tight.

THECUSCUS · Aug 16, 2013

Check the upper end of the shrouds (where the wire loop goes through the metal tangs) and make sure they haven't twisted on you. If one or more are twisted, it would make the mast very difficult to raise because it makes that shroud shorter. Not to mention, but if you do get it up, there is a good chance that the wire will now have a kink in it. Always check the tops out just before the mast goes vertical (i use binoculars so i can see them real good).

caguy · Aug 16, 2013

There are quite a few threads regarding rigging tension.
Do a search on this re: Johnson lever; Loos Guage; and adjustable back stays for te Mac 25.
Even with the Johnson bar tying the jib halyard to your anchor cleat and securing it at the mast cleat will allow you to apply enough force by pulling it sideways with you knee or shoulder to insert the clevis pin more easlily. In this way you can do it solo.

Erik V · Aug 17, 2013

Log on to the web site Rich H suggested it tells all. You will be surprised what a difference a well tuned rig makes. I have a 87 M 24 and have set it up with 20% of the wire breaking strength (4mm, 5/32) 3090# X .2= 618# , cap stay tension . We trailer sail so when the boat is on the trailer I de tension the rig. I usually sail with a 150% genoa on a CDI furler so the solution I have come up with to de tension is to use the jib halyard attached to my boom vang (4:1). It is attached to the forward chain plate with the jib halyard cleated to the mast. When the tension comes off the furler / head stay I remove the pin and insert two long shackles (about 3.5”). This leaves enough tension so the mast doesn’t flop around. The back stay is attached to the center of the stern rail with a 4:1 fiddle block set up with jam cleat so it can be tensioned when needed. There is always a slight bit of tension on the back stay. The mast is straight as an arrow with about 2 deg. of rake with the boat sitting at the dock loaded the way we sail. This set up has improved handling and made a so-so boat into a contender.

I have made a lot of other performance mods but that is for another post.

Erik

vizwhiz · Aug 24, 2013

When you mentioned that you used the slotted hole and not the single round hole, were you speaking of the mast foot? If that is what you are referring to, I think you need to double-check which hole the pin (long bolt) is supposed to go through and make sure you are starting in the right location. That could make a big difference.

doehunter · Aug 30, 2013

JaySauls said:
Interesting...I'm leaning enough to feel confident I can get this right and scared enough that I wish I'd stayed with my sunfish! The boat has set for at least 2 years with the mast down. The previous owner said all I had to do was raise the mast, connect the stays and I'd be good to go. I think I'll drop the mast again and start over. Something's just not right. Should it take 2 of us pushing on the mast to get the forestay to reach? That seemed excessive.

Thanks for your answers.

As others have said, make sure the ends of all the wires don't get twisted when as the mast is raised. The forstay must have some way of adjusting it's length to make attaching it to the tang possible. I only have a turnbuckle and I'm used to it. The Johnson lever the guys talk about would be faster. You don't have to re-tune it every time you raise the mast.
After you get the forstay connected and tightened up, all of the shrouds should be tight as well. The backstay doesn't matter all that much unless you are racing and a fanatic about tuning. I have mine just a tad snug so it doesn't swing around. ( I don't race)
When you think you have it all right, lay down with you head at the base of the mast and sight up the mast. ( I look up the sail track) From there you can see all the little bends in the mast that you can't see from the ground.
You should be able to adjust the individual wires to get the mast really straight.
Mine ended up straight from side to side and has a very slight curve aft at the top. I left it that way cause I hear the sails are cut for that shape.

doehunter · Aug 30, 2013

JaySauls said:
thanks...which way does your mast curve? Mine seems to be straight left/right, but a bit of a rake to the rear. I used some tips from others about putting a weight on the halyard and see how far it hangs from the mast. Mine hangs about 6" and from what I understand, that's probably as far as I want it to be.

Mine curves just slightly back. Side to side it's perfectly straight.
It's been a long time since I checked it but I don't think mine is raked back that much. My boom is still in the stock position on the mast and if I rake it back much it hits my bimini top when sailing.
Also, when you rake it back it'll put more load on the rudder.
That's not necessarily good or bad, but something to consider when you are playing around with your tuning.
A rudder with a heavy load will stall sooner than one with a lighter load and it can make it hard to steer. If the rudder isn't in the right position, the extra loading also can add to the amount of force you have to use to steer.
Some guys like it that way. Something about if you fall out the boat will round up instead of sailing happily away from you by itself!
Personally I like a light touch on the tiller and the ability to let go of it periodically if I want to. (with or without a tiller tamer)

Stays/Shroud Tightness

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