Raymarine SPX-5 Wheel - Omitted functionality
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We currently have a long thread going on new autopilots over at the Ericson site. Several owners are considering the CPT. It is a strong design - seems to be a good example of mature technology.
It does not interface with other electronics, but it has a reputation of being a lot more reliable.
If our Raymarine X5 keeps giving us trouble, the CPT would be our next move.
Loren
I think the market for wheel drives is pretty limited. At a certain point in your sailing program, you go for a below-deck linear drive. Much faster, stronger, and reliable.
Yes, sorry I was vague. The "track" line is the straight line from you to your GPS waypoint destination. The AP will hold the track line course, compensating for leeway, etc by adjusting the heading. If you disengage the AP, and drift a bit or dodge an obstacle or for whatever reason you get off the track line, the AP will want to go back to that line when you re-engage, instead of creating a new line from where you are now. Like driving on a straight desert highway directly at your destination, then turning right and going off road a few hundred yards, then not being able to drive straight at your destination across the sand, but rather the vehicle demanding that you drive back to the highway 1st.
It might be simpler to just fire up the iron genny and drive back to the track and then shut her down when you are back on track! It seems silly, but no sillier than having to reprogram your destination. Last summer, there was a lady that came on here to sell some of her father's un-used sailing gear. I happened to buy their brand-new in-the-box Simrad wheel pilot. I still haven't gotten around to installing it yet because I don't have much need for it yet, but I think I will get that done this weekend and check it out.
Yes, and good for going up a channel, etc. There is merit to holding a track line in some instances. But the majority of the time I'm in open water. There should be a choice to create a new track line. And there is on other AP's, including RayMarine AP's if you buy hideously more expensive control heads. I guess my $1,300 AP wasn't expensive enough. Yet, my $600 Simrad TP-22 had these features.
Hey,
I understand that the unit is missing functionality that used to exist. Since my AP is VERY old (Autohelm 3000 from 1986) it doesn't have any fancy functions, all it can do is drive the boat straight ahead (and change course port or startboard +-1 or 10). When I am trying to get to a waypoint I select it on my plotter and start the 'navigate there' function. My plotter displays the course there. I engage the AP and then press the + or - button until I'm on the correct course. Then I just sit back and let 'Fred' steer. Maybe every 30 minutes I might have to make a slight correction, it's not big deal.
Since the plotter is constantly providing the course, if I have to deviate for a bit getting back on course is simple. Maybe that would be easier for you?
Barry
I understand that the unit is missing functionality that used to exist. Since my AP is VERY old (Autohelm 3000 from 1986) it doesn't have any fancy functions, all it can do is drive the boat straight ahead (and change course port or startboard +-1 or 10). When I am trying to get to a waypoint I select it on my plotter and start the 'navigate there' function. My plotter displays the course there. I engage the AP and then press the + or - button until I'm on the correct course. Then I just sit back and let 'Fred' steer. Maybe every 30 minutes I might have to make a slight correction, it's not big deal.
Since the plotter is constantly providing the course, if I have to deviate for a bit getting back on course is simple. Maybe that would be easier for you?
Barry
Yup, I do that too. I said earlier that the AP compensates for leeway, etc., but it's actually the GPS sending corrections to the AP. The GPS will point to the required heading to maintain the course. You can check this in Compass Mode (if you have one) when sailing to a waypoint.
The beauty of the AP tracking to a waypoint is that you don't have to look at the GPS, or make AP corrections, or worry about course deviation, or improperly adjust the sails by accident to the deviated course, then have to correct them when it's discovered that I'm off course.
I have 2 sailing modes: Lazy azz and sailor. When the conditions are appropriate, I like to use the functionality of my expensive gear to be a lazy azz
If I understand this correctly, it "is the straight line from you to your GPS waypoint destination..." from the point at which you entered the waypoint to begin with, not where you are later in the sail.
Is that correct?
After using an Autohelm 4000 from 1990 until 2012 with no GPS interface, I upgraded to the X5 with it's track feature. I really like how it servos about a bearing to a waypoint with information from my Garmin 478 GPS. As others have said, when it is necessary to dodge some obstacle using the +/- controls, the autopilot does switch to Auto mode from Track mode. Pushing the Track mode button again to resume servoing does result in a rather abrupt (and sometimes scary) course change to get back to the original course still displayed on the GPS. In my case, pushing the NAV button on the GPS brings up a menu with "Navigate to" and a few choices. The first choice is the previous destination. Selecting that again creates a new straight line course to the waypoint from the present position. Then pushing Track on the autopilot seems to result in a minor to no course change to resume servoing to the desired destination. I don't know if the other GPS brands (Raymarine, etc.) have the equivalent to a Nav function but it seems with this system manual action is required to avoid the drastic course changes this particular autopilot makes if left to its own devices. Even with that, I really like it and being able to continuously compensate to the effects of current and leeway make for some very straight course lines. Now I am even more aware of how the boat is crabbing to destinations as the bow points somewhere else to where it ends up.
Yes.
The NMEA code from the GPS to keep you on the track is "Cross track error", or XTE.
Just to add:
You can also plot a route on your chartplotter, and have the AP follow that route, and warning you when you're at your next waypoint for tacking. So you can use the GPS and AP to navigate. The track line is the line to your next waypoint, which if you're on a route, may not be your final destination.
Sometimes the terminology gets confusing. If navigating from a present position to a waypoint, that is a course. A route can be created linking waypoints together from a starting point to a final destination (multiple courses). While transiting you are creating a track.. its a breadcrumb trail where you have come from. I always save my old tracks for future reference by downloading them to a laptop. Later if I want to go back to somewhere I've been, I re-upload the track into my GPS and that becomes the route. My GPS display shows a couple of headings..Course (that is the direction to the current waypoint) and Track (which is the actual direction the boat has moved). When using the X5 Auto function those two numbers can be different due to current and wind or the requirement of not being able to sail directly up or downwind. When motoring those two numbers are exactly the same when using the Track function. This is where I was confused when I first got the new autopilot... Raymarine's Track is using the GPS to stay on course by minimizing crosstrack error. So then the track ends up being right on top of the desired course.
I haven't figured out yet when Tracking on a route, when one waypoint is reached does the autopilot bring the boat around to the new course or are you supposed to push the Track button again? Either way (pushing the button or waiting to see what happens) has led to some hairy course changes including heading right back at a buoy we just passed.
X5 manual said it beep and stay the same heading after reaching a waypoint. If the AP turns you might cause accidental gibe.
Remember sailboat dont go in a straight line. GPS shows where the boat is moving, not where it's bow is pointing. Thus the diff between GPS and AP heading. Unless motoring in still water with no wind.
BTW when i had the Simrad TP-22 on another boat i never like the resume function. When I dodged an obstacle, the heading relative to wind and next waypoint has changed.
IMHO resume never worked for me.
OK, understood. So you've explained that there is no "resume" feature or function on your setup.
On our Garmin GPSMap 76Cx, there is a "recalculate" function (along with "stop navigation" which I fully understand appears to be your issue).
Is there a recalculate feature? That would use your present position with the old waypoint. Short of downloading and reading the manual, I just don't know.
If not, then you're completely right and there's some basic sailboat (heck, not even sailboat, but basic navigational) limitations in your unit.
Now, as mentioned, the choices are pretty basic, too. First, you do understand what you have and it's limitations, so I guess, like it or not, one would have to learn to live with it, bummer as it might be.
Second, another respondent mentioned how often he resets his AP while he's sailing. That leads to a "how we operate our boats."
This discussion has been going on ever since they invented "integrated" equipment. While some may feel that using routes and having the AP steer the boat along the route with changes is a powerboat thing, I do envy you your ability to apply this to your sailboat. I simply can't do that, but applaud you for being able to.
So then we get to the philosophical approach: integrated or manual? Or something in between.
I operate my boat much in the way that Barry describes. In my case, I've got our HH GPS and an old but very easy to use ST3000 wheel pilot, no integration. There IS a "resume" feature, but I've used the +1/+10 buttons more often than not that I plumb forgot what the keystrokes are for that resume feature (maybe +1 AND +10 at the same time?). Doesn't matter.
Sorry to hear about the deficiencies of your new unit, I agree they seem to be going backwards.
Good luck.
Stu the Guru
What are the odds.....I too have the GPSMap 76csx. And there IS a recalculate function, as I've just discovered. It's 2 keystrokes.
I've used this chartplotter for over 5 years. Hundreds of sailing trips. I've read the manual cover-to-cover twice, and further inspected portions of it numerous times. I'm one who likes to absorb the entirety of a system's capabilities. And I missed this.
A resolution, to a seemingly hopeless issue.
thank you.
I love this board. And I have renewed affection for Stu.
What are the odds.....I too have the GPSMap 76csx. And there IS a recalculate function, as I've just discovered. It's 2 keystrokes.
I've used this chartplotter for over 5 years. Hundreds of sailing trips. I've read the manual cover-to-cover twice, and further inspected portions of it numerous times. I'm one who likes to absorb the entirety of a system's capabilities. And I missed this.
A resolution, to a seemingly hopeless issue.
thank you.
The reason or deleting this feature likely lies with Raymarine's lawyers... Follow me here..
Your way point was X, you disengage to dodge something and the new "resume course" takes you straight over a ledge or shoal the original course did not. Heck Raymaine even disabled radar overlay based on GPS data because of legal issues...
If we as a nation stop suing at the drop of a hat perhaps we'd have more useful features....
Quite frankly I really, really, really dislike any steer to GPS feature yet customers demand it. I have it wired and 150% refuse to ever use it for coastal cruising.. IMHO it breeds complacency, causes owners to not pay as much attention as they should, and tends to lead to accidents. I plot a course on GPS then MANUALLY keep my vessel on that safe course with +1 or -1... This keep me paying attention to where I am 100% of the time. Course I sail in Maine where steer to GPS (read NOT PAYING ENOUGH ATTENTION) can be a boat sinking event... Steer to GPS here in Maine can be very dangerous if one is not extremely careful. I will re-draw my next wpt with each lobster pot maneuver if necessary, and it is very, very often necessary to re-draw that course to avoid solid granite.....
I suppose in the Chess when all you hit is soft mud, who cares, but in the North East when you find bottom it matters...
Your way point was X, you disengage to dodge something and the new "resume course" takes you straight over a ledge or shoal the original course did not. Heck Raymaine even disabled radar overlay based on GPS data because of legal issues...
If we as a nation stop suing at the drop of a hat perhaps we'd have more useful features....
Quite frankly I really, really, really dislike any steer to GPS feature yet customers demand it. I have it wired and 150% refuse to ever use it for coastal cruising.. IMHO it breeds complacency, causes owners to not pay as much attention as they should, and tends to lead to accidents. I plot a course on GPS then MANUALLY keep my vessel on that safe course with +1 or -1... This keep me paying attention to where I am 100% of the time. Course I sail in Maine where steer to GPS (read NOT PAYING ENOUGH ATTENTION) can be a boat sinking event... Steer to GPS here in Maine can be very dangerous if one is not extremely careful. I will re-draw my next wpt with each lobster pot maneuver if necessary, and it is very, very often necessary to re-draw that course to avoid solid granite.....
I suppose in the Chess when all you hit is soft mud, who cares, but in the North East when you find bottom it matters...
I am using an S3 with an E12 plotter and when diverting from a track I have a restart XTE command which recalculates a new track that is shown on the plotter as a dashed line to show you your new track. If you agree with the track, no obstructions on your track, you then press engage and the pilot assumes the new track.
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