Raymarine SPX-5 Wheel - Omitted functionality

[Skipper]

I used to have a tiller-steered boat, and had a Simrad TP-22 AP. The TP-22 was capable of resuming the last heading used in auto mode. You just held down the "auto" button a little longer, it would beep and then resume your last compass heading which typically meant you would have the same wind angle. This was fabulous when temporarily changing course to avoid another boat, etc. I now have a wheel-steered boat, and have recently installed a new SPX-5 with P70 head. Apparently, the SPX-5 does not have this feature(?) but instead requires that you point the boat again until you have your previously perfect heading, then re-engage. -I don't have wind track ability on the SPX-5, nor did I have it on the TP-22.

(This issue was subsequently resolved by Stu later in the thread)The TP-22 was also capable of not using cross-track error if you wanted to re-engage track mode without having to veer way off course to catch the old track line. This is very usable considering that the veer causes the boat to come out of the wind drastically. Cross-track correction when re-engaging might be good for a powerboat, but is useless and aggravating when sailing. I have to clear the waypoint from the GPS, and then re-initialize from the beginning. That is, if I engage track mode, I cannot disengage the AP until I am at the destination, without causing the above problems. Why would I not have the option to create a new track line when re-engaging to point to a waypoint?

How can a "state of the art" sailboat autopilot not have basic sailboat navigation functionality? Am I missing something? I submitted the questions to Raymarine, and have been ignored, so I guess there's no remedy - they just omitted basic sailing functionality. I read that older RM AP's had theses features.

 

[jviss]

How can a "state of the art" sailboat autopilot not have basic sailboat navigation functionality?

When something seems contradictory, question your premises. This is not a state-of-the-art sailboat autopilot. This is a bare-bones, albeit high-priced, pilot.

It's unfortunate that Raymarine lost the resume function that existed in the Autohelm units they acquired. My Autohelm AH4000 had a resume function, invoked with a double-press of AUTO (two presses within 2 secs of each other).

My supposedly more modern S2G, which was also Autohelm-developed, does not have the resume function. I presume the SPX-5 is of the same lineage as the S2G.

Have you tried the same command as the AH4000, pressing AUTO twice, just to see what happens?

 

[Skipper]

Have you tried the same command as the AH4000, pressing AUTO twice, just to see what happens?

Yeah, it just beeps at me. Doesn't resume old heading - stays on new heading initiated by the 1st press of the button. If I try to hold it down a-la TP-22, it beeps a lot at me.

It really tees me off that they would eliminate basic functionality just so they can sell an "upgraded" system. With the Simrad, they tried to put as much functionality as they could in a little tiller pilot, so as to make a good product.

This is my 1st and last Raymarine product, for this and other reasons.

 

[jviss]

I feel your pain. I have a love/hate relationship with Raymarine, which has tipped more to the hate side over the years.

I like the B&G stuff, which is from Navico, who own Lowrance and Simrad, too.

But, I'm sure there are bugs and annoyances with all of them.

 

[Claude L.-Auger]

I too have the SPX-5 and have found several issues that annoy me. Jviss is right that it is a high priced unit that does not fulfill all of its promises. As for returning to the original track I have found that the easiest way when avoid a boat is to hit the - 10 or + 10 degrees once or twice, taking the boat 10 or 20 degrees to port or starboard. When wanting to resume course, I just hit the opposite - or + 10 once or twice (same as original move) and the AP takes the boat back on its original course. If someone finds a better way i'd like to know.

 

[Skipper]

I too have the SPX-5 and have found several issues that annoy me. Jviss is right that it is a high priced unit that does not fulfill all of its promises. As for returning to the original track I have found that the easiest way when avoid a boat is to hit the - 10 or + 10 degrees once or twice.

Yep, but there are soooo many other reasons to disengage the AP. Like if the wind pipes up and I have to furl or reef (usually furl), and temporarily turn the boat up into the wind. Or if I just want to go in a different direction for awhile. Or make a sandwich. Or anything. Then when I'm set to go, I have to sit there like an idiot and clear the GPS waypoint, wait for the AP to time out on the waypoint, then find and reset the waypoint, engage the AP, hit the "track" button, then hit ok again when it complains about turning to the track line. The alternative is to try to sail 45 to 90 degrees back to the track line, the course arbitrarily chosen by the AP, which requires resetting the sails completely, if the wind is actually in a direction that's do-able.

Not to mention (again) that I can't even resume a compass heading.

An idiotic autopilot, advertised as high tech.

 

[jviss]

Why use a GPS waypoint at all, if that's the case? Just use the AP to steer to a compass heading. Resetting to the same heading after a dodge is not so bad.

 

[Skipper]

Why use a GPS waypoint at all, if that's the case? Just use the AP to steer to a compass heading. Resetting to the same heading after a dodge is not so bad.

I'm tracking towards my ultimate destination. For now, the destination is usually back to the harbor many miles away after a day of sailing, but in the future it will be many destinations. If I use the compass, I have to chart my course on paper. This removes much of the reason to have a GPS. I mean, why have waypoints if you're not going to use them? Why have an AP that connects to a GPS if you can't use the waypoints?

 

[jviss]

I'm confused. If the waypoint is far away, and you disengage the pilot to dodge something, why do you have to clear the old waypoint, wait for the AP to forget it, and set a new one? Why not just GO to the waypoint from where you are?

 

[Jackdaw]

Why use a GPS waypoint at all, if that's the case? Just use the AP to steer to a compass heading. Resetting to the same heading after a dodge is not so bad.

I have to agree with this. Steering to a WP is really a powerboat function. On sailboats, 99% or your AP work should be to a compass direction based on sailtrim, or an apparent wind direction. You work your way to your destination based on what the wind is doing. During a 4 hour watch with the AP driving I'll adjust it 0-20 times, depending on conditions.

But, I suppose everyone's needs are different.

 

[Skipper]

I'm confused. If the waypoint is far away, and you disengage the pilot to dodge something, why do you have to clear the old waypoint, wait for the AP to forget it, and set a new one? Why not just GO to the waypoint from where you are?

Because, as I said previously, the AP is not capable of doing that. It wants to go find the old track line first. I WANT do go to the waypoint from where I am, but it won't let me.

 

[Skipper]

I have to agree with this. Steering to a WP is really a powerboat function. On sailboats, 99% or your AP work should be to a compass direction based on sailtrim, or an apparent wind direction. You work your way to your destination based on what the wind is doing. During a 4 hour watch with the AP driving I'll adjust it 0-20 times, depending on conditions.

But, I suppose everyone's needs are different.

Incorrect. Because the AP compensates for leeway, current, etc when in track mode. You only have to keep the sails trimmed.

It may be that you can't use the direct waypoint depending on wind direction, but it sure is nice to use when I can, which is much of the time. Also, you can chart a course on the plotter if the wind(etc) requires it, to tack at the appropriate waypoints, and have the AP follow your course to the ultimate destination. Unless, of course, you want to disengage the AP, then you have to fumble with it as previously mentioned, to get it back to your desired waypoint course.

 

[jviss]

I see you posted this on the Raymarine technical support forum. Any action from them yet?

I would think the "follow-heading resume" function would be easy to do, and valuable.

 

[Skipper]

Let me just clear this up a little:

My Simrad did exactly what a sailboat AP should do. If I wanted to go to a GPS waypoint, I told it to go and it would hit the waypoint exactly, even if it were 40 miles away, and regardless of wind direction. All I had to do was handle the sails. I could do this an infinite number of times, regardless of what I was doing previously, without monkeying with the GPS, etc. All I had to do was push the button.

It would also resume a compass heading if I asked it to.

The Raymarine, 8 years newer and twice the cost, can't do those things. That's my complaint. That's the whole conversation. It doesn't matter why I want to do these things, the fact is that Simrad and others saw fit to include this basic sailboat functionality, which I'm sure many thousands of sailors use, and Raymarine omitted it.

 

[jviss]

...have recently installed a new SPX-5 with P70 head. Apparently, the SPX-5 does not have this feature(?)

So, we obviously can't help you. I can appreciate the need to vent, though.

My questions:

1. Why didn't you install a Simrad pilot instead of Raymarine?
2. Did you read the SPX-5 manual before you bought it?

 

[Jackdaw]

Incorrect. Because the AP compensates for leeway, current, etc when in track mode. You only have to keep the sails trimmed.

It may be that you can't use the direct waypoint depending on wind direction, but it sure is nice to use when I can, which is much of the time. Also, you can chart a course on the plotter if the wind(etc) requires it, to tack at the appropriate waypoints, and have the AP follow your course to the ultimate destination. Unless, of course, you want to disengage the AP, then you have to fumble with it as previously mentioned, to get it back to your desired waypoint course.

Skiper,

I can kind of see your point. For me I so rarely sail directly at my next destination (way-point); depending on wind forecasts via GRIBS I'll be up or down off the rhumline. But everyone's needs and conditions are different, and you seem to understand yours well. I have know idea why RAY does not offer it.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Probably because Simrad stopped making wheel pilots several years ago. I'm curious why they stopped selling them when there seemed to be a devoted market segment. It seems to me, Raymarine has the ONLY wheel pilot on the market now, no?

Without competitors, no wonder the price of Raymarine units is high ... surprising they aren't more costly, but I suppose they don't want to admit an opening in the market they seem to have captured.

 

[Skipper]

So, we obviously can't help you. I can appreciate the need to vent, though.

My questions:

1. Why didn't you install a Simrad pilot instead of Raymarine?
2. Did you read the SPX-5 manual before you bought it?

"Why didn't you install a Simrad pilot instead of Raymarine?" - Simrad doesn't make a wheel pilot. You have to spend $4,000 plus installation for a Simrad pilot. I assumed (my error) that Raymarine would have basic functionality.

"Did you read the SPX-5 manual before you bought it?" That's a very good point. And yes I did. I do that with every electronic piece I analyze for purchasing (that's how I knew that the RM A65 chartplotter is not compatible with NMEA 0183, and didn't buy it). I didn't think to look for the stated functionality, as I assumed those types of things were a given. I mean, why would they omit them? It just didn't enter my mind, until I noticed it missing. Like buying a Honda Accord, and then noticing there's no way to adjust the seat.

 

[Skipper]

Probably because Simrad stopped making wheel pilots several years ago. I'm curious why they stopped selling them when there seemed to be a devoted market segment. It seems to me, Raymarine has the ONLY wheel pilot on the market now, no?

Without competitors, no wonder the price of Raymarine units is high ... surprising they aren't more costly, but I suppose they don't want to admit an opening in the market they seem to have captured.

Yeah, you're right. It's the only wheel pilot. I don't understand why either. I hesitated for a long time getting an AP when I bought this boat, due to cost. But I really need one when sailing single hand, especially with an old boat that has lines at the mast, a choppy bay to sail in that moves the boat around a lot when you're trying to handle sails, etc. So when the P70 control head came out, I thought I was getting the ultra high tech AP in an affordable package. I mean, that's how they market it. And there are many high tech improvements and functions - they just left out 2 of the old ones that were very usable.

 

[jviss]

Yea, I can see that happening. I didn't know "resume" was gone when I went from my AH4000 to the much more expensive and complicated S2G/ST6000+ belowdecks autopilot. I just assumed that, since it had the same pushbutton layout as the AH4000, and that the S2G was developed by Autohelm, that a double-press of AUTO would resume. Bad assumption.

I didn't realize that Simrad was out of the wheel pilot biz. There's one small, obscure vendor:
http://cptautopilot.com/

I don't know that they're cheap, or even have the function you seek.

Bummer. I would recommend just sailing to a heading, and re-establishing that heading after dodging.