Alternative to a sheet bend?

[kpgraci]

I’ve always used a sheet bend to temporarily join two lines, usually of the same diameter. My faith in the sheet bend was high, especially when noting it’s similarity in form to the bowline, if you take the two free ends and join them you have what looks to me like a bowline. Both the sheet bend and the bowline grip the line harder as more load is applied.

When rigging up a bridle to raise my mast I used a sheet bend on some braided line I bought for the purpose and was surprised when under load it simply slipped apart. The particular line I used may be at fault in that it had a tendency to shrink in diameter as load was applied, but the experience left me wary of using the sheet bend in any critical applications.

I then found the carrick bend. Most description say it is seldom used due to its complexity to tie, but I found it no more difficult than the sheet bend. It’s structure seems inherently more secure than the sheet bend but I’ve done no testing of its capabilities.

So what do you use to temporarily join two lines of the same diameter? If a sheet bend do you secure the free ends? Anyone use the carrick bend? Alternatives?

Considering a failed line will cause at a minimum equipment damage and at worst death, I’d like to get it right.

 

[RichH]

The sheet bend can 'trip'
The bowline can 'trip'.
The carrick bend can 'trip' and can become jammed.
Any knot that can trip is dangerous

The little known USNavy "Rosendahl Zeppelin Bend" wont trip, is impossible to untie under load yet is easy to untie when unloaded and is stronger that most other knots ..... and is a variant of the 'choice' mountain climber's 'alpine butterfly'. http://www.animatedknots.com/zeppelin/

For secure and strong knots look at those which are variants of the 'figure of eight'. Predominantly, most all 'important' knots used by mountain climbers are variants of the 'figure of eight'.

For the sheet bend to make it more secure, you can 'wind' several turns around the standing part, similar as to how to make a bowline 'more secure' ('the rabbit goes around the tree several times before going back down the hole').

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

Rich is referring to a Double Sheet Bend. I've never had a double trip once snugged down. To be even more sure, throw a half hitch with the free ends.

For end knots, such as halyards to sail, I use a Buntline Hitch, but after loading, it's difficult to untie.

 

[tkanzler]

For secure and strong knots look at those which are variants of the 'figure of eight'. Predominantly, most all 'important' knots used by mountain climbers are variants of the 'figure of eight'.

I don't remember what it's called, but for such applications I tie what amounts to a figure 8 stopper knot, very loose, then thread the other line from the free end, and follow the original knot essentially backwards. I use it mostly because it's easy to remember - tie a figure 8, then thread the other line back through it, following the original sequence in reverse.

There are others, more difficult to tie, but I've never had what I do slip or move at all, for the infrequent times I've used it. I believe it's only suitable for lines of similar size and construction.

 

[kpgraci]

I like the looks of the Zeppelin Bend. I think I'll retire the sheet bend and add the zeppelin bend to my collection.

I use the Alpine Butterfly to make loops all the time (like for a trucker's hitch), its one of my favorite knots to tie.

The Buntline hitch is also one of my favorites, but it is more or less a permanent knot (I use it for halyards).

 

[russlmiller]

Figure eight follow through every time. Keeps me from falling of cliffs too

 

[RichH]

Be very careful with the Zeppelin bend/hitch as if you tie it 'backwards' it becomes the very inferior and much weaker 'hunters bend'.

 

[tkanzler]

I don't remember what it's called, but for such applications I tie what amounts to a figure 8 stopper knot, very loose, then thread the other line from the free end, and follow the original knot essentially backwards.

Figure eight follow through every time. Keeps me from falling of cliffs too

Well, whadayaknow, it's actually called a 'Figure 8 Bend', or 'Flemish Bend'. I guess that wasn't so hard to remember, though I didn't remember it. And it's listed on Grog's site under the Search and Rescue section.

http://www.animatedknots.com/fig8jo...ge=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

 

[bffatcat]

Bowlines & Sheet bends

Ive been tying the above two knots for over 50 years I use bowlines on my jib sheets and a sheet bend which is very similar to a bowline to tie 2 pieces of line of equal length together. In 50 years I have never had either knot slip I also tie a fisherman`s knot to join two pieces
of unequal line together, but its not so easy to untie

 

[Bill Roosa]

I use bowlines for most anything except fenders.
I don't use the rabbit hole method as I find it takes two hands and is not at all intuative.
take the running end in your palm, rotate your palm inward to form a loop away from your hand. Reach through the loop and grab the running end, let go of the loop. you are now holding the location of the knot. the bitter end is the bowline loop and tail. Pick a spot between the knot and the better end that is the size of the loop you want and provides a sufficient tail so it will not "trip". Run the bitter end along your 'knot hand fingers, under the line (knot) to that spot. pull on all three lines (two at a time) to secure the knot.
I find this especially useful when tieing myself off after going overboard. Loop the line behind me. make the knot in one had and then bring the bitter end around me to the knot and I'm fast to the knot. Can also be done with eyes closed and in the dark!!!!

 

[Gunni]

Well, whadayaknow, it's actually called a 'Figure 8 Bend', or 'Flemish Bend'. I guess that wasn't so hard to remember, though I didn't remember it. And it's listed on Grog's site under the Search and Rescue section.

http://www.animatedknots.com/fig8jo...ge=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

Also comes apart easily after you unload it. Figure8 w/stopper knots is how I was taught to connect two climbing ropes.

 

[saltysailor]

Rosendahl aka Zeppelin bend is a great knot and symmetrical.

 

[tkanzler]

Also comes apart easily after you unload it. Figure8 w/stopper knots is how I was taught to connect two climbing ropes.

The big advantage to me is that it's hard to mess up, and I can remember it. I can mess up a bowline once in a while, and I've been tying them since cubscouts (Hogan's Heroes and Get Smart were on the toob around then).