Martec folder destroyed by neighbor's electrical problem
- Thread starter fstbttms
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What would you estimate the time it took to cause the damage?
I know this comment will bring out all the 'internet experts' but I've long been an advocate of GFCI and/or ELCI protection - and here's the kicker - in lieu of AC+DC ground bonding to minimize stray current corrosion.
I know this comment will bring out all the 'internet experts' but I've long been an advocate of GFCI and/or ELCI protection - and here's the kicker - in lieu of AC+DC ground bonding to minimize stray current corrosion.
I was told by my client that the offending boat had a malfunctioning inverter. That's all I know about the cause of this situation. I'm not in the least concerned with whether or not you think this thread is "missing some critical facts."
So you don't care if your post can be very misleading with nothing but an implausible hypotheticaL...
It's important to the rest of us.
You think the pictures I posted illustrate an "implausible hypothetical?"
I've given all the information I have. What I don't care about is your opinion.
Gotta love the Internet, I mean who cares about facts when you can post hearsay. The truth of the matter is the boat with damage likely had issues as well, if it was properly set up it would have been protected. Takes two to tango! For metal to be removed the currant would be flowing from the propeller to something else. I suspect there is more to this than stated. The only times I have this kind of damage the problem turned out to be on the boat with the problem.
See, what you don't understand (in your rush to be the smartest guy in the room) is that I dive this boat on a regular basis. So I can tell you that it did not have an issue before. Not to mention that the two boats to his right also lost their running gear.
Please read the thread before you add your $.02.
Maybe we can talk about the real issue??
Well, for me I'd like to thank Fastbottoms for the picture and the topic. It's still a significant issue both in terms of safety and expense. Looking at the prop and shaft I'm guessing about $1200 - $1500 on a good day for repair and unless other measures are taken there's no guaranty it won't happen again.
Fastbottoms, did you notice any tingling while you were taking the pictures?
(speaks to the magnitude of the stray current)
Well, for me I'd like to thank Fastbottoms for the picture and the topic. It's still a significant issue both in terms of safety and expense. Looking at the prop and shaft I'm guessing about $1200 - $1500 on a good day for repair and unless other measures are taken there's no guaranty it won't happen again.
Fastbottoms, did you notice any tingling while you were taking the pictures?
(speaks to the magnitude of the stray current)
They way this issue was discovered was a buddy of mine was cleaning the Pearson Triton two slips away. He just happened to notice that the blades on its prop were gone (and in fact, there was so little of the hub left he initially wasn't sure what he was looking at.) So he swam over to look at the Albin 28 between his client and mine. Told me his cheeks started tingling and that's when he decided it was not safe to approach further. The Albin is the boat with the inverter problem and his fairly substantial running gear was severely damaged.
In any event, the Albin had been hauled before I dived my client's boat. So no electrical issues for me in the water.
Roger that.
Do you know if your client or those of your buddy will pursue claims against the Albin? Maybe insurance is on the hook? I'm guessing it's a long shot you'd be aware but if you 'hear' of any further developments please follow up.
At least for me.
Do you know if your client or those of your buddy will pursue claims against the Albin? Maybe insurance is on the hook? I'm guessing it's a long shot you'd be aware but if you 'hear' of any further developments please follow up.
At least for me.
My buddy was not injured so will not pursue any legal action. My client tells me that the Albin owner's insurance has agreed to cover the Triton repairs and assumes they will for his as well (which is why I took the pix yesterday.)
fstbttms thanks for your input but I did read the post and the only fact you provided is that the information is hearsay. You yourself said your information is second hand. You have since provided a bit more information but not enough to know what really happened. The photos are interesting but without any knowledge of what really happened it is all just guessing. I would also be interested in knowing more but lets not just assume. You mention your buddy got socked? You yourself have pointed out this does not happen often or at all in salt water in other posts and other forums. So I would like to know more facts. Was this salt or fresh water? There is a real trend for most owners to always say it was the other guys fault and in my experience it almost never is. That said it sometimes truly is. But to post with no facts or first hand knowledge is just as I said hearsay and does more to enforce misinformation than real useful information. I still think had the other boats been properly set up they would not have suffered this type of damage but that is just an opinion based on what little information I have. This is not galvanic corrosion it is stray current corrosion and there are ways to protect your boat from this type of damage. Would love to know more about the failure that lend to this and the damage to the other boats. Maybe you can do some more checking and let us know the whole story that would be interesting.
No, once again you failed to pay attention to what I said. I have never said a swimmer can't get shocked in saltwater. What I said was that Electric Shock Drownings are rare in saltwater.
Captain Wayne,
As for the salt or fresh water question, I guess it's not enough to know this occurred in San Francisco Bay and therefore is certainly salt water.
And talk about vague,
This is reminiscent of a recent thread about boat construction materials. Even first hand knowledge and experience wasn't enough for some.
As for the salt or fresh water question, I guess it's not enough to know this occurred in San Francisco Bay and therefore is certainly salt water.
yet the Albin's insurance company is satisfied enough to pay off on the claims. Are we second guessing the insurance adjuster too?
And talk about vague,
I don't remember anyone ever suggesting this was galvanic corrosion. Instead of hinting at it, what would you do to your boat to properly protect it from stray current corrosion? I made a suggestion early in the thread, what's your plan? Is your plan ABYC compliant? Mine isn't.
This is reminiscent of a recent thread about boat construction materials. Even first hand knowledge and experience wasn't enough for some.
The complete story would be interesting and we don't have it. How can one "protect from this type damage" when we do not know what caused the damage in the first place?
We do not know the metals involved - manganese bronze propellers will fall apart under circumstances where Nibral will not. Evidently an AC leak was involved, however the myth is AC does not cause metal damage. Fast did not say -- but there probably would be no zinc left on the prop/shaft assembly of any of the two neighbor boats. If they are bonded then were the through hulls effected? If they are not effected - then perhaps AC can cause damage in certain metals or there was a DC fault too.
Obviously the insurers of the offending boat know exactly what happened whereas we do not. There are too many unknowns to support the opinion that a "proper setting up" would have avoided the damage.
Charles
We do not know the metals involved - manganese bronze propellers will fall apart under circumstances where Nibral will not. Evidently an AC leak was involved, however the myth is AC does not cause metal damage. Fast did not say -- but there probably would be no zinc left on the prop/shaft assembly of any of the two neighbor boats. If they are bonded then were the through hulls effected? If they are not effected - then perhaps AC can cause damage in certain metals or there was a DC fault too.
Obviously the insurers of the offending boat know exactly what happened whereas we do not. There are too many unknowns to support the opinion that a "proper setting up" would have avoided the damage.
Charles
Holy Crap ........................
A number of years ago I was moored in a real garbage dump of a marina near Vancouver. It was loaded with neglected stink potters. Many of them only a few years old. The owner's attitude was the problem with these boats. Anyways, moving along, I had noticed heavy wear on my zincs and moved up to three shaft zincs. They were still there after a year but badly chewed up. I finally got out of the dump to another marina but I've always kept three zincs even though they last about two years. May only replace one of the more worn zincs after a year. Shaft and prop are still in pristeen condition.
After seeing this incident, there is NO WAY IN HELL I'm going back to two zincs. All I need is for some idiot powerboater to move in next to me and start causing corrosion problems. He doesn't care about his boat and he definitely doesn't care about yours. There is nothing you can do about these morons except keep away from them.
And don't bother telling me about being "overzinced" on a fiberglass hull unless you produce the chemical equation to back up this old wive's tale.
Thanks for the reminder Fast, crap happens when you least expect it.
................ regardless of the surrounding circumstances, it happened. Looks like the boat was moored in battery acid.
A number of years ago I was moored in a real garbage dump of a marina near Vancouver. It was loaded with neglected stink potters. Many of them only a few years old. The owner's attitude was the problem with these boats. Anyways, moving along, I had noticed heavy wear on my zincs and moved up to three shaft zincs. They were still there after a year but badly chewed up. I finally got out of the dump to another marina but I've always kept three zincs even though they last about two years. May only replace one of the more worn zincs after a year. Shaft and prop are still in pristeen condition.
After seeing this incident, there is NO WAY IN HELL I'm going back to two zincs. All I need is for some idiot powerboater to move in next to me and start causing corrosion problems. He doesn't care about his boat and he definitely doesn't care about yours. There is nothing you can do about these morons except keep away from them.
And don't bother telling me about being "overzinced" on a fiberglass hull unless you produce the chemical equation to back up this old wive's tale.
Thanks for the reminder Fast, crap happens when you least expect it.
Ok I guess I was not saying things right but I am not here to start an argument or put anyone down. I was just wondering about the facts. The problem I see is that most boaters are quick to blame the boat next to them I hear this all the time. The problem with this other than building bad feelings is that owners often do not look for problems on their own boats and just point fingers. this of course does not help solve the problem. The only reason I mention this as stray currant rather then galvanic is just to clarify not to suggest someones else was wrong. As for the shock hazard in salt water I was just trying to clarify that issue as well. It takes very little current to kill a person in the water so I was interested in this.
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