A different anchor question

[Ken Cross]

I notice most anchors are sold by boat length. It seems to me that windage and weight may be of more value than boat length. I am thinking about adding an anchor (currently only carry a Danforth with 25 feet of chain that I can hardly pull up out of the sand. No windless. The Danforth has never failed to hold us and I would likely put it down if I expected a big blow).

Having said that if an anchor is good for a power boat, do I need more, or less for a sailboat?

I also notice most folks market an anchor for up to 25 feet then up to 35 feet. I'm at 28 feet and a bit over 6,000 lbs, which I think is a lot easier to hold than a 35 footer.
I'm trying to figure out a way to get an easier to retrieve anchor for overnight in good conditions.

 

[Tom J]

You are right that there other things to consider, like windage and weight, when sizing an anchor. I generally go one size bigger than the manufacturer's recommendation. I usually use a Delta with all-chain rode, but I also use a Bruce or Fortress on 20' of chain with nylon rode. Different anchors for different bottoms and conditions. You might want to try another type of anchor and see how it works for you. Experience is the best way to find what you like. Can't have too many anchors on board, you know!

 

[Stu Jackson]

There are many "variables" in selecting an anchor. But I humbly suggest that you consider your entire anchoring SYSTEM. You know, the old weak link in the chain" thingie.

Like this, your boat, your choice.

Anchor System Sizing Tables (Reply #6) http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4990.0.htmlhttp://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4990.msg30400.html#msg30400

 

[Ken Cross]

Interesting link. Thanks. It does answer some questions I had about my 1/2 inch rode which is clearly my weakest link. I just don't like dragging the anchor up when I've buried it on the bottom. It's tough on the body and I'm not sure I could do it if I were 10 years older. In fact one time I had to snub it off and motor to break it loose. I could add a windless, but I'm not sure I want to put more $$$ into this old boat. I also don't have a chain locker that will accept the output of a windless.

I guess I need a bigger boat/moorage/maintenance/bank account
Ken

 

[capta]

Perhaps you could use a cockpit or mast winch to help you pull your anchor up when needed? If our windlass failed, we could use one of our Lewmar 65's in a pinch. I'm sure your genoa winches would do as well.

 

[tkanzler]

I also notice most folks market an anchor for up to 25 feet then up to 35 feet. I'm at 28 feet and a bit over 6,000 lbs, which I think is a lot easier to hold than a 35 footer.
I'm trying to figure out a way to get an easier to retrieve anchor for overnight in good conditions.

Most anchor manufacturers seem to show boat length a bit on the big side for a given anchor size. Rocna, on the other hand, says in their literature that they recommend sizes based on worst-case loading. Who you should believe, I couldn't say, but I personally favor going up a size.

So having said that, if a particular anchor is supposedly good for 25 to 35 feet, I wouldn't go down from there. Sailboats tend to be narrower and lower than power boats of the same length, but I'm not sure I'd want to lawyer the specs in the middle of the night when a squall is screaming through the rigging, and you can't see a thing.

If the issue is anchor retrieval, perhaps using a trip line would solve your problem. Lots of designs have an extra hole just for that purpose. Put a buoy on it if you like so it doesn't have to be too long, or run it back to the boat, but a small trip line to pull the anchor out the way it went in might be all you need. I don't know if the lightweight Fortress anchors will take such a line, but the claw will, as well as many others.

And speaking of the claw, my last boat had a 22 lb claw (34 ft sailboat), which was about the max boat size recommended for that size claw anchor, and it never dragged (sand and mud bottoms), even in squalls. It looked kind of small on the bow roller, but it always held. If I was going to buy a claw for that boat, I'd have gone up to the 33 lb, but for your 28 footer, it's probably just right. Takes a retrieval line, too. But even 22 lb is likely more weight than what you have now, as fluke anchors are pretty light for their size.

Edit: Thinking about it, if you're happy with the way the Danforth works for you, then maybe the aluminium Fortress 7 lb would be what you want. Similar size to the Danforth, but much lighter, and therefore easier to retrieve. Keep the other for a backup, ready to deploy if need be. In a really bad blow, you can always use more than one anchor.

 

[sailaway78]

Make it easier

I use a 35# CQR for most applications, which is the recommended size for my boat. But if any undue conditions are present, I use a 44# Delta, and have used the two together. I am nearing 75 yo, and do not have a windlass. We have a lot of soft, muddy bottom around here, and it would be virtually impossible for me to just pull mine up physically. What I do is pull it up till the rode is as close to straight down as possible, crank up the engine and motor off. This breaks it out. I also usually motor off for 100 yards or so, hopefully to deeper water. Not only does motoring off make it super easy to break out, if you run 100 yards or so, it washes off most of the mud and crud, keeping it off the deck. Just make sure, you don't have enough rode left out to get into the prop when you take off.

 

[sailingandsuch]

I had a similar problem with my old Watkins 29. I had about 30' of chain and large danforth on it. I remember it was pretty darn tough to get the anchor at times, especially if the wind was howling (and I'm 25 and in pretty good shape, I could only imagine if I was 40+)

I found a simple solution to the problem!

I just bought a smaller boat that needed a smaller anchor, problem solved!

But of course there were other reasons that brought me from 29' and 10'6" beam to a 17'er. I think I made a very wise decision for the amount of sailing I do.

My solution may not work for your situation though.

 

[Stu Jackson]

There have been many times that I've dawdled in the cockpit on a nice morning only to realize that i should have pulled up to above the anchor as Nice described before the wind piped up. Regardless of how small your boat is, if the wind's up you'll need to motor up over your anchor, 'cuz you just can't pull it by hand against the wind. This was just as true for our C22 as it was and is for our C25 and C34.

 

[Merlin Clark]

When mine is good and buried I haul the rode until it's straight down and taunt then just wait for the motion of the boat to break it free.
Any anchor will only hold if its rode is at a gentle angle (scope) to the bottom. Take that angle away and sit with your libation of choice until it's free.

 

[Scott B]

Interesting link. Thanks. It does answer some questions I had about my 1/2 inch rode which is clearly my weakest link. I just don't like dragging the anchor up when I've buried it on the bottom. It's tough on the body and I'm not sure I could do it if I were 10 years older. In fact one time I had to snub it off and motor to break it loose. I could add a windless, but I'm not sure I want to put more $$$ into this old boat. I also don't have a chain locker that will accept the output of a windless.

I guess I need a bigger boat/moorage/maintenance/bank account
Ken

Do you want an anchor that will hold fast if it gets nasty or one that comes up easy..... don't think you'll get both in one anchor. I vote for the former.

We typically motor slowly up to the anchor and I'll cleat off the chain, then signal for my wife to put the engine in reverse, break out the anchor and then I'll haul it up to the boat. Makes it easy to pull up the anchor and I feel great knowing it's set very solid each time.

 

[Maine Sail]

I just don't like dragging the anchor up when I've buried it on the bottom. It's tough on the body and I'm not sure I could do it if I were 10 years older.

Ken,

Unfortunately you are going about retrieval all wrong. Don't make your body do the work, the boat can do 90% of it for you.

Use the motor to power into the direction of the rode then put it back in neutral and go to the bow and simply collect rode as the boats momentum moves you in its direction. If you need another burst, snub the rode, walk back to the cockpit and do it again.

When you get to about 1:1 scope (nearly vertical) snub the rode on the bow cleat. Now go back to the cock pit and use the motor to break the anchor from the bottom. Now walk back to the bow and lift the anchor the 10-20 feet off the bottom to the bow. The only "work" your body does is the 10'-20' lift of the anchor and some chain....

In fact one time I had to snub it off and motor to break it loose.

With a well set anchor this is how it should be every time..... If you can break your anchor free by hand..

#1 It was poorly set to begin with.

#2 It is a poor design for holding

I could add a windless, but I'm not sure I want to put more $$$ into this old boat. I also don't have a chain locker that will accept the output of a windless.

I guess I need a bigger boat/moorage/maintenance/bank account
Ken

We have a 36' boat and I think I have used the windlass perhaps once or twice in the last 6-7 years. We anchor sometimes two to four times per day when out cruising.... There is no way in hell I could break our anchor free by hand. It is backed down on at 80-100% reverse throttle with a 44HP diesel engine and three blade prop... Our boat does almost all the work, not me......

 

[Ken Cross]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the informative responses. I did look up my current anchor, and I see it's one size larger than the recommended (16 lb Danforth) coupled with 25 feet of chain. I did one time motor it out as suggested and that worked ok, but I just had to secure the chain somehow. Chain doesn't cleat well. I put a line on it and cleated the line. I'm thinking I'll bring a chain hook attached to a line for that purpose. I do however think I'll be adding another anchor (I just need to figure out how to stow it.) My anchor locker is designed for a flat anchor. It's only about 4 or 5 inches deep.

Ken

 

[Stu Jackson]

Goo diea about the chain hook. We do just that: small line cleated off the a bow cleat with the hook used to hold the chain. Chain doesn't work well on cleats and is a bear to get off with a load on it.

 

[Benny17441]

Setting the anchor is one thing but burying it by strongly pulling in reverse may be unnecessary unless the boat is being anchored for an extended period of time or bad weather is anticipated. In my expereince I have had to use the engine to break the hold in just a handful of occasions with hundreds other times where it will pull out fairly easy. Perhaps review your anchoring technique. Don't know the average depths in which you anchor but pulling a heavy 25' of chain plus the anchor in over 25' of water can be quite difficult. Chain length is used to add weight to help the anchor set and maintain . To much weight can be unnecessary and even a hindrance in mild to fair conditions. I would say that you could use as little as 15' of 1/4" chain with a 7/16" rode on your 6000# boat succesfully for most conditions. This would require that you carry a heavier set for those few occassions where it may be needed. No need to be pulling the heavy artillery when a lunch hook might do the job.

 

[Scott B]

Setting the anchor is one thing but burying it by strongly pulling in reverse may be unnecessary unless the boat is being anchored for an extended period of time or bad weather is anticipated. In my expereince I have had to use the engine to break the hold in just a handful of occasions with hundreds other times where it will pull out fairly easy. Perhaps review your anchoring technique. Don't know the average depths in which you anchor but pulling a heavy 25' of chain plus the anchor in over 25' of water can be quite difficult. Chain length is used to add weight to help the anchor set and maintain . To much weight can be unnecessary and even a hindrance in mild to fair conditions. I would say that you could use as little as 15' of 1/4" chain with a 7/16" rode on your 6000# boat succesfully for most conditions. This would require that you carry a heavier set for those few occassions where it may be needed. No need to be pulling the heavy artillery when a lunch hook might do the job.

More than one occasion, I've woken to voices in the middle of the night to see boats drifting by in an unexpected thunderstorm or high winds. Cannot always predict the unpredictable. I will stand by setting my anchor secure for the night to get a good sleep and use the engine to easily break out the anchor in the morning.

 

[Maine Sail]

Setting the anchor is one thing but burying it by strongly pulling in reverse may be unnecessary unless the boat is being anchored for an extended period of time or bad weather is anticipated. In my expereince I have had to use the engine to break the hold in just a handful of occasions with hundreds other times where it will pull out fairly easy. Perhaps review your anchoring technique. Don't know the average depths in which you anchor but pulling a heavy 25' of chain plus the anchor in over 25' of water can be quite difficult. Chain length is used to add weight to help the anchor set and maintain . To much weight can be unnecessary and even a hindrance in mild to fair conditions. I would say that you could use as little as 15' of 1/4" chain with a 7/16" rode on your 6000# boat succesfully for most conditions. This would require that you carry a heavier set for those few occassions where it may be needed. No need to be pulling the heavy artillery when a lunch hook might do the job.

I will never anchor our boat without fully setting the hook by backing down at full throttle or damn near. Seen one to many boats on the rocks due to poor technique. Perhaps in areas where the shore is not so "hard", as in pure Maine granite, people worry less about dragging. Up here the weather can change quickly and unexpectedly and when you hit shore or the shallows you are often doing thousands of dollars in damage because it is solid rock......

If my anchor comes out, by just me pulling on it, I have simply been an irresponsible skipper..... With the new generation of high performance anchors they usually require the vessel or a windlass to break them free, even if you did not back down hard....