a few useful mods/additions finished up....

[centerline]

Really nice stainless work you have done Centerline. I assume you must move the rode straight into the anchor chocks as some as the anchor is deployed?

nothing has to be moved or relocated to deploy or retrieve.... for demonstration purposes, I have a line tied to the anchor in the photos. I only use 10' of chain and the weight of the anchor keeps it off the deck fairly well.... I have not used this one other than driveway trials, as its newly installed but this is the same set up as I used on my other boat and it worked very well and the anchor was even lighter.....

I purchased a suncor stainless quick lock pin for my forestay attachment to the stem fitting so as to make it quicker than a pin and ring-ding when rigging it, the quick lock pins are cold worked so they are very strong with the 5/16 at a 7200lb working load limit.... carr-lane Ball lock pin is another brand, but I like the one I bought with the recessed ball release button...

 

[centerline]

Really nice stainless work you have done Centerline. I assume you must move the rode straight into the anchor chocks as some as the anchor is deployed?

I forgot to add that the anchor work (deploy/retrieve) is all done from the cockpit, not the deck.
although, if a person wanted to, they could do it from the deck just as well...

 

[Cruiser1]

nothing has to be moved or relocated to deploy or retrieve.... for demonstration purposes...............

Very impressive work centerline, and inspiration to all!!

Just wondering how much strain is on the end of that extension where the rode goes over the final roller?

.........I purchased a suncor stainless quick lock pin for my forestay attachment to the stem fitting so as to make it quicker than a pin and ring-ding when rigging it, the quick lock pins are cold worked so they are very strong with the 5/16 at a 7200lb working load limit.... carr-lane Ball lock pin is another brand, but I like the one I bought with the recessed ball release button........

I really like that pin your have used on the forestay - I don't think you can do overkill with things like that - if nothing else it give great peace of mind when conditions go pear-shaped at sea.

I forgot to add that the anchor work (deploy/retrieve) is all done from the cockpit, not the deck. although, if a person wanted to, they could do it from the deck just as well...

Way to go and much easier for breaking anchors out when they are stuck - takes all the back bending out of it.

- can't put too many smiles on all of that

 

[RonRock]

Anchor system looks great.

So do the bow lights. Can you tell me about them? Do they have the proper beam angle? LED? Happy with them? And where can I get a set?

 

[centerline]

Just wondering how much strain is on the end of that extension where the rode goes over the final roller?

the strain on the final roller at the forward end.... the strain that will be placed on the boat on a normal anchorage will be whatever the measured amount of strain at the pivot pin.... which is several inches behind the lead roller. I cant think of any situation where I would have a damaging side loading on it.... but I have it supported very well for about any situation i could think of.

RonRock; Anchor system looks great.

So do the bow lights. Can you tell me about them? Do they have the proper beam angle? LED? Happy with them? And where can I get a set?

do a search for seasense #50023887..... they are very common lights. they are stainless steel w/LED and there is another brand that is white and flat faced but turn color when they are on.... shark eye is another brand, but beware... they arent all LED models

the angle is determined somewhat by the angle of the hull... the seasense lights are designed to cover the required angle on most boats if they are mounted in the general location of where I mounted them.... i would have liked them a bit farther back, but my reg numbers are painted on rather than stickers, so it would have been difficult to move them to make room for the lights

to mount them, you need a hole saw to cut a recess as they protrude out the back a little. some folks would rather the light protrude out the front than cut a hole in their boat, but the lights are strongly built and look nice mounted this way....

 

[Cruiser1]

the strain on the final roller at the forward end.... the strain that will be placed on the boat on a normal anchorage will be whatever the measured amount of strain at the pivot pin.... which is several inches behind the lead roller. I cant think of any situation where I would have a damaging side loading on it.... but I have it supported very well for about any situation i could think of.........

Yes I was thinking, with my limited engineering ability, that that would be the case. Now you have explained it, and I have thought it through a bit more, I can see clearly how that would work - ie. the force mainly on the pivot pin with the tip having the same force regardless of its location. It is a very solid arrangement you have built and I must start thinking along those lines for my boat. I had been thinking about anchor winches and all sorts of other arrangements but like the simplicity and effectiveness of what you have designed Centerline - thanks.

 

[centerline]

Yes I was thinking, with my limited engineering ability, that that would be the case. Now you have explained it, and I have thought it through a bit more, I can see clearly how that would work - ie. the force mainly on the pivot pin with the tip having the same force regardless of its location. It is a very solid arrangement you have built and I must start thinking along those lines for my boat. I had been thinking about anchor winches and all sorts of other arrangements but like the simplicity and effectiveness of what you have designed Centerline - thanks.

Anchor winches... no matter how you draw the rode in, the roller set up is what makes the system work smoothly. some fixed roller setups will hold the anchor even when you let go of the rode to deploy, so that you need to go on deck and kick the anchor loose.....

the problem is, there are no "affordable" anchor rollers on the "after market" that are really long enough to let the anchor clear the boat when deploying or retrieving. there needs to be enough room to be comfortable in all conditions..... a gouge in the hull is enough to ruin an otherwise great day on the water...

so you may not need or desire or end up with something quite like i built, but even if you go for the smaller anchor roller, self deploying or not, an extension (such as my stem fitting) will be needed to get the roller out board far enough to work as you would like it to without damage to the hull....
on my old boat, I purchased a regular fixed anchor roller and had a piece of 1/8th" stainless formed to the right dimensions for the boat mount that the roller would pivot on, and then cut, drilled, welded and fitted until I made it a self deploying system that was out away from the hull far enough...

and I finally got more pics posted to my 25 album for you to see.....

 

[Cruiser1]

Anchor winches... no matter how you draw the rode in, the roller set up is what makes the system work smoothly. some fixed roller setups will hold the anchor even when you let go of the rode to deploy, so that you need to go on deck and kick the anchor loose.....
.............................

Yes, what I was meaning was that instead of using an anchor winch to break an anchor out it would be much easier to be able to stay in the cockpit, work the anchor rode in or out as need be, and use forward and reverse on the motor as need be to break the anchor out instead. Just using your arrangement would be much better I think, as even with an anchor winch one often has to move the boat back and forward a bit just to get the anchor unstuck intially.

 

[Chris & Lenore]

Centreline,

Where did you get the stainless cut and formed? I plan to install an anchor roller similar to "Watermark" and require a piece of stainless cut and bent. The only place I know of is a chain called "The Metal Supermarket" but the prices are beyond belief.

The few small "fabricators" I called were not interested in such a small job.

Chris

 

[Sumner]

I'd like to throw out a couple things if I may. We anchor virtually every night we are on a trip so this is a very important subject for us.

I like the swivel bow roller Centerline has and considered buying or making a similar one but instead made...

...two bow rollers with two rollers on the nose to help in deployment and getting the anchor over the nose when retrieving. Above you can see the 2 rollers on each side with one lower than the other. It works very well, but what he has will also work as well or better so I would recommend one or the other and they are both available commercially. Since I was building mine the two rollers was simpler than trying to deal with the hinge on both sides.

I also made the bow rollers different lengths for the two different style anchors (Claw and Manson Supreme) to...

... make sure each cleared the hull as he mentioned so he has brought up a good point there. They are also supported as far forward....

...as I could but unlike his the pull on them is still slightly ahead of that support which I'll address below.

The Endeavour has bow rollers with a single roller and the anchors are a lot heavier (2 35 lb. anchors vs. the 22 and 25 lb. on the Mac) and getting them to come over the nose is a pain. We like the heavier anchors on the Mac vs. what most people use. If you are using a lighter anchor than what we are using it isn't as critical especially if you are at the bow. In the cockpit can be a different story. Our 2 roller bow rollers would work from the cockpit I'm pretty sure as they self-deploy.

Now on the cockpit vs. going to the bow. They both have advantages and disadvantages. I want at least 20-30 feet of chain on our anchors as it is more important than even the weight of the anchor as it helps to keep the pull on the anchor parallel with the bottom which helps to make it dig in. I'm now sure how you would handle that much chain from the cockpit. Even without the added chain you still have to store the rode back there somewhere. If you single-hand or only have two on the boat there is more room to do that but I'd like to keep the cockpit free of the rode and also like to have the deck free of chain and line as I go forward to put the pop-top cover on and mess with the anchor sail and topping lift at the mast.

If you are single-handing the boat or have problems going forward then being able to deal with the anchor from the cockpit would have advantages. One just needs to decide what their needs are. I have no problem going to the bow in about any weather we have been in. I like being up there if we are on water where I can see the bottom as I'll use hand signals to direct Ruth into an anchorage.

I would not be too concerned leaving the road on the bow roller with Centerlines bow roller as most of the downward force is at the pivot point as he has mentioned and that is braced below. If you use a more conventional bow roller where the weight is out on the nose I would not leave the line on in any conditions that might cause substantial waves and cause the boat to hobbyhorse up and down on the rode. If conditions are calm we will leave the rode on the bow roller. If we think they are going to deteriorate...

... then we move the line or lines around to the chocks. He also still has those chocks so they would be available to him also. If you don't have chocks you should for sure install them if you plan on anchoring at any time where you think you could be caught with bad weather.

We also fairly frequently put 2 anchors down. Either for weather conditions or because we want to be close to shore or another obstacle and don't want to swing.

I enjoy anchoring a lot and the different situations that it presents. Get good equipment and use it right and you can go to bed and sleep well. I've only once readjusted our anchor lines at night,

Sum

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[Chris & Lenore]

Summer, your post makes me wonder how many people leave the rode threaded thru their anchor roller when anchored out?

The roller I plan to add to Teliki will be along the lines of "Watermark" a 1/4 thick SS plate under the full length of the roller and extending about a foot behind ( to keep the chain off the fibreglass). The front will overshoot the bow by about 4 inches and will be bracketed to the bow. I will also have a substantial backing plate under it all.

Seems to me this should be strong - but - a bobbing bow can exert extreme loads and the roller arrangement is (in effect) a lever.

It's not a big deal to pull the rode through a chock and cleat it off, bypassing the roller. This can be done after anchoring and before departing, so the advantages of the roller are still there.

But I see so many power boats with tiny anchor rollers held to the fibreglass with only a few small bolts - do I really need to worry?

I also put two anchors out regardless of the weather forecast - I like to be able to sleep at night

Chris

 

[centerline]

Centreline,

Where did you get the stainless cut and formed? I plan to install an anchor roller similar to "Watermark" and require a piece of stainless cut and bent. The only place I know of is a chain called "The Metal Supermarket" but the prices are beyond belief.

The few small "fabricators" I called were not interested in such a small job.

Chris

Chris,
almost any sheet metal shop should be able to help you... or direct you to someone who can.
and i will add, when you talk to them on the phone about a small custom job like this, they tend to shy away.... make a rough drawing and go in and see them... it makes all the difference in the world and get a quote!...

For anyone who has the need for stainless or aluminum, do a local search for "recycle scrap yards" in your area... make a few phone calls and see what is available. you can get excellent material of about any size you need for about half the cost of new......

 

[centerline]

Sumner,
when I first saw your anchor roller set up I thought it was perfect and i wanted one. so i set out to build one kind of like it, but as i got into it things changed and I thought rather than build a one piece unit, i would build it in two parts, one for the left side, and one for the right side, so then they could be built at different times.... as i was building it, it somehow morphed into what it is now all this was done on my first boat. but i never got around to building the starboard side anchor roller...
the design worked so well on Allusion that when i wanted one on this boat, i designed it to run right down the centerline of the boat... and incorporate the stem fitting into it.... so it had to be stronger and be able to take a load from any angle....

about the swivle/pivot.... as you are well aware, its extremely difficult to impossible to get an anchor shank over a fixed bow roller, depending on the angle of the pull on the rode.
but no matter what the weight of the anchor, when the roller is allowed to pivot, the angle of the shank entering over the lead roll is softened (and extremely variable with boat motion)... which is dependent on where the pivot is located between the rollers.
with the pivot at the proper spot and the heavier the anchor, the farther the lead roll will dip to allow access for the shank over the lead roll. with the pivot being farther back, the roller could tip way down and the shank could have almost a straight shot in over the roll without resistance, but then the lead over the second roller back will be sharper and its possible the anchor may be too bottom heavy for the whole apparatus to tilt back with a reasonable amount of force.
having the pivot out a bit allows for a better balance when working and stowed...

the "balance" being, the force of the rode pulling over the second roll as it tries to tip it back and lift the nose roll,... while the shank is against the nose roller pulling it down trying to gain some lead over it....... the pivot pin in the right spot will allow it to balance for its own needs as the anchor is drawn into it....
when I mentioned 'extremely variable with boat motion", i mean that when when the roller allowed to adjust itself, and the anchor swinging as it does when the boat has any motion, a very heavy anchor can be brought over the lead roll with very little more effort than it takes to hold it....

for the rode going to the cockpit....
I use a medium kitchen size rubbermaid trash container for my rode to lay in. when im weighing anchor it is in the cockpit so the rode can flake into it.
but when its not being needed for flaking, or when deploying, it sets in the cabin directly below the companionway (the 25 has a spot there that is mostly out of the way for whatever is stored there)
the 10 feet of chain i use works well with this set up, but for more secure anchoring in general, more chain would be better.

I have several thoughts about, "what if I wanted to add more chain?", and how i could manage it with this set up....
I could just go to the bow and do it like is normally done....
also thought about taking a piece of outdoor carpet that would snap down to the deck under the track of the chain/rode to protect the deck....

Or, i could install PVC tubes for the path of the rode.... this would keep the chain off the deck as it runs to the cockpit.
I think with a flared end fitting on the PVC tubes that they wouldnt need to be attached to anything, but just have the chain ran thru them. it would just ride the chain and float between the leads as the chain passed either way thru it. when i removed the rode, the tubes would be stowed and not on the deck....

with the delrin lead blocks i made, the chain runs around them about as easy as if it were a roller, and they will last a long time. (working delrin is about like working aluminum. its hard stuff for being plastic)

lots of ideas but I dont have a need for the chain yet... but I have thought about a 25lb weight to run down the rode when on a short scope or for more cushion if anchored in rough conditions. I know the security of chain can be beat, but i dont have the need for more chain YET....

And dont get me wrong,...I like being out working the foredeck also, but in rough conditions when the boat is dancing the wild fandango and the spray of the waves hitting the bow is a bit too refreshing, weighing the anchor from the cockpit is just better

 

[Sumner]

Summer, your post makes me wonder how many people leave the rode threaded thru their anchor roller when anchored out?

The roller I plan to add to Teliki will be along the lines of "Watermark" a 1/4 thick SS plate under the full length of the roller and extending about a foot behind ( to keep the chain off the fibreglass). The front will overshoot the bow by about 4 inches and will be bracketed to the bow. I will also have a substantial backing plate under it all.

Seems to me this should be strong - but - a bobbing bow can exert extreme loads and the roller arrangement is (in effect) a lever.

It's not a big deal to pull the rode through a chock and cleat it off, bypassing the roller. This can be done after anchoring and before departing, so the advantages of the roller are still there.

But I see so many power boats with tiny anchor rollers held to the fibreglass with only a few small bolts - do I really need to worry?

I also put two anchors out regardless of the weather forecast - I like to be able to sleep at night

Chris

View attachment 62729

The key is you still have the chock to use if things get bad. We don't always use it ourselves. There are tons of boats out there with small anchors and not appropriate rode, but most of them are day users and maybe stay out a night on a weekend and then you can feel pretty confident about the weather forcast. Just because they will do it doesn't mean we have to.

I think Walt has posted pictures of his boat on a mooring ball going way up and down and I've seen other youtubes on the internet. MrBill on here convinced me of the loads that can occur given the right situation and we have been there a couple times ourselves. Use the chock those times and you will be fine. It is easy to use the bow roller and anchor and then just pull the line around to the side through the chock.

Centerline I really like the hinge setup you have, so wasn't criticizing it ,

Sum

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[Doc_holiday]

Wow, I just learned a ton about anchors.... I had no idea...

So, I gather, no matter the set up, chocks are important. 1. To keep the rode or rope from wearing the fiberglass, and 2. To take the load off the bolts of the roller system.

I don't anchor for long other than a couple nights a year but that is due in part to not having the guts or the confidence in my anchor. It seems some sort of roller would be a good idea.

I hate all the mud and crap that gets on the deck, a roller would certainly eliminate this and obviously it gives a place to store the anchor. Deployment and recovery are not as important to me, but then again, I have no trouble doing that, the admiral or one of the kids would be a different story. I like the idea of the soft sided bags to keep the rope and chain in. I have considered cutting a hatch above the open space above the v berth for this, but a canvas bag seems smart without losing that foam that's in there. And I can just put the bag away when not in use. I would love to be able to confidently anchor in the Chesapeake to spend the night or just catch a few "z's" or a few fish.

I assume this would need to be made of stainless or aluminum. Wild West marine have anything that would work even if it required a little modification?

 

[Chris & Lenore]

I agree Sumner - use the chocks when it makes sense. I would probably chock the line as a matter of course when spending the night on the hook ( just like always putting out a second anchor). The times I didn't take extra precautions is when I should have!

Ever notice that bad weather, dragging anchor, etc. always happens between 1 and 3 am...

Chris

 

[MrBill_FLL]

when it REALLY gets rough I run the anchor lines through the bow eye and back to the center cleat. so I can let out scope or balance the lines as the wind shifts..

moving it down increases the scope and its so much stronger and much less bobbing ...


centerline, what is backing the anchor roller plate? and can you pin /lock the roller?

and the raceways and mast organizers are all thru bolted, right?

very nice work!

 

[centerline]

when it REALLY gets rough I run the anchor lines through the bow eye and back to the center cleat. so I can let out scope or balance the lines as the wind shifts..

moving it down increases the scope and its so much stronger and much less bobbing ...


centerline, what is backing the anchor roller plate? and can you pin /lock the roller?

and the raceways and mast organizers are all thru bolted, right?

very nice work!

MrBILL......for the back up on the roller i have a 1/4" aluminum plate, 8"x15".... plus the attachment at the front has backup plates behind them... the lower stem support is 1-1/2"wide X 5/16 thick.....

mast organizer is backed up with a 4.5" x 7", 3/16" stainless plate..... nothing will be pulled loose without taking a substantial portion of the boat with it.

not sure what you are referring to as a raceway, but you can bet its backed up securely also
EDIT; it came to me in my dreams last night,... raceway = deck organizer! yes its securely backed up. I also put a larger footprint stainless plate between it and the deck for better support as well as more sealing surface. so many bolts that close together on such a small footprint as an organizer can apply enough force to squeeze the fixture into the deck a bit... so better support on both sides is good.

at this time the roller does not pin lock up, it floats with the angle of the line. when weigh anchor and stow it in the roller, I just snug it up and cleat the rode.... it stays at the angle shown.
on my other boat I had it designed so I could run a pin thru the sides and thru the shank eye to hold it secure without a rode attached for trailering, with the anchor in its roller... it worked well.


Sumner, I never gave it a thought.... I was just giving additional info on what i was thinking when i built it like i did....

Doc_Holiday.... west marine sells anchor rollers, but what you need to make it work better is a mounting plate for it that extends it out a bit further.... and supported well so it doesnt damage the boat under severe strain....

with ANY roller, when you retrieve the anchor and get it up to the boat, let out about 6 or 8 feet, and then pull the rope in and let it fall back a bit, pull it in and let it fall back..... do this a few times and it will wash most of the mud off except for hard the clay.
if the anchor roller is away from the boat far enough to keep the anchor stowed there, a little clay on the anchor wont hurt if your going to deploy it again soon anyway....

 

[Sumner]

....with ANY roller, when you retrieve the anchor and get it up to the boat, let out about 6 or 8 feet, and then pull the rope in and let it fall back a bit, pull it in and let it fall back..... do this a few times and it will wash most of the mud off except for hard the clay.....

In our case with the two of us I'll get the anchor just below the surface and have Ruth start motoring away slowly and that usually takes off most of the mud.

The mud and wet rode is another reason we like the soft bags for storage that have the plastic inner liners with drain holes drilled into the bottoms. I leave them open if conditions are not bad for a while. The bags are tied on securely and the anchors are also ...

... pinned and ...

... tied off as well as the chain. You don't want any of this stuff going over the side underway,

Sum

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[vizwhiz]

Looks great! I have been thinking of the fuel lockers for my S boat...have talked to others about that but was concerned about leaks getting into the cabin...in all aluminum as you have it, though, probably wouldn't be an issue.
Do you have any support under the back of the insert for holding up the weight of two full cans, or does the support at the front hold it well enough??