boat wire

[sailormanbigd]

Just finished Maine's battery cable post in the archives. I am looking to purchase a fair amount of tinned wire-say 250-500ft black and red to wire up my Morgan 33outisland with. I know i should consult the wire sizing charts for to and return lengths and size accordingly for um less than 2%voltage drop i think? BUT what if I wanted a general purpose size wire for most everything in the boat. Cabin lights, 12 fans, 12 volt stereo, bilge pump, pressure water pump,etc. what would be the go to wire size to keep on the boat for hooking it all up? I heard 18ga is not allowed, I was thinking 16ga or 14ga for general boat wire?
if you were only gonna spring for one sized wire what would it be????? thanks.

and do i purchase single strand or two or three strand and why? thanks

i plan on batteries placed midship with port-starboard install (thanks Mainesail)

 

[whatfiero]

12 gauge not as hard to work with as 10 and will handle the voltage drop of 20 ft

 

[whatfiero]

also good for 20 amps

 

[sailormanbigd]

Thats Two For 12gauge

wow, I was really off thinking that 16ga was good! Of course money is a factor so I want to be safe and do it right the first time. thanks.. I have learned over the years that long after the money is spent, then you have to deal with the consequences of cheaping it.

 

[kloudie1]

12ga is a much better universal wire.. only use multi stranded .. the solid wire will break from vibration.. Some studies have said that automotive wire is ok, but a proper job would be with real marine wiring.. something like this:
http://bestboatwire.com/catalog/default.php/cPath/22_32
Again, tinned is best but studies have shown that untinned with correct end waterproofing and connectors will work well..

 

[Chris Patterson]

Maybe it's just a personal preference, but I always use single strand. It's more versatile, (like if you only need a piece of red, or black), and if you need to "tap into" it later, it's less hassle than stripping the outer coating, which more often than not ends up nicking the inner wire. And I keep a thousand of those little 4" tie wraps for securing the two together for neater runs. And with single conductor wires, you know at a glance if it's 12V, or 120V. Oh yeah, on the red/black runs, one of them ALWAYS tends to be longer on one end or the other, thereby reducing wasting the gold plated stuff.

(Oh yeah, I know ABYC says dark blue for cabin lights, blah de blah. But it's just more common for most people to look at a red DC wire, and know it's hot)..

 

[kloudie1]

OK, Sorry..I am having a terminology problem.. Single strand, in my sometimes wonky head, is solid wire as is used in a house.. multi-strand is a conductor made of many fine copper wires .. A cable is a jacketed set of wires.. .. The standard marine cabling 12/2 with red and black multistrand wires in it is nice because ya don't have to tape it or wire tie it .. But individual wires work OK if ya don't mind securing them together ..

 

[Chris Patterson]

No No. I didn't mean solid wire at all. MY terminology is "screwy". Solid conductor wire is of no use on ANYTHING that moves, boat, auto, plane, etc..

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

I just did my order yesterday for my electrical project. For bus bars, anl fuses and holder vtewarehouse.com and genuinedeals.com for wire and lugs were the cheapest prices I found.

 

[Maine Sail]

12 gauge not as hard to work with as 10 and will handle the voltage drop of 20 ft..........

also good for 20 amps

A 20 foot run of 12GA wire, really 40' round trip, will result in a 10.9% voltage drop at 20A...

The most efficient way to install wire, cost wise, is to run the voltage drop calculations for each circuit and buy wire for the circuit length form a vendor who will cut to lengths...

"Critical circuits" should not be any more than a 3% voltage drop. Non critical circuits can be up to 10% but personally I don't like to see any more than 5% on non-critical.. Why install 12GA or 10GA on a circuit that does not nee it, if cost is a concern?

That said if you just want one wire 12GA is better than 14GA but do keep your runs to motors and higher loads as short as possible. Most macerators for example need to be wired with 10GA or larger due to the circuit length. I size all motor loads for 3% max as motors do not like low voltage and don't tend to last as long when run at low voltages.

 

[Maine Sail]

Maybe it's just a personal preference, but I always use single strand. It's more versatile, (like if you only need a piece of red, or black), and if you need to "tap into" it later, it's less hassle than stripping the outer coating, which more often than not ends up nicking the inner wire. And I keep a thousand of those little 4" tie wraps for securing the two together for neater runs. And with single conductor wires, you know at a glance if it's 12V, or 120V. Oh yeah, on the red/black runs, one of them ALWAYS tends to be longer on one end or the other, thereby reducing wasting the gold plated stuff.

(Oh yeah, I know ABYC says dark blue for cabin lights, blah de blah. But it's just more common for most people to look at a red DC wire, and know it's hot)..

I much prefer duplex wire & triplex for AC. The outer jacket aids greatly in minimizing direct chafe to the conductor and the wires can be more easily identified as a pair and clearly labeled..

 

[Maine Sail]

I just did my order yesterday for my electrical project. For bus bars, anl fuses and holder vtewarehouse.com and genuinedeals.com for wire and lugs were the cheapest prices I found.

VTE has some good deals but I do prefer the Blue Sea ANL holders to the VTE though the VTE works. If buying the VTE ANL's I MUCH prefer the "High Amp" version. I am not a fan of the cover on the low amp ANL version.

Also the ANL's VTE sells are not ignition protection rated. Sometimes the best deal is not the best product for the job. You can find ANL's on-line as low as $3.00 but they may not have the same trip delay curves as the ones from Blue Sea and they are not IP rated. Many of the ANL's sold act like an ANN fuse, or really are an ANN fuse but they simply slap an ANL label on them. The ANN's have a shorter trip delay curve and do not work as well for motor loads like a starter.... The VTE fuses are okay to keep as emergency spares but I would much rather use the Blue Sea ANL's..

 

[Snotter]

VTE has some good deals but I do prefer the Blue Sea ANL holders to the VTE though the VTE works. If buying the VTE ANL's I MUCH prefer the "High Amp" version. I am not a fan of the cover on the low amp ANL version.

Also the ANL's VTE sells are not ignition protection rated. Sometimes the best deal is not the best product for the job. You can find ANL's on-line as low as $3.00 but they may not have the same trip delay curves as the ones from Blue Sea and they are not IP rated. Many of the ANL's sold act like an ANN fuse, or really are an ANN fuse but they simply slap an ANL label on them. The ANN's have a shorter trip delay curve and do not work as well for motor loads like a starter.... The VTE fuses are okay to keep as emergency spares but I would much rather use the Blue Sea ANL's..

I tried to buy some ANL fuse holders from genuinedealz but I couldn't find them; however, they do sell the fuses.

Where do you buy blue sea ANL fuse holders?

 

[Maine Sail]

I tried to buy some ANL fuse holders from genuinedealz but I couldn't find them; however, they do sell the fuses.

Where do you buy blue sea ANL fuse holders?

Hamilton or Defender, or right here at SBO

 

[Snotter]

Hamilton or Defender, or right here at SBO

I just submitted an order with SBO. Thanks.

 

[KingAirDriver]

Maybe it's just a personal preference, but I always use single strand. It's more versatile, (like if you only need a piece of red, or black), and if you need to "tap into" it later, it's less hassle than stripping the outer coating, which more often than not ends up nicking the inner wire. And I keep a thousand of those little 4" tie wraps for securing the two together for neater runs. And with single conductor wires, you know at a glance if it's 12V, or 120V. Oh yeah, on the red/black runs, one of them ALWAYS tends to be longer on one end or the other, thereby reducing wasting the gold plated stuff.

(Oh yeah, I know ABYC says dark blue for cabin lights, blah de blah. But it's just more common for most people to look at a red DC wire, and know it's hot)..

They also say something about only using crimp terminals too right?
Yeah...I don't think so... Crimps are for lazy people who don't know how to solder properly! LOL

 

[Maine Sail]

They also say something about only using crimp terminals too right?
Yeah...I don't think so... Crimps are for lazy people who don't know how to solder properly! LOL

Yeah like 99% of the solder joints I see on boats, SOLDERED POORLY & INCORRECTLY...... If everyone who claimed to know how to solder, actually did know how, perhaps the ABYC standards would be different. Seeing as they are largely EVIDENCE BASED they preclude solder as the sole means of connection because so many people did such a poor job with it that it simply became DANGEROUS.

Owners with dime store crimp tools are not much better but I rarely see factory made crimps fail. Either technique is worth doing CORRECTLY.

I have many well made crimps still working perfectly even after 40+ years of service.... There is good reason the ABYC calls for a mechanical termination FIRST then if you want to add solder you can. With the right tools though it is not necessary and can actually cause more harm than good, as I witness nearly daily.

If you don't like crimps better stop going on escalators, elevators, Disney rides, busses, planes, cars etc. etc.......

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

VTE has some good deals but I do prefer the Blue Sea ANL holders to the VTE though the VTE works. If buying the VTE ANL's I MUCH prefer the "High Amp" version. I am not a fan of the cover on the low amp ANL version.

Also the ANL's VTE sells are not ignition protection rated. Sometimes the best deal is not the best product for the job. You can find ANL's on-line as low as $3.00 but they may not have the same trip delay curves as the ones from Blue Sea and they are not IP rated. Many of the ANL's sold act like an ANN fuse, or really are an ANN fuse but they simply slap an ANL label on them. The ANN's have a shorter trip delay curve and do not work as well for motor loads like a starter.... The VTE fuses are okay to keep as emergency spares but I would much rather use the Blue Sea ANL's..

As always MS, thanks for the good info.

Sounds like I will keep my current blue Sea anl's and use the ones I just ordered as spares. I mainly went for the cheaper holders and bus bars. Hope that doesn't end up screwing me up.

On the crimp versus solder. I plan to crimp. I am borrowing a friends heavy duty crimper for the 4 and 0 gauge stuff. For the other sizes, 8 gauge and above, I was thinking of ordering some tinned, uninsulated terminals and the heat shrinking over them. I don't like the pre-insulated terminals. Any thoughts on that?

 

[Maine Sail]

I was thinking of ordering some tinned, uninsulated terminals and the heat shrinking over them. I don't like the pre-insulated terminals. Any thoughts on that?

You will need a special crimp tool specifically for the terminals you order and they will be more difficult to make as water tight. The factory made heat shrink crimps are a great product if you buy good ones. I only use FTZ Polyolefin Crimp-n-Seal.. I am not a huge fan of Ancor terminals as the consistency is just not there. Phil sells the FTZ's here at SBO...

 

[Tim R.]

You will need a special crimp tool specifically for the terminals you order and they will be more difficult to make as water tight. The factory made heat shrink crimps are a great product if you buy good ones. I only use FTZ Polyolefin Crimp-n-Seal.. I am not a huge fan of Ancor terminals as the consistency is just not there. Phil sells the FTZ's here at SBO...

Another vote for the Crimp-n-Seal. I still have a lot of Anchor terminals but I don't use them anymore.