Talk to me about "Pawr"

[puddlejockey]

I have an '82 Cherubini designed 27 that I'm having a great time fixing up, and I've already learned quite a bit on this forum!
I have some power/ electrical questions; but I'm in NC, where we have "pawr", not "power"...same theories...fewer syllables

ANYWAY; so far, I think I've got my restoration priorities pretty much dead on; one hatch is still leaking, the cushions need recovering, but I've restocked the bar and installed a marine stereo system..

Running wire on this boat is not fun, particularly if you're like me and don't want to cut corners, and are genetically programmed for clean installs and good looking results. I considered placing an Ad in Craigsllist for a small contortionist with delicate hands who can handle a tool...but doing so would probably end my marriage and still not get the boat wired up.

Now the serious question(s). The boat has a shore power system, and a Yanmar 8hp 1 banger, and is equipped with what i consider a sub-par new 12 v marine battery from a local auto parts superstore.

1: With shore power, does the power typically also recharge the battery, or is it solely recharged from an alternator on the engine? I don't see any feeds/ inverters to accomplish either task. Also, is it worth it to install a 2nd battery and a switch? on previous fishing boats I've owned, i always installed a 2nd 12 volt and switching system, and used one battery for trolling, while running on "both" under engine power to recharge them; but on a sailboat my engine runtime will be significantly less. I'm not sure if the same applies to a sailboat, although the theory is the same.

2: Do I need to be concerned about power draw for interior and anchor lights at night? We're on a large inland lake, with plenty of opportunities to anchor out and overnight in a secluded cove or two, but I'd hate to wake up and find I have no juice left if i need to motor home.

3: is there a way, and/ or any reason, to install some type of inverter so that my 12v lights will run off the shore power feed while in the dock? Does this already happen with the system that the magical Hunter electrical elves installed at the factory? Again, I don't see an inverter anywhere.

I did do a search on here, and got these questions only quasi answered to one degree or another.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Bill1565]

You need to spend some time on Mainsail's piece of the forum rooting around, also look up Ample Power on the web and read their primer. but just for starters batteries can be charged by "battery chargers" as well as the alternator. "battery chargers" can be purchased with 110 v input and wired into your shore power.

 

[Tally Ho]

My 2 cents...(and worth about as much)....

My 1996 Hunter 280 (which is for sale by the way...see the classifieds) has a on-board battery charger that charges 2 batteries from the 110 AC shore power feed.

I have 2 batteries, 1 is a deep cycle marine house battery, the other a starting battery. They are on a 1-2-both battery switch. I typically use only the house battery, but the starter battery gives me a little piece of mind that I won't find myself without enough juice to start the 2-cylinder Yanmar at the end of a day on the water...

I also carry a cheap "jump-start pack" that could provide emergency starting power if needed.

Both of my batteries are small -group 24's. but I don't cruise for extended periods of time, and they do just fine. Your question about anchor lights and cabin lights will be very dependent on the size of your battery bank.

I am curious to here from others about the anchor light draw...I have yet to anchor out over night, but hoping to get the chance this season.

Greg

 

[mark porter]

I have an 1986 H31, and have two battery banks (bank A, and bank B) with a diverter switch which has 4 positions.
1. Off. Each bank is isolated from the other, as well as isolated from the charging system.
2. Bank A is accessible for use by the 'house' and also the engine, but bank B is isolated from both.
3. Bank B is accessible for use by the 'house' and also the engine, but bank A is isolated from both.
4. Both bank A & B are in parallel, and accessible for use by the 'house' and also the engine.

Each of my banks consist of two marine batteries , for a total of four batteries. I do overnight with my mast lighter on with no problems so far. But I do only use one bank for 'house' use, and always have one fully charged bank isolated on standby for engine use. I sail in the Saint John River system, so I end up doing quite a bit of motoring, which keeps the batteries topped up most if the time anyways. But better safe than sorry!

 

[Johann]

1: With shore power, does the power typically also recharge the battery, or is it solely recharged from an alternator on the engine? I don't see any feeds/ inverters to accomplish either task.

It is very likely you have a 120V AC battery charger somewhere in your setup. This will be connected to your shorepower.

If not, this should be one of your first purchases... It is pretty hard to handcrank the diesel.

Also, is it worth it to install a 2nd battery and a switch? on previous fishing boats I've owned, i always installed a 2nd 12 volt and switching system, and used one battery for trolling, while running on "both" under engine power to recharge them; but on a sailboat my engine runtime will be significantly less. I'm not sure if the same applies to a sailboat, although the theory is the same.

Yes, typically you have an engine battery and a house battery. I would lookup the OFF-ON-COMBINE battery switch and also an auto charging relay. This will keep the batteries separate unless being charged (via relay) or if you need extra juice to start, use the COMBINE setting on the switch.

2: Do I need to be concerned about power draw for interior and anchor lights at night? We're on a large inland lake, with plenty of opportunities to anchor out and overnight in a secluded cove or two, but I'd hate to wake up and find I have no juice left if i need to motor home.

Yes, cabin lights can draw quite a bit of "pawr". I would use a multimeter with an ammeter function to figure out the draw from all of your DC loads.

3: is there a way, and/ or any reason, to install some type of inverter so that my 12v lights will run off the shore power feed while in the dock? Does this already happen with the system that the magical Hunter electrical elves installed at the factory? Again, I don't see an inverter anywhere.

Assuming you have a battery charger, this will use 120V AC shorepower to charge the battery while your lights are drawing their 12V DC power from it. An inverter would convert power from the 12V DC battery to 120V AC.

 

[tomgrigsby]

My H30 has 2 batteries, a A/B/Both/Off switch, and a 120 VAC Battery charger. Alternator charging too of course. Recommend you do the same. Need to have the dedicated engine battery after an overnight anchorage has drained the other one.

 

[Stu Jackson]

It all depends on how it's wired.

Basic Battery Wiring Diagrams This is a very good basic primer for boat system wiring: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6604.0.html

This is another very good basic primer for boat system wiring: The 1-2-B Switch by Maine Sail (brings together a lot of what this subject is all about)
http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=137615

Also, try this, lotsa reading but it'd save you buying, gasp, a book!

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5977.0.html

Good luck. Get some more "basics" under your belt, and keep asking away.

While you've asked on the Hunter forum, you might want to consider clicking on this link each time you sign on, since it will "expose" you to many other topics of interest:

Show posts from all forums, all sites

 

[Dalliance]

My H30 has 2 batteries, a A/B/Both/Off switch, and a 120 VAC Battery charger. Alternator charging too of course. Recommend you do the same. Need to have the dedicated engine battery after an overnight anchorage has drained the other one.

Ditto. Same setup.

You can reduce overnight anchorage drain with an LED anchor light, but you still need the dedicated engine battery.

 

[puddlejockey]

Thanks for all the responses, guys!

All that's good info to have, and reinforces my thoughts that a 2nd battery is worth the cost in dollars and weight for piece of mind...

Good info in the links, too...THANKS!

i will also look into this "book" thing of which you speak. I believe i saw one of those once; propping up the TV...

 

[syoun10]

My 2 cents...(and worth about as much)....

.....I also carry a cheap "jump-start pack" that could provide emergency starting power if needed.


Greg

Johann [/QUOTE]
If not, this should be one of your first purchases... It is pretty hard to handcrank the diesel.





Just a couple of comments on these interesting quotes from earlier in the thread...

I, too, had a "jump-start-pack" from West Marine in my Xmas stocking but found to my surprise that it won't turn the engine over, either by itself (i.e. with the battery disconnected) or when put in parallel with a battery that is just drained enough that it's on the verge of being able to turn the engine over - but not quite!. I have a 3 cyl 29hp Yanmar 3YM30 engine. Anybody got any different observations/experiences?


Regarding Johann's quote above, my previous boat had a 2 cyl Volvo 18hp diesel which had a crank handle that was easy to use and which I was always very glad to have as a back-up. The crankshaft on my current engine is conveniently positioned if one were to try to install a socket for a crank handle, but there is no such socket, and I've often bemoaned the fact that there is no ability to hand-crank. Do others concur with Johann that hand-cranking a 29hp diesel would not be possible?

 

[Sailm8]

Ditto the LED anchor light. But would add all of the cabin lights too.

 

[Jake N Eggs]

Johann

If not, this should be one of your first purchases... It is pretty hard to handcrank the diesel.


Regarding Johann's quote above, my previous boat had a 2 cyl Volvo 18hp diesel which had a crank handle that was easy to use and which I was always very glad to have as a back-up. The crankshaft on my current engine is conveniently positioned if one were to try to install a socket for a crank handle, but there is no such socket, and I've often bemoaned the fact that there is no ability to hand-crank. Do others concur with Johann that hand-cranking a 29hp diesel would not be possible?[/QUOTE]


Hand cranking a diesel without decompression leavers is not possible due to the high compression. Decompression leavers allow you to get momentum in the cranking before releasing the leaver or leavers.

 

[jtm]

After you've got the 2 batteries, the multi selection switch and battery separator - you could check out a few spec sheets on wiring in a dual charger that plugs into the boats AC circuit. make them all GFI outlets too.

check this out at promariner- and dl the pdfs

http://www.pmariner.com/productFeature.php?ProductNum=42012&page=1