Cracked Hull/Deck

[raul bandas]

Last week I purchased a beautiful 2003 Beneteau Oceanis 311. The original owner kept it in excellent conditions and meticulously fixed all AA problems during his 10-year ownership. Unfortunately, on the first day of our journey to the sailboat’s new marina we ran into bad weather. Wind gusts reached at times @ 20 to 25 knots. At one point during the middle of the storm we heard a strange noise as if something had cracked. Immediately thereafter we proceeded to shorten the mainsail and conducted a quick inspection of the deck and inside the cabin. However, all seemed perfectly fine. The next day we sailed off again. The weather was perfect; sunny, 3 feet waves, and 6 knots wind. After approximately 4 hours into the trip, we noticed a football bubble on the port side chainplate U Bolt. The toe rail was bent as well. A similar bubble was starting to swell on the starboard side at the chainplate U Bolt. We then immediately lowered the sails and called for assistance from a nearby marina. When we arrived to the marina we noticed that the port side of the hull was cracked open almost 2 inches in width by 10 inches in length.
I wish to know whether any Beneteau Oceanis 311 owner has ever run into a similar problem and the corrective measures, from an engineering standpoint, undertaken to fix the problem. I am not sure whether building a thicker fiberglass layer under the deck will be enough to withstand the pressure caused by the installation of a new set of chainplate U Bolts. Another option is to fabricate a steel plate (1/2 inch thick x 16 inches in length x 4 inches in width) and affix it under the new fiberglass layer under the deck. Thank you for your kind attention and assistance. Best.
Raul
raulbandas@gmail.com

 

[TLW]

Raul, I'm sorry that you experienced such a disappointing turnaround in what should have been a joyous time. I'm going to let someone more familiar with Beneteaus address this, but wanted to make sure you got a few encouraging words right away. There is almost nothing on a sailboat that can't be repaired short of a fire that melts it down to a blob of glass. I hope insurance is in force to help you with this situation.

All that being said, there must be more information to this story. I'm not sure of the Beneteau method for securing the standing rigging: Chainplates attached to bulkheads? Or supported low in hull? Is this problem at the chainplate for your upper shrouds or your lowers? Or both? Was the rigging adjusted (tightened) recently? Pictures and a more complete description would be helpful, but you are going to have to get this to an experienced shop.

 

[Chris Patterson]

I'm anxious to see what another B 311 owner has to say about this. I am not familiar with that models chainplate arrangement at all, but from an engineering standpoint of view, I'm alarmed at the fact that they could be secured by the deck in any shape, form, or fashion. I venture that if you put steel plates from stem to stern, underneath ALL the chainplates, the end result would be the same, ie: tear the entire deck off of the boat. I've never seen this once, as all that I've seen are secured to the hull, or at bulkhead lines. Some quality pictures would be in order for a proper response.

And personally, if I found that a boat had chainplates attached to the deck only, I'd run like hell. This can not be the case. Surely.

 

[TLW]

Actually Chris, It's not all that uncommon for a FORWARD lower shroud to be anchored only to a sturdy deck fitting. The only function of that shroud is to keep the mast from inverting, and a great deal of tension is not needed to accomplish that. An AFT lower spreader, however, functions to limit the amount of DESIRED mast bend and must counter the sometimes powerful forces of the backstay adjuster.

All this is mere generality, however, as we don't, at this point, know the standing rigging configuration of this particular Beneteau.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Better Start Running ..........................

And personally, if I found that a boat had chainplates attached to the deck only, I'd run like hell. This can not be the case. Surely.

................ because Hunter Marine (now Marlow-Hunter) attached the chain plate to the edge of the deck for many years, even on their 40+ ft. boats. No attachment to the hull. From what I can find, it looks as if they stopped this practice sometime in the mid 2000's and extended down to the hull for attachment. Perhaps other readers with later model Hunters can verify the latest date of attachment to the deck.

I always keep an eye on my chain plate attachment points, but to date, solid as a rock and no signs of leakage at the deck-hull joint.

 

[Paul Mermelstein]

Re: Better Start Running ..........................

I have a Beneteau 393. The chainplates are fixed to the deck but there is a solid stainless rod from the underside of the deck that is then secured down in the hull. The tension is thereby transferred to the hull. I agree that the deck alone should not handle that stress.

 

[tomgrigsby]

The chain plates appear to be bolted thru the toerails. They mount midway between the windows. In tha cabin view, I'm guessing the underdeck arrangement is inside the cabinets on both sides. I'd like to see what's in there. This may not be the same boat layout - not sure what year this is.

 

[Bob 04 H260]

................ because Hunter Marine (now Marlow-Hunter) attached the chain plate to the edge of the deck for many years, even on their 40+ ft. boats. No attachment to the hull. From what I can find, it looks as if they stopped this practice sometime in the mid 2000's and extended down to the hull for attachment. Perhaps other readers with later model Hunters can verify the latest date of attachment to the deck.

I always keep an eye on my chain plate attachment points, but to date, solid as a rock and no signs of leakage at the deck-hull joint.

Ralph, I think if you look at your boat more closely you will find that your chain plates are not attached to the deck. The plate in your picture has bolts that go through to the hull. The hull is reinforced to carry the load.

Cruising World did an interview some time ago with Jim Bohart from Hunter Marine. They asked a lot of questions about how Hunters were built and why they were built that way, here is what he had to say about Hunter chain plates........

"The chain plate areas in a 430 by way of example are composed of 28 layers of by-ply and 2808 stitched glass. A series of solid glass top hat beams and stringers are 100% over bonded to the hull bottom using 24oz roving in 12-16" widths and polyester bonding putty where inaccessible areas are joined. The beams forward of the sump work with the chain plate bonding area to form a ring beam and carry the mast and rigging loads once the deck and liner are joined........"

The full interview is available on this web site here,

http://hunter.sailboatowners.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=34&Itemid=87

Bob

 

[sandpiper10471]

This sounds really serious. Good on you for reducing sail and getting in safely.
We need photos inside and out and any extra details in order to assess this. I am sure it can be fixed though. We also need to hear from those with knowledge of the Beneteau, not from Hunter owners who have totally different engineering.
Also extra info such as: Was the rigging just retuned or commissioned? Was the boat recently in a travel lift and launched? Have the bulkheads moved and how are they bonded?

 

[raul bandas]

TLW and Others,

The damaged chainplates for the upper and lower shrouds are attached to bulkheads. I have attached three pictures which illustrate the extent of the damage caused to the deck and hull. Thank you for the kind advice.

RB

 

[raul bandas]

Tom,

The two images you posted correspond to my vessel (2003 Oceanis 311 32 feet). The chain plates are bolted thru the toerails and underdeck arrangement is inside the cabinets on both sides. Thank you.

RB

 

[tomgrigsby]

Raul
Recommendations for repairs are beyond my experience - I'm not an engineer. Hopefully others with expertise will weigh in. You have a beautiful boat and I hope you can get her repaired quickly at back out to sea. Best regards, Tom

 

[Maine Sail]

TLW and Others,

The damaged chainplates for the upper and lower shrouds are attached to bulkheads. I have attached three pictures which illustrate the extent of the damage caused to the deck and hull. Thank you for the kind advice.

RB

Holy crap that is NOT GOOD and perhaps a serious design flaw. Most designs like that have tension rods extending down to the hull to help distribute the load. It appears they tried to rely on the inward deck flange, for strength, which was apparently to lightly built.

I would get in touch with Beneteau ASAP....... I was just in Fajardo a few weeks ago working on a boat there and probably walked or golf carted by your boat a few times. If I get back down there I can take a look at it but this seems like an NA needs to be involved. No sail boat should peel the deck in 25 knots.....

 

[Stu Jackson]

I agree with Maine Sail. In your first picture, I do NOT see any bulkhead(s). It just looks like U bolts through the deck with nothing below. Am I missing something?

 

[Bill Roosa]

looks like the deck to hull joint failed along with the hull side of the joint. I can see the caulking/glue but no bolts sticking thru. How is the deck attached to the hull? Surly not just glued with no bolts!

 

[Chris Patterson]

I'm with Bill, Stu, and Maine. That's spooky man. Me and Beneteau would have to be having a long talk about this, especially if it's a newer boat. I looked at those pictures with my mouth open. I said previously that I couldn't imagine shrouds being bolted to the deck, but from what I'm seeing, they are. Now a lower being that way is sometimes acceptable, as they don't see quite the loads an upper does, but on a "big" boat, I'd want them ALL secured down to the hull or bulkhead. That's crazy.

While this can be fixed, few things on a boat can't, a plate under there is not going to solve the problem. Not even close. It may be an option after the repair, to keep what you've got from pulling through, but it ain't gonna fix it.

The shrouds are going to have to come off, and extensive surgery to repair that hull/deck joint, and some REAL serious tabbing to prevent it from happening again. And the other side is probably suspect too.

I'm not being disparaging to you, not one iota. But whoever built that boat dropped the ball that day. Or went out at lunch and smoked a joint, and then came back and put it together.

Mmmm.... that's bad..

 

[finding41]

Holly s....!
You may want to get a lawyer involved! They may suggest you refrain form posting anything on forums about this. (May ask for posts to be deleted as well..)
I can see a settlement coming form an American boat builder that didn't follow designed plans. I can't and don't believe that Beneteau would design something so cheaply...!
Wow. Sorry about your luck. I'm glad you found it now and not in a less hospitable situation!

 

[alexco38]

I think the surveyor has some explaining to do too.

From an engineering point of view. A flat surface (deck) cant possibily support the upward pull of the rigging. The load has to be transferred to some vertical bulkhead or tabbing. May be they forgot something when the boat was built. May be someone took out a bracket that connect the U bolt to some vertical bulkhead.

It will be nice to see a similar boat. I just cant imagine the boat was designed like that.

We have a few Benateau Oceanis in the club. They race hard too. Never seen anything like that.

 

[Ron20324]

I can't see as the surveyor would say anything other than Beneteau designed/built the boat, and the design would not be suspect 10 years later unless there is a history of such failure in that line. I wonder if this was a French-built Benny built in a different way? I'm away from my B323, but maybe someone can tell us if the 311/321/323/331 design is the same?

 

[Caboteur]

This thread makes me nervous! I have a 31 which should be built the same way as the 311 and 323. Anything could have weakened the hull-deck joint or the upper hull close to the joint. From hitting the side of the boat to bad sling positions!
I will definitively check my boat (presently under tarp & snow) and see if some bolstering is necessary.
My previous boat had rods connecting the shrouds to the lower hull.
To the best of my knowlesge the 31, 323 and 311 are glued and screwed together: there is no through bolting; this starts with the 34 etc, the CE A classes.
If it were my boat (the 311) I would contact Beneteau; I would think they would wish to examine & find a fix!
By the way, 25 to 30 knots is a Beaufort force 6, a strong breeze, not a gale or storm!
Good luck with your boat.
Pierre