Yanmar solenoid

bart

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Nov 5, 2012
28
hunter 41 cranston,RI
When I turned on the ignition switch on my 41DS the battery light on the instrument panel came on as well as the low oil warning. When I turned the engine over it immediately ran for a second and then quit. On checking the fuel shut off solenoid, it is energized when the key is in the on position, shutting off the fuel and killing the engine.
I suspect a faulty ignition switch. Anyone ever have this problem?
 
Aug 17, 2010
208
Hunter 410 Dover NH
Does your panel have a stop button next to the key switch? If it does you could disconnect 1 side of that stop button (switch). If the engine runs I would suspect a bad stop button/switch. On my 410 that button/switch is energized when the key switch is on.
 
May 24, 2004
7,131
CC 30 South Florida
Whenever things in the control panel start acting erratically the wiring harness from engine to panel becomes highly suspect mainly from the insulation chaffing around fiberglass corners. This usually happens to boats much older than the H41DS but it could not be ruled out in a boat with many miles. It seems you have an electrical fault that is powering the fuel stop solenoid and perhaps causing warning lamps to malfunction (perhaps the engine did not acquire enough RPM to cause the lamps to go out). The solenoid itself is designed to default to Off when it fails or malfunctions so it is likely working properly. Like Scott suggests check the mechanical switch or stop button but if it is not stuck then you likely have a short somewhere in the wiring.
 

bart

.
Nov 5, 2012
28
hunter 41 cranston,RI
I suspected the stop button to be at fault and I unhooked both of the wires to it and the solenoid was still energized. Thanks for the info that the solenoid default is Off.
 
Feb 14, 2014
7,441
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
I found the same on my Volvo Penta, but the ignition systems are ABYC Safety standards.
My problem was the 50 amp fuse on the glow plug circuit.
Jim...
 
Feb 6, 2008
86
Hunter 41 Punta Gorda
Do you have an automatic fire suppression system? The control unit for mine went out and shut off the solenoid. The starting circuit was trying to open the solenoid until the short melted the wire and burned out the solenoid.

Butch
 
May 24, 2004
7,131
CC 30 South Florida
There has to be a short in the wiring somewhere; with the Stop Button disconnected there should be no power to the solenoid. Check on the wiring to the solenoid on the engine side, and also check the connector to the harness. Disconnect the solenoid to avoid further damage but trace continuity in the wiring.
 

bart

.
Nov 5, 2012
28
hunter 41 cranston,RI
Thanks, I will disconnect the solenoid and see if I can get her to run without further damaging anything and then have the wiring checked out.
 
Jun 1, 2009
1,751
Hunter 49 toronto
Do you have an automatic fire suppression system? The control unit for mine went out and shut off the solenoid. The starting circuit was trying to open the solenoid until the short melted the wire and burned out the solenoid.

Butch
Regarding the fire suppression, I have important info for anyone who has a FP genset, and the Seafire system
The automatic fire extinguisher located in the engine compartment has a heat sensor which activates the extinguisher if there is a fire. As well, there is a switch contact built into the sensor.
Now, this switch has Normally Closed (NC) contacts, which complies with all safety systems. What this means is that the extinguisher switch opens if there is a fire. To ensure the system is redundant safety-wise, an alarm is also triggered if there is a break in the wiring. That is why safety related systems (like burglar & fire alarms) work with NC contacts. Any wiring fault will trip the system.
The FP genset has an automatic shutdown feature which is activated if the Seafire alarm triggers. The FP safety shutdown also works on the principal of a NC loop. Hunter installed a relay near the FP which is activated by the seafire alarm. So, if the Seafire trips, the relay closes.
To make the logic work, Hunter wired the FP shutdown loop to the common & NC contacts of the small black relay they installed.
The problem with NC contacts on relays is that they have less contact pressure than the Normally Open (NO) side of the relay. Here's why...
The NC contact is actuated by a small spring on the relay armature which flips open in the absence of coil current. When the relay coil is energized, it "pulls" the contact arm closed with considerably more force than the spring activated NC action.
If you were to physically knock a relay while measuring contact resistance from the common to NC, there is a good chance you'd see a very fast interruption in continuity. Now, the relays that hunter uses are common automotive relays (cost about $5), and they aren't sealed.
This means that salt air, etc slowly Pitts the contacts.
What this leads to is the vibration from the genset, (or other physical disturbances) causing enough of a chattering on the NC contact to shut down the genset.
Unfortunately, FP didn't build a delay into the shut down loop, so even a really short "blip" shuts it down.
There are several solutions for this, including using a better quality sealed SPDT relay with gold contacts. These are less than $10.
 

bart

.
Nov 5, 2012
28
hunter 41 cranston,RI
The boat has automatic fire suppression. If it malfunctions, will it shut down the Yanmar fuel solenoid?
 
Aug 17, 2010
208
Hunter 410 Dover NH
On my 410 there is also a relay that powers the stop solenoid. The stop switch powers the coil side of the relay. The contact side is normally open. If the relay is failed internally it could stay energized.
 
Jun 1, 2009
1,751
Hunter 49 toronto
The boat has automatic fire suppression. If it malfunctions, will it shut down the Yanmar fuel solenoid?
If you have the Safire question, then the answer is yes. The sea fire shuts down both the genset & engine
 
Jun 1, 2009
1,751
Hunter 49 toronto
On my 410 there is also a relay that powers the stop solenoid. The stop switch powers the coil side of the relay. The contact side is normally open. If the relay is failed internally it could stay energized.
Respectfully, you'll never lively see a relay that is failed which shorts out the NO contacts. You could see pitted contacts which won't close properly.
The reason for the relay (typically) is that the seafire & stop button are connected in a "wired OR " fashion, so that either the engine stop button or seafire will shut down the engine.
 
Aug 17, 2010
208
Hunter 410 Dover NH
art I have no experience with the seafire system so I cannot speak about that. Two things though about your other suggestions. I have on several occasions seen relays fail in the opposite of the "normal" position. They are mechanical and can fail open or closed. Secondly the reason they use a relay in my boat (410) is that the wire size for the run back to the control panel is insufficient to carry the amperage required to energize the stop solenoid over that distance.
 
Jun 1, 2009
1,751
Hunter 49 toronto
art I have no experience with the seafire system so I cannot speak about that. Two things though about your other suggestions. I have on several occasions seen relays fail in the opposite of the "normal" position. They are mechanical and can fail open or closed. Secondly the reason they use a relay in my boat (410) is that the wire size for the run back to the control panel is insufficient to carry the amperage required to energize the stop solenoid over that distance.
Yes, you are probably correct that the relay is to handle the current, but for another reason. The stop solenoid has a fairly beefy coil. It is what is termed as an "inductive load". When an inductive load turns off, there is a considerable amount of flyback current, as well as elevated voltage. Allow me to explain.
When you energize a coil load, you are putting current into an inductor. The current lags the applied voltage, meaning that it takes time (very short) for the current to reach maximum. At that point, you have 12 volts, and some nominal (let's say 1.5 amps) across the coil.
But, when you de-energize the coil (stop pressing the switch), the magnetic field collapses very quickly.
This creates a flyback voltage which can be in the hundreds (or higher) of volts. It's enough to arc & damage switch contacts.
The black automotive relay is rated at 30 amps, and is better suited than the switch to absorb the flyback. FYI, in all electronic circuits, reverse biased diodes are always connected to any inductive load, because the transistors driving them will smoke otherwise.
So, the relay on your boat serves a few purposes; a very good one being that it is a $5 sacrificial contact which is more economical to replace than the stop solenoid.
I should add at this point that there was a very real problem for several years with Hunter key switch wiring which made engine starting very unpredictable. (Actually it was very predictable...when your life absolutely depended on the engine starting, it wouldn't.) The only reliable solution was to add a relay to the bendix circuit.
 

bart

.
Nov 5, 2012
28
hunter 41 cranston,RI
Problem was caused by Seafire system. After I disconnected the solenoid and got the Yanmar running and silenced the low oil pressure alarm I was able to hear the relatively quiet Seafire alarm. My boat has a manual override that got everything back to normal once I reconnected the solenoid. Not sure why it went off but I suspect that after 8 years of neglect ( the boat was built in 2008) the fire extinguisher had low pressure. The system has a gauge but it is cleverly pointed at a bulkhead and can't be seen.
If anyone has a similarly equipped boat and it unexpectedly quits, the Seafire is another possibility. I think I'll leave it off in the future.
 
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