Another problem we are having with our new 36 is the yanmar engine shut off switch. It does not happen all of the time. In fact, it has only happened twice on two long runs while the engine was on for a long time. We tried to stop the engine by pushing the red button and nothing happened. So, we shut it off with the manual shut off. Yanmar said they could not get it to malfuction and charged us $120. Is this covered by warranty? Would it be Yanmar or Hunter? Has anyone had the same problem? Your comments will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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Keys
Be careful and make sure that your switch you use to start the engine is in the ON position and not placed on off. You can turn it off by mistake and the engine will still run but none of the electrics work on the engine such as the tach, engine time meter, SHUT OFF SWITCH, etc.
Be careful and make sure that your switch you use to start the engine is in the ON position and not placed on off. You can turn it off by mistake and the engine will still run but none of the electrics work on the engine such as the tach, engine time meter, SHUT OFF SWITCH, etc.
That brings up a good point.
My 3GM30F never had a pushbutton shutoff. I installed a solenoid. But I wired it to shutoff with the key in the off position. That way no matter who shuts off the engine, the only instructions that are needed to insure that the starter won't be accidentally engaged is 'turn off the key first, then push the button, ANY button'.
My 3GM30F never had a pushbutton shutoff. I installed a solenoid. But I wired it to shutoff with the key in the off position. That way no matter who shuts off the engine, the only instructions that are needed to insure that the starter won't be accidentally engaged is 'turn off the key first, then push the button, ANY button'.
I had the same problem....
I adjusted the screws on the solenoid so that it would pull enough to shut off the engine. Next time it happens have someone go below to see if the solenoid is working...if it is then obviously it is not the switch nor solenoid.. just a matter of adjustment. If the solenoid is not working than it may the switch, wire connections, or solenoid itself. Welcome to world of mass production boats built by third world country folks. abe
I adjusted the screws on the solenoid so that it would pull enough to shut off the engine. Next time it happens have someone go below to see if the solenoid is working...if it is then obviously it is not the switch nor solenoid.. just a matter of adjustment. If the solenoid is not working than it may the switch, wire connections, or solenoid itself. Welcome to world of mass production boats built by third world country folks. abe
Solenoid source, and warnig
I want to install a shutoff solenoid on my 356. Can Fred or someone else give me the make and model and source for a solenoid that has the pull and stroke needed? (Also a 3GM30). Also a note to all: be careful because if the key switch is turned off while the engine is running, whether or not the fuel has been shut off at the same time, the alternator diodes can easily be spiked and shorted out. Expensive repair. A simple and very cheap solution is to buy a "Zap-Stop" at WM, which is just a solid state overvoltage diode that you wire across the alternator output, and the problem is solved. In fact I would recommend it to be installed regardless of the alternator/switch/shutoff setup in all boats. Ivan Bekey H356 # 157
I want to install a shutoff solenoid on my 356. Can Fred or someone else give me the make and model and source for a solenoid that has the pull and stroke needed? (Also a 3GM30). Also a note to all: be careful because if the key switch is turned off while the engine is running, whether or not the fuel has been shut off at the same time, the alternator diodes can easily be spiked and shorted out. Expensive repair. A simple and very cheap solution is to buy a "Zap-Stop" at WM, which is just a solid state overvoltage diode that you wire across the alternator output, and the problem is solved. In fact I would recommend it to be installed regardless of the alternator/switch/shutoff setup in all boats. Ivan Bekey H356 # 157
Ivan I don't have a model number. I adapted a
generic solenoid from a generator application. Now about that zap-stop. Its purpose is to save your diodes if the battery switch is shut off while the engine is running. The ignition key doesn't have the same effect. Virtually every engine on earth is shut down by turning off the key. Even my diesel truck and diesel tractor.
generic solenoid from a generator application. Now about that zap-stop. Its purpose is to save your diodes if the battery switch is shut off while the engine is running. The ignition key doesn't have the same effect. Virtually every engine on earth is shut down by turning off the key. Even my diesel truck and diesel tractor.
electro-mechanical items and salt air don't mix
We sailors often want to add step saving items - but sometimes it is just better to have the low tech way of doing things when you are surrounded with salt water and salt air... I opt for the manual pull the cable - that always works.
We sailors often want to add step saving items - but sometimes it is just better to have the low tech way of doing things when you are surrounded with salt water and salt air... I opt for the manual pull the cable - that always works.
Two things.
First, the cable doesn't always work. In the marine environment the cheap Yanmar cable often fails. A proper rubber capped push-button is much more dependable and easier to operate. Second, salt air is a myth. The only way salt gets into air is if the wind mixes it up. Then when the seawater comes back down, the salt goes with it. Our boats are under that water because of the way they are operated. All they need to remove the left over salt is a freshwater rinse when they are brought in from those conditions. The oldest method of removing salt and impurities from water is distillation. That's what the sun does to the sea to create rain and thusly fresh water.
First, the cable doesn't always work. In the marine environment the cheap Yanmar cable often fails. A proper rubber capped push-button is much more dependable and easier to operate. Second, salt air is a myth. The only way salt gets into air is if the wind mixes it up. Then when the seawater comes back down, the salt goes with it. Our boats are under that water because of the way they are operated. All they need to remove the left over salt is a freshwater rinse when they are brought in from those conditions. The oldest method of removing salt and impurities from water is distillation. That's what the sun does to the sea to create rain and thusly fresh water.
Fred: Pls explain yourself
Your answer was confusing. The ignition switch on gasoline engines shuts them off because turning the switch off stops the sparks, and therefore the fuel stops burning in the cylinders. As you know a diesel ignites the fuel by compressional heating and will continue to run just fine when the "ignition" switch is turned to the off position, and so must be shut down by shutting off the fuel supply to the injector pump. This can be done manually or with a solenoid. I wager that your diesel truck and diesel tractor have solenoids that turn on the fuel when the key is on and shut off the fuel when the key is turned off, but the key turning also shuts off the battery connection to the alternator, and that's when you can zap the diodes. This is warned against by Yanmar and all diesel dealers, and my Hunter dealer too. The "zap-stop" prevents that voltage spike. I don't understand what you said in your answer above--that diesel switches do not work that way. Indeed it seems to me that they do. Comments? Ivan bekey
Your answer was confusing. The ignition switch on gasoline engines shuts them off because turning the switch off stops the sparks, and therefore the fuel stops burning in the cylinders. As you know a diesel ignites the fuel by compressional heating and will continue to run just fine when the "ignition" switch is turned to the off position, and so must be shut down by shutting off the fuel supply to the injector pump. This can be done manually or with a solenoid. I wager that your diesel truck and diesel tractor have solenoids that turn on the fuel when the key is on and shut off the fuel when the key is turned off, but the key turning also shuts off the battery connection to the alternator, and that's when you can zap the diodes. This is warned against by Yanmar and all diesel dealers, and my Hunter dealer too. The "zap-stop" prevents that voltage spike. I don't understand what you said in your answer above--that diesel switches do not work that way. Indeed it seems to me that they do. Comments? Ivan bekey
Right Ivan, turning the key to off, turns ON a
solenoid. That in turn shuts off the fuel. Then a timer shuts off a relay and then power to the shut-off solenoid ceases. My diesel tractor can be heard 'clicking' when the timer no longer holds the fuel pump off. I can't hear my truck doing the same. But it's a modern marvel. (Duramax) Hell, it even has electronic injectors. They fire several times on each power stroke depending on the throttle setting. The days of diesels running forever until the fuel is manually shutoff are ending. I hear Yanmar is going to the same type of injectors. It has to do with the government regulators mandating cleaner air. Of course that cleanliness will never be 'good enough'. A mandated improvement will always be forthcoming. We can't have our bureaucrats with nothing to do, can we?
And zap-stops just save the alternator from accidental battery disconnects, not ignition key shutoffs. The key being turned off only kills power to the regulator (field). That just turns off the alternator, not kill the power to the diodes. The main power wire going out from the alternator (charge wire) is still hot. Just like with any vehicle. Turning the key off doesn't turn off the battery's. And many battery selector switches even have a provision for maintaining alternator field power to prevent damage during battery shut-offs with the engine running. In short, it's not the key being turned off that kills alternators, it's the battery switch being turned off while the engine is running that CAN be harmful. But even removing the battery from a running engine has never killed an alternator when I've tried it. (hey, I was just a kid! )
solenoid. That in turn shuts off the fuel. Then a timer shuts off a relay and then power to the shut-off solenoid ceases. My diesel tractor can be heard 'clicking' when the timer no longer holds the fuel pump off. I can't hear my truck doing the same. But it's a modern marvel. (Duramax) Hell, it even has electronic injectors. They fire several times on each power stroke depending on the throttle setting. The days of diesels running forever until the fuel is manually shutoff are ending. I hear Yanmar is going to the same type of injectors. It has to do with the government regulators mandating cleaner air. Of course that cleanliness will never be 'good enough'. A mandated improvement will always be forthcoming. We can't have our bureaucrats with nothing to do, can we?
And zap-stops just save the alternator from accidental battery disconnects, not ignition key shutoffs. The key being turned off only kills power to the regulator (field). That just turns off the alternator, not kill the power to the diodes. The main power wire going out from the alternator (charge wire) is still hot. Just like with any vehicle. Turning the key off doesn't turn off the battery's. And many battery selector switches even have a provision for maintaining alternator field power to prevent damage during battery shut-offs with the engine running. In short, it's not the key being turned off that kills alternators, it's the battery switch being turned off while the engine is running that CAN be harmful. But even removing the battery from a running engine has never killed an alternator when I've tried it. (hey, I was just a kid! )a vote for simplicity
John Ehricht's orginal post disclosed that for his new Hunter 36 the pushbutton shutdown does not displace the manual shutdown which he uses when the electric shutdown fails. So much for the superior dependability of electro-mechanical devices over mechanical devices Here is a link to cable maintenance, a simple and easily understood procedure. http://shop.torresen.com/marine_diesel_direct/Yanmar/index.php?p=include&contentname=stop_cable&contentsection=yanmar&pagetitle=Stop+Cables+For+Yanmar+Marine+Engines Fred Ficarra, your shutoff solenoid operation you evidently are recommending may work for you. I'm just not sure you should be touting it for replication. It reminds me of the wonderful Rube Goldberg contrivances I used to pore over and admire as a boy. In your shutoff sequence, an off key position energizes a timer which energizes a relay which energizes a solenoid which cuts off the fuel which stops the engine. Then when the timer turns off, (after the engine has ceased rotating hopefully) the relay turns off and the solenoid turns off and the fuel is available again at the injection pump. If the timer malfunctions, it doesn't shut down. If the relay malfunctions, it doesn't shut down. If the engine doesn't stop rotating before the timer expires, it fires right back up probably to the great consternation of the operator. Not a good model either for dependability or even safety, both primary considerations for a marine auxiliary engine.
John Ehricht's orginal post disclosed that for his new Hunter 36 the pushbutton shutdown does not displace the manual shutdown which he uses when the electric shutdown fails. So much for the superior dependability of electro-mechanical devices over mechanical devices Here is a link to cable maintenance, a simple and easily understood procedure. http://shop.torresen.com/marine_diesel_direct/Yanmar/index.php?p=include&contentname=stop_cable&contentsection=yanmar&pagetitle=Stop+Cables+For+Yanmar+Marine+Engines Fred Ficarra, your shutoff solenoid operation you evidently are recommending may work for you. I'm just not sure you should be touting it for replication. It reminds me of the wonderful Rube Goldberg contrivances I used to pore over and admire as a boy. In your shutoff sequence, an off key position energizes a timer which energizes a relay which energizes a solenoid which cuts off the fuel which stops the engine. Then when the timer turns off, (after the engine has ceased rotating hopefully) the relay turns off and the solenoid turns off and the fuel is available again at the injection pump. If the timer malfunctions, it doesn't shut down. If the relay malfunctions, it doesn't shut down. If the engine doesn't stop rotating before the timer expires, it fires right back up probably to the great consternation of the operator. Not a good model either for dependability or even safety, both primary considerations for a marine auxiliary engine.
Too Technical
You guys are getting too technical for me. The last three times we took the boat out, we had to shut the 3GM30 down with the manual shut off because the red button would not work. Are you saying that the problem could be with the way the battery selector switch is set? We always know that we should leave the key "ON".
You guys are getting too technical for me. The last three times we took the boat out, we had to shut the 3GM30 down with the manual shut off because the red button would not work. Are you saying that the problem could be with the way the battery selector switch is set? We always know that we should leave the key "ON".
Cranking Batt ON
When I joined the Southern [Chesapeake] Bay Hunter Sailing Association for their initial raft-up this spring I was rafted next to a 2005 Hunter 38. They had the same problem. They could not get their engine to shut down. Problem was for that boat (and likelly for yours) the CRANKING BATTERY had to switched ON to get power to activate the fuel shut off solenoid. The skipper had turned off the cranking battery. When he switched it back on, the shut off worked. Hope your problem is that simple.
When I joined the Southern [Chesapeake] Bay Hunter Sailing Association for their initial raft-up this spring I was rafted next to a 2005 Hunter 38. They had the same problem. They could not get their engine to shut down. Problem was for that boat (and likelly for yours) the CRANKING BATTERY had to switched ON to get power to activate the fuel shut off solenoid. The skipper had turned off the cranking battery. When he switched it back on, the shut off worked. Hope your problem is that simple.
Simpler, fail-safe solution?
Am I missing a simpler solution? Why not install a spring on the fuel shutoff that keeps it OFF. Then install a solenoid so that when it's OFF the fuel is shut OFF by the spring, and when it is ON it overcomes the spring and the fuel is turned ON. Then wire the solenoid so that it is turned ON by turning the key ON. That way there is no way the engine can be getting fuel when the key is off, regardless of which battery is used, or any electrical condition which results in no power to the solenoid. It would be truly fail-safe and truly simple and thus reliable. The only different requirement from what you guys have described is that the solenoid must be one that is rated for continuous duty. That type of solenoid will also draw very little current so it won't draw off any significant battery charging current. What would be wrong with such a setup? Why would it not be better than any other?
Am I missing a simpler solution? Why not install a spring on the fuel shutoff that keeps it OFF. Then install a solenoid so that when it's OFF the fuel is shut OFF by the spring, and when it is ON it overcomes the spring and the fuel is turned ON. Then wire the solenoid so that it is turned ON by turning the key ON. That way there is no way the engine can be getting fuel when the key is off, regardless of which battery is used, or any electrical condition which results in no power to the solenoid. It would be truly fail-safe and truly simple and thus reliable. The only different requirement from what you guys have described is that the solenoid must be one that is rated for continuous duty. That type of solenoid will also draw very little current so it won't draw off any significant battery charging current. What would be wrong with such a setup? Why would it not be better than any other?
Re-invent the wheel
My electric shut down button was getting more and moore difficult on my Yanmar 3GM30F. Looking at the system, I found that no modifications have been done to the engine, and that the electric signal was pulling a short shut-down wire via an electro-magnet. The system was not properly alligned and my wire was worn. I re-invented the wheel by removing the electromagnet and installed an old fasion control wire. So now I have a good old fashion black handle at the top of my stairs to stop the engine. ( No electronics to go wrong). I also have a red button on my panel, which may be used for something else in the future.
My electric shut down button was getting more and moore difficult on my Yanmar 3GM30F. Looking at the system, I found that no modifications have been done to the engine, and that the electric signal was pulling a short shut-down wire via an electro-magnet. The system was not properly alligned and my wire was worn. I re-invented the wheel by removing the electromagnet and installed an old fasion control wire. So now I have a good old fashion black handle at the top of my stairs to stop the engine. ( No electronics to go wrong). I also have a red button on my panel, which may be used for something else in the future.
Hey Ivan
Are going to be at your boat over Labor Day weekend? I told Joan we were going to Dry Dock for dinner Sat night. I'm still interested in finding out about the deisel smell you were getting and how it was solved. Jim S/V Java
Are going to be at your boat over Labor Day weekend? I told Joan we were going to Dry Dock for dinner Sat night. I'm still interested in finding out about the deisel smell you were getting and how it was solved. Jim S/V Java
not fail safe, just different
Ivan, the trouble with this approach is that a failure is guaranteed to shut down your engine, maybe at a time when you really want it on...
Ivan, the trouble with this approach is that a failure is guaranteed to shut down your engine, maybe at a time when you really want it on...
Hi Jim.
Sorry to be so late in getting back to you. We were going to be on an HSA-1 raft in St. Mary's river but Ernesto took care of that. We decided that due to Marlene's ongoing health problems we would pass on Labor day weekend and get to the boat some other time. Sorry to miss you. The diesel fuel smell is still a total mystery and not solved. Best to the Admiral Ivan
Sorry to be so late in getting back to you. We were going to be on an HSA-1 raft in St. Mary's river but Ernesto took care of that. We decided that due to Marlene's ongoing health problems we would pass on Labor day weekend and get to the boat some other time. Sorry to miss you. The diesel fuel smell is still a total mystery and not solved. Best to the Admiral Ivan
Battery Selector Switch on "Both"
We did check the battery selector switch and it has always been on "Both", so this is not the problem. It has now become very consistant that it will not shut off the Yanmar. Anyone have any other ideas?
We did check the battery selector switch and it has always been on "Both", so this is not the problem. It has now become very consistant that it will not shut off the Yanmar. Anyone have any other ideas?
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