While motoring back to the marina, my 3GMF lost power and a substantial amout of black smoke came out of the exhaust. Attempts to raise the RPMs were unsuccessful, but I was able to crawl back to my slip. At the slip, I attempted to raise the RPMs but after just a few seconds the RPMs dropped to idle. I also saw black raw diesel coming out of the exhaust. Since then I have replaced the lift pump, had the rack on the fuel injection pump fixed after it was discovered to have been slightly bent, and had the fuel injection valves replaced because according the repair shop they were shot. However, I still can't get the engine to fire up. It turnsover but it doesn't fire. I do have fuel and I have bled the lines over and over again. I do have fuel and fuel is getting to the fuel injections. However, I did find that the rack in the fuel injection pump is always fully opened no matter what. For example, when the throttle is moved to the full throttle position and then back to the neutral position; the rack never moves. My experience is very limited and I haven't found a reliable shop to look at my engine. So, if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know what else I can try to get this engine running again. Thank You
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Wynn Ferrel
Did you check your filters
On my 340, and so I'll assume on your 34, there is a filter between the engine and the fuel tank called a Racor filter --- It is manufactured by Racor. This is your first defense against water in the filter. It should be checked and the bowl drained often (depending on engine usage) and the filter replaced annually, if not more freguently depending on usage. Mine filled up with water and choked off good fuel to the engine and mine died instantly. Secondly, there is another smaller filter in a bowl attached to the side of the engine (starboard side on mine). This should be checked and changed as above. The color of the diesel smoke is important. You said black. I think white smoke is associated with water in the fuel --- but, do check the filters and change if necessary. And lastly, a reson you may not be able to restart your engine is that you have an air lock in the lines. Have you bled the air? Check the archives for bleeding air procedures. Wayne Esatabrooks went through this whole procedure some time ago. In addition to what he wrote, there is a screw (looks like a phillips head screw) on the front starboard top of your engine that when unscrewed will allow air to escape from the fuel pump. My dealer put me on to that one. That was the final problem keeping my engine from firing. So, change the filters, bleed the air by using the pump on the rear starboard side of the engine (see archives), open fuel pump bleeding screw (for lack of a better name - my manual is not handy) and give it a try. Also, I purchased a book that is worth its weight in gold on diagnosing and fixing marine diesel engines. It's on the boat. If you are interested, I'll get the name and source for you this weekend. Email me off line at wferrel@earthlink.net. Good luck. Hope that's all that's troubling your engine. Wynn Ferrel S/V Tranquility
On my 340, and so I'll assume on your 34, there is a filter between the engine and the fuel tank called a Racor filter --- It is manufactured by Racor. This is your first defense against water in the filter. It should be checked and the bowl drained often (depending on engine usage) and the filter replaced annually, if not more freguently depending on usage. Mine filled up with water and choked off good fuel to the engine and mine died instantly. Secondly, there is another smaller filter in a bowl attached to the side of the engine (starboard side on mine). This should be checked and changed as above. The color of the diesel smoke is important. You said black. I think white smoke is associated with water in the fuel --- but, do check the filters and change if necessary. And lastly, a reson you may not be able to restart your engine is that you have an air lock in the lines. Have you bled the air? Check the archives for bleeding air procedures. Wayne Esatabrooks went through this whole procedure some time ago. In addition to what he wrote, there is a screw (looks like a phillips head screw) on the front starboard top of your engine that when unscrewed will allow air to escape from the fuel pump. My dealer put me on to that one. That was the final problem keeping my engine from firing. So, change the filters, bleed the air by using the pump on the rear starboard side of the engine (see archives), open fuel pump bleeding screw (for lack of a better name - my manual is not handy) and give it a try. Also, I purchased a book that is worth its weight in gold on diagnosing and fixing marine diesel engines. It's on the boat. If you are interested, I'll get the name and source for you this weekend. Email me off line at wferrel@earthlink.net. Good luck. Hope that's all that's troubling your engine. Wynn Ferrel S/V Tranquility
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Bryan C.
Other things to check
Sounds like your problem is lack of aspiration. First check the air filter, make sure nothing is restricting intake. But probably, you have a clogged exhaust system, and probably it is at the exhaust elbow that is clogged or corroded. That has been the case for several people to described symptoms similar to yours. Check the archives for more on this issue and how to change your elbow. They are not expensive.
Sounds like your problem is lack of aspiration. First check the air filter, make sure nothing is restricting intake. But probably, you have a clogged exhaust system, and probably it is at the exhaust elbow that is clogged or corroded. That has been the case for several people to described symptoms similar to yours. Check the archives for more on this issue and how to change your elbow. They are not expensive.
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Wynn Ferrel
Good book-"Troubleshooting Marine Diesels"
I made reference to this book in a prior post. Several people have emailed me asking for the particulars on the book. It is "Troubleshooting Marine Diesels" by Peter Compton. It has great troubleshooting tables and flow charts, plus lots of excellant picures and diagrams. Well written and easy to understand. Below is a link to a site where it can be purchased. I would assume Amazon.com would have it, also. Wynn Ferrel S/V Tranquility
I made reference to this book in a prior post. Several people have emailed me asking for the particulars on the book. It is "Troubleshooting Marine Diesels" by Peter Compton. It has great troubleshooting tables and flow charts, plus lots of excellant picures and diagrams. Well written and easy to understand. Below is a link to a site where it can be purchased. I would assume Amazon.com would have it, also. Wynn Ferrel S/V Tranquility
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Tim
FIRE YOUR MECHANIC!!
Louis: Good advice from previous posts, but the BEST advice I could possibly give you is to FIRE THE IDIOTS WHO DIDN'T FIX YOUR 3GMF. At the very least get them back (on their own nickle) and do the job right! I've had a similar problem with a local Yanmar repair shop and almost had to take them to court to get them to properly complete a relatively simple repair. Stand up for your rights!! Good luck. Tim L.
Louis: Good advice from previous posts, but the BEST advice I could possibly give you is to FIRE THE IDIOTS WHO DIDN'T FIX YOUR 3GMF. At the very least get them back (on their own nickle) and do the job right! I've had a similar problem with a local Yanmar repair shop and almost had to take them to court to get them to properly complete a relatively simple repair. Stand up for your rights!! Good luck. Tim L.
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Louis Batalla
Steve Dion
Hi Steve, I have my boat at the Presidio Yacht Club at Ft Baker. This tiny marina is basically under the north tower of the Golden State Bridge.
Hi Steve, I have my boat at the Presidio Yacht Club at Ft Baker. This tiny marina is basically under the north tower of the Golden State Bridge.
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Louis Batalla
Brian C.
Thanks for the information. This past weekend I disconnect the hose from the silencer and cranked the motor over. At first I saw black water coming out of and then clear water, However, I didn't see a lot of smoke drom the hose. So, is this normal or should I take your advise an inspect the elbow.
Thanks for the information. This past weekend I disconnect the hose from the silencer and cranked the motor over. At first I saw black water coming out of and then clear water, However, I didn't see a lot of smoke drom the hose. So, is this normal or should I take your advise an inspect the elbow.
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Louis Batalla
Louis, if push comes to shove....
call Richmond Boat Works. They know their stuff. They are extremely knowledgable about Yanmars. I have had them work on my engine and have been very satisfied with the work and price.
call Richmond Boat Works. They know their stuff. They are extremely knowledgable about Yanmars. I have had them work on my engine and have been very satisfied with the work and price.
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Richard
Yanmar
Think about it. Black smoke is unburned fuel. You can get this with a porp that is fouled or exaust system clogged, carbon in the exaust elbow is very common. Exaust elbows should be inspected every year.. They are considered a consumable item by Yanmar, like filters.
Think about it. Black smoke is unburned fuel. You can get this with a porp that is fouled or exaust system clogged, carbon in the exaust elbow is very common. Exaust elbows should be inspected every year.. They are considered a consumable item by Yanmar, like filters.
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Bryan C.
Probably the elbow ...
I don't know if it would be normal to see black water coming out of the exhaust hose before the silencer, however, it does indicate an amount of carbon, consistent with a plugged elbow. As far as your throttle being stuck open, if that had happened your RPMs would have maxed, which you did not indicate as a symptom. I'd suggest checking to make sure your prop, but you said that you are having problems even starting the engine so it's not that. If you were getting smoke and bogging even in nuetral, its not a load problem from propulsion. If I were in your shoes, I would order a new elbow. It's not that expensive; they are about $100. You can DYI or have a mechanic change it. It is possible the smoke could be other things, but a number of HOW members have reported black smoke symptoms very similar to yours and later indicated the problem was a clogged or corroded elbow. I'd guess that is your problem too. By the way, coking up the exhaust is a reason why you should run your engine under load (ie 75-80% of rated RPM). Long term idle or low RPMs cause coking, among other bad things. When I first got my boat, the previous owner never ran it above 2200 RPM (3400 rated RPM), thinking it was "bad" for it. The reverse is true! First time I took it up to 2500, thick black smoke poured out. But over time I was gradually able to blow it out, and can now run at 2750 RPM with no smoke at all. For the same reason I also max out RPM ~3700 for 2 seconds, then( idle for ~10) just before I shut down. Blows out any crud accumulated from the day. This, however, is not a Yanmar recommned procedure (to my knowledge) and there has been debate over whether this is a necessary or worthwhile procedure.
I don't know if it would be normal to see black water coming out of the exhaust hose before the silencer, however, it does indicate an amount of carbon, consistent with a plugged elbow. As far as your throttle being stuck open, if that had happened your RPMs would have maxed, which you did not indicate as a symptom. I'd suggest checking to make sure your prop, but you said that you are having problems even starting the engine so it's not that. If you were getting smoke and bogging even in nuetral, its not a load problem from propulsion. If I were in your shoes, I would order a new elbow. It's not that expensive; they are about $100. You can DYI or have a mechanic change it. It is possible the smoke could be other things, but a number of HOW members have reported black smoke symptoms very similar to yours and later indicated the problem was a clogged or corroded elbow. I'd guess that is your problem too. By the way, coking up the exhaust is a reason why you should run your engine under load (ie 75-80% of rated RPM). Long term idle or low RPMs cause coking, among other bad things. When I first got my boat, the previous owner never ran it above 2200 RPM (3400 rated RPM), thinking it was "bad" for it. The reverse is true! First time I took it up to 2500, thick black smoke poured out. But over time I was gradually able to blow it out, and can now run at 2750 RPM with no smoke at all. For the same reason I also max out RPM ~3700 for 2 seconds, then( idle for ~10) just before I shut down. Blows out any crud accumulated from the day. This, however, is not a Yanmar recommned procedure (to my knowledge) and there has been debate over whether this is a necessary or worthwhile procedure.
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Bryan C.
PS on elbow change
I think our own Steve Dion posted an excellent photo essay about changing an elbow -- wasn't that you Steve? Search the photo archives for "elbow"
I think our own Steve Dion posted an excellent photo essay about changing an elbow -- wasn't that you Steve? Search the photo archives for "elbow"
Yes Brian it was me!
The only thing that is confusing here is that Louis was motoring back to the marina when he lost power. If the elbow is the real problem why would this just happen all of a sudden? I do not disagree that the elbow should be checked. When I did mine, I just ordered a new one and now I have the old one as a backup. After reading his post again, I think that the injection pump needs to be checked. Louis is only about a 30-45 min motor sail from Richmond Boat Works, if he can get the boat over there they can check it out for him.
The only thing that is confusing here is that Louis was motoring back to the marina when he lost power. If the elbow is the real problem why would this just happen all of a sudden? I do not disagree that the elbow should be checked. When I did mine, I just ordered a new one and now I have the old one as a backup. After reading his post again, I think that the injection pump needs to be checked. Louis is only about a 30-45 min motor sail from Richmond Boat Works, if he can get the boat over there they can check it out for him.
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