Xantrex Freedom Charger/Inverter CMOS Battery?

duck21

.
Jul 17, 2020
177
Hunter 376 0 Washburn, WI on Lake Superior
Hi!

A quick bit of context: I'm in a northern climate where the water gets hard, so we haul out each winter/re-float each spring. When laying up for winter I always pull the positive cable on my house battery as a part of the winterizing process.

When we went to remove our cover a few weeks ago I re--connected the battery and plugged the boat into shore power (long extension cord). The house battery was pretty much at 100%, but no harm in having the charger on and we needed AC power for other things a we did work. At the end of the days maintenance I unplugged and coiled my power cable, flipped all the DC breakers off, and flipped the battery selector switch to "Off" just as I have done for previous seasons.

I came back about two weeks later and found my battery dead...as in, when I plugged in the shore power the charger started alerting and my Balmer showed 0 hours available....after a few choice words I plugged things in and let it start recharging. But, I had no idea as to why it would have drained this year when its never been a problem previously. At the end of that work day (I had other projects that needed to get done with the weather window) I pulled the positive cable again and headed home.

I was back yesterday (we launch on Monday) and had some time to dig in a bit further. It turns out that when I kill the AC power (unplug shore power or turn off the AC breaker for the charger) the charger (a Xantrex 1800 HF) is going into "Inverter" mode, which draws .5 amps even when nothing is plugged in, (with a low voltage cut off when the battery gets below 12V). That .5V draw for two weeks is definitely what ran things down.

According to the manual the system defaults to have the inverter turn "on" when AC power is removed. We've had the boat for four years, I'll actually admit, I mostly didn't even remember the unit had an inverter (I'd read it in the manual at some point, but it's not positioned where the plug is accessible and I've never used it). The previous owner (who installed the Xantrex one or two years before we bought the boat) must have changed the default setting on the inverter to "Off" when AC power is removed. Which is my preferred method as well.

I'm assuming there may be a CMOS battery (like on PC's, to remember settings between boots) in the Xatnrex that remembers settings when disconnected form AC and DC power...but I'm not seeing any reference in the manual or online. If so, I'm guessing that battery needs replacing. Ideally I wouldn't have to remember to re-set that option every time I disconnect the house battery (which isn't often, which also means there's a chance I'll forget to reset this next time).

I'm wondering if anyone on this group is familiar with the Xantrex chargers and has any can confirm as to whether there is an internal battery (and maybe even remember the battery size).

I'm going to reach out to Xantrex as well. And I may just pull the charger and disassemble and check -- but it's a bit of a pain to access/remove, so ideally I'd come armed with a plan before disassembling things.

If I hear back from Xantrex I'll update here as well, just for the record.

Thanks!
 

JamesG161

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Feb 14, 2014
7,745
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
My Xantrex does this.

1) Set as default "Invert off"
2) Control the Battery Charge, which is programmed for your Selected Battery Type.

Charging a Battery
1) Required External source of 120VAC (Shore power or Boat Generator)
2) Charging Controller now does its thing.

How does any Controller Know when to stop Bulk Charge and do the "Float Charge"?

It is called Control Circuit FEEDBACK.

Just like your car battery charger knows when to Float Charge

The small "0.5V" is the FEEDBACK and normal in the Float Charge mode.

Jim...
 

duck21

.
Jul 17, 2020
177
Hunter 376 0 Washburn, WI on Lake Superior
Hi Jim,

The .5amp draw (so -.5amp on my Balmer) is there when the AC power is disconnected -- so it's not a float, as the charger isn't in charging mode.

When I reach in and press the power button to turn off the inverter (AC power disconnected) the draw goes away (Balmer shows 0.0 amps in either direction). This jives with the Xantrex manual, which says system the factory default is to have the inverter on when AC power is removed.

Default state can be changed to inverter off (which I prefer), but the unit is no longer remembering this when I disconnect the house battery -- which is a change, as I've never had to reset from factory default "on" to my default "off."

I don't disconnect the house battery often during the season, but would like the unit to remember my default when situations come up that do require battery disconnects.
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
22,784
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
  • Helpful
Likes: JamesG161

duck21

.
Jul 17, 2020
177
Hunter 376 0 Washburn, WI on Lake Superior
I called Xantrex, I received mixed information.

The first person I spoke to said "Yes, there is a battery. Let me go get some more information." She then put me on hold for a few minutes, then accidentally(?) hung up when she tried to reconnect.

I called back, a second (different) person replied to my question with "There are no user serviceable parts and we don't service these units." I asked specifically if there was a battery, she repeated "There are no user serviceable parts." I mentioned that it used to remember settings between DC power disconnects, she responded with "Yes. But from now on you'll have to manually reset things."

I tried calling a third time but reconnected with the same person as the second call.

SO...it sounds maybe there is a battery, but they don't really support digging in....

Which, of course, means that once I get things settled for the season I may dig in. If it's a huge pain (parts glued together, no way to remove the top cover with out breaking things) then I'm not going to trash my charger, of course, and I'll resign myself to adding "change the power down setting" to the seasonal launch prep task list.

If it does come apart smoothly I'll take some pictures and document things and post the experience here, for the sake of posterity and for future Xantrex owners.

Thanks, everyone!
Doug
 

duck21

.
Jul 17, 2020
177
Hunter 376 0 Washburn, WI on Lake Superior
My manual also makes no reference to a CMOS battery (lots of clicks searching the word "battery" in a battery charger manual). But, it's also not really a service manual, so I'm not fully trusting it as the source of authority.

I examined the manual.. Of course this is just one manual. It may not be for the equipment you are using.

There was no mention of a CMOS like chip battery. This would appear to me that the data storage on the unit is not volatile. Does not require a battery to maintain the entered data.
 
  • Ha
Likes: jssailem
May 17, 2004
5,549
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
I don’t know for sure how Xantrex implements their storage, but I’d be pretty surprised if there were a CMOS style battery. The battery in a PC is more about keeping the clock running than setting storage. Helping store settings is just a handy side effect. A battery charger has no need for a real time clock, so it probably just uses rewritable EEPROM for the settings.

Disconnecting a cable from the battery is the better practice when you’re leaving the boat ashore unattended anyway. Even if you find an inverter with no parasitic draw chances are something else on the boat will have some parasitic load anyway (for example bilge pump electronic float switches, stereo radio memory circuits, etc). It’s also generally a better practice to disconnect the negative cable instead of the positive. Either way will break the circuit, but if your wrench touches something grounded when you’re attaching/disconnecting the positive cable it’ll be much more exciting than if you’re working on the ground cable.
 
Jan 7, 2011
5,459
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
How old are the batteries? I find it hard to believe that 2 weeks off power, well-charged and healthy batteries would be totally discharged from a parasitic load.

I do not have an inverter, and I have 215 AH house bank using 2) 6-volt golf cart batteries. Over the winter here in the Chicago area, I will typically just disconnect the ground from the bank. In the spring, I reconnect the ground, plug in the charger if I can get power in the yard and all is good.

A few years ago, I had some work to do over the winter and parked the boat near an outlet in the yard. I left the batteries connected and when I was working on the boat, I had the charger on. I left the boat to go to Hawaii for for several weeks, and upon return the batteries were fine.

Any chance the monitor was out of whack? I use a cheap Renogy monitor, and after launch this year, the monitor went to zero state of charge several times. Very disconcerting when it happened, but the boat started fine….so maybe a loose connection somewhere. It has been several weeks since this happened and all seems fine.

I went to my digital Volt Meter right away to verify my batteries were not flat…

Good luck…

Greg
 
  • Like
Likes: LloydB