What would be the potential structural damage to a 33MKII if it had water standing 6 inches above the cabin sole for 6 months? That may or may not have been frozen in place? If you were looking to buy one would you run away from this one?
Would you run?
- Thread starter keester03
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I suspect the consensus would be run away but there are always extenuating circumstances, the most important being price. The sole is shot as are probably anything else of importance which was submerged (including the engine?).
A definite candidate for a thorough survey paid for by you.
If nothing else, anyone who allowed that to happen certainly never maintained the boat well which is usually sufficient reason in itself to pass.
A definite candidate for a thorough survey paid for by you.
If nothing else, anyone who allowed that to happen certainly never maintained the boat well which is usually sufficient reason in itself to pass.
Thats a lot of boat if its salvageable, and IF it didnt freeze, or freeze solid. If it only got cold enough to partially freeze, it may have survived. But if that much water froze rock solid it could have done so much structural damage it would cost way more than the boat would be worth to repair.
Depending on the seller and the asking price, It could be well worth the cost of a qualified surveyor to offer an opinion, if nothing more than to tell you to walk away.
But without someone qualified actually seeing it or inspecting it, all any of us can do is guess. It would be a shame to condemn it based solely on assumptions, if there isn't really anything wrong with it.
Depending on the seller and the asking price, It could be well worth the cost of a qualified surveyor to offer an opinion, if nothing more than to tell you to walk away.
But without someone qualified actually seeing it or inspecting it, all any of us can do is guess. It would be a shame to condemn it based solely on assumptions, if there isn't really anything wrong with it.
Thanks Clanker,
That's sound advice. A survey is definitely a must.
What do you know about the structure below the sole? Is the rib construction glass over wood? I know that the hull below the waterline is not cored on a 33 MKII. I'm wondering if the ribs are wood covered with glass, if there are any holes through the ribs for wires and such and not treated with resin, the ribs could be rotten.
That's sound advice. A survey is definitely a must.
What do you know about the structure below the sole? Is the rib construction glass over wood? I know that the hull below the waterline is not cored on a 33 MKII. I'm wondering if the ribs are wood covered with glass, if there are any holes through the ribs for wires and such and not treated with resin, the ribs could be rotten.
Consider to do a 'pre-survey', inspecting especially the bulkheads and other PLYWOOD structures that were submerged ... as these usually come apart (glue failure) and quickly begin to rot after being submerged. The rot and ply separation will start from the 'ends' / edges of panels, etc.
If and only if the PLYWOOD structures are intact where they were submerged, then consider to proceed with a paid-for formal survey. You can 'sound' them with a small plastic hammer to find the 'trouble spots', etc. simply by tapping and comparing the sound to non-submerged zones as a 'go-by'.
If you do this, consider to get a copy of Don Casey's book: "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" before you do your 'pre-survey' http://www.amazon.com/Inspecting-Sa...UTF8&qid=1366297959&sr=8-5&keywords=Don+casey
If and only if the PLYWOOD structures are intact where they were submerged, then consider to proceed with a paid-for formal survey. You can 'sound' them with a small plastic hammer to find the 'trouble spots', etc. simply by tapping and comparing the sound to non-submerged zones as a 'go-by'.
If you do this, consider to get a copy of Don Casey's book: "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" before you do your 'pre-survey' http://www.amazon.com/Inspecting-Sa...UTF8&qid=1366297959&sr=8-5&keywords=Don+casey
If the water was over the floorboards I would be very concerned about the structural bulkheads as well. Do not know this boat specifically but almost all boats the bulkheads will be plywood glassed to the side of the hull. If the bulkheads are saturated then delamination and rotting are very likely. Even if that's not a problem where the bulkheads are glassed to the hull could be pulling away.
I would call this an extremely high risk buy. The boat would have be be cheap or free and the buyer with limited budget, lots of time and lots of DIY skills to make this workable.
I would call this an extremely high risk buy. The boat would have be be cheap or free and the buyer with limited budget, lots of time and lots of DIY skills to make this workable.
Thanks Rich,
This boat is looking like a major project.
The sole definitely needs replacement, corners are shredding and lifting up, delaminating just the way you have described. The bottom edges of the paneling (up to 4" above the sole) all around the cabin are stained. I would need to inspect them further in order to confirm if they are delaminating. But they only looked stained not flakey like the corners of the sole.
For the right price though, I might look past the cost of replacing this wood if there is no problem with the "spider" structure below.
Another issue is potential wet core in the cabin roof evidenced by rust marks on the head liner around snaps fitted by PO. I suspect the outside cabin top hand rail anchors are the culprit. The rails need replacement due to neglect and they look like are probably leaking.
Another thing I noticed is that the hull/deck joint has squeezed out all the butyl along all of the areas I inspected, if it leaks, I don't think any tightening of the bolts will fix it. So replacing all the butyl along the joint might need to be done.
There is also a long list of items I would need to add to the boat to get it to be as functional as I would like.
A big project indeed.
This boat is looking like a major project.
The sole definitely needs replacement, corners are shredding and lifting up, delaminating just the way you have described. The bottom edges of the paneling (up to 4" above the sole) all around the cabin are stained. I would need to inspect them further in order to confirm if they are delaminating. But they only looked stained not flakey like the corners of the sole.
For the right price though, I might look past the cost of replacing this wood if there is no problem with the "spider" structure below.
Another issue is potential wet core in the cabin roof evidenced by rust marks on the head liner around snaps fitted by PO. I suspect the outside cabin top hand rail anchors are the culprit. The rails need replacement due to neglect and they look like are probably leaking.
Another thing I noticed is that the hull/deck joint has squeezed out all the butyl along all of the areas I inspected, if it leaks, I don't think any tightening of the bolts will fix it. So replacing all the butyl along the joint might need to be done.
There is also a long list of items I would need to add to the boat to get it to be as functional as I would like.
A big project indeed.
Water expands when it freezes solid. It will even crack or stretch solid steel in the process, fiberglass has zero resistance to the effect. Just like a Minnesota highway, each time it freezes it makes cracks. Each time it melts the water seeps in deeper, freezes, opens up the cracks, makes more cracks, and the cracks work deeper into the structure....freeze thaw, freeze thaw, pretty soon its busted to smithereens.
Tread carefully, whatever you do.
Tread carefully, whatever you do.
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