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Brian Pickton
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Nov. 6, 2000 Dear Nelson, Are you sure what your looking at is an Oceanis 320 and not either the F325 or Idylle 10.5? The reason I ask is because a check of the records with Beneteau reveals they were making on Oceanis 350, 390, 430 and 500 back in 1988, but I cannot find a record for an Oceanis 320. However, while I am a fan of Beneteau, I am not the absolute final expert on all of the models Beneteau makes or made, but Beneteau is, and I suggest that you call them at their customer service desk: ph.843-423-6459 and find out for yourself if the boat is being correctly described. If I’ve got it wrong I would really appreciate hearing back from you and I can add this information to my file. Obviously I cannot comment on the pros and cons of a boat unless I am certain that I have the right model. The other two boats I mention fit the time frame and here’s a quick description so you can compare it to what you are seeing and perhaps identify the boat yourself. To easily identify the F 325 you will find that the interior layout has a starboard quarter berth and the galley is on the port side and the head is also on the port side, aft of the galley. The Idylle 10.5 had the quarter berth on the port side and the galley was also on the port side forward in the saloon opposite the settee. The f325’s vital statistics included: loa: 32’5”, lwl 27’ 9” , beam 11’ 1/2” total sail area was about 624 sq ft. The Idylle was a bigger boat characterized by a longer cabin house and measured loa: 34.4’, lwl : 28.2’ ( note the relatively longer overhang), draft :4’8”. With respect to whether the boat your looking at is “ an offshore boat” is a different issue, and one that usually has less to do with the boat and more to do with the skill of the crew. My favorite example of this is Joshua Slocum and the Vessel “Spray”. Slocum rebuilt Spray from a beached derelict. It was an absolute dog to sail. This didn’t stop Slocum, a master mariner, from completing the world’s first known solo circumnavigation around the turn of the century. Maybe some marine historians can help us out, was it 1898 to 1903 that Slocum circumnavigated? I’d also like to refer you to another web site run by my friends Tom and Linda Waid, called “The Voyage of The Bellatrix”. They are returning to the states after doing a Caribbean cruise in their 28 foot Beneteau. They have equipped there boat well, they know how to maintain it, and they are both competent sailors. There are of course many other examples of remarkable voyages in small vessels: John Guzzwell’s circumnavigation in 21 foot Trekka, Tania Abei’s circumnavigation in a Contessa 26, a tribute to her considering the boat is small, wet and didn’t even have standing headroom. A real poor choice of a boat for a circumnavigation in my opinion, but once again it was the skill and determination of the sailor, not the boat, that made it happen. So to address your question whether the vessel your considering is an offshore boat more directly, is the boat your looking at well maintained? Do the systems work? Will they support your needs for weeks or months at sea? Do you know how to maintain them? Can you hand,splice and steer? Too often people put to sea with too little skill and too much boat. Were seeing that in the Baja HAHa rally where the boats are getting larger and better equipped and the sailors are getting less competent. A big boat is no substitute for sailing skill and a little boat is no deterrent to long distance voyaging. The Oceanis series is designed to go cruising, but is it an Oceanis that you are looking at? I hate to end on a generality like that, but if you can follow up on the boat make we can try to discuss the pros and cons of the particular model more thoroughly. I look forward to hearing back from you, and as poor an answer as it is, I hope it of some help to you. Brian Pickton @ BeneteauOwners.net, Aboard the Legend on a rainy day in Rodney Bay, St. Lucia
Nov. 6, 2000 Dear Nelson, Are you sure what your looking at is an Oceanis 320 and not either the F325 or Idylle 10.5? The reason I ask is because a check of the records with Beneteau reveals they were making on Oceanis 350, 390, 430 and 500 back in 1988, but I cannot find a record for an Oceanis 320. However, while I am a fan of Beneteau, I am not the absolute final expert on all of the models Beneteau makes or made, but Beneteau is, and I suggest that you call them at their customer service desk: ph.843-423-6459 and find out for yourself if the boat is being correctly described. If I’ve got it wrong I would really appreciate hearing back from you and I can add this information to my file. Obviously I cannot comment on the pros and cons of a boat unless I am certain that I have the right model. The other two boats I mention fit the time frame and here’s a quick description so you can compare it to what you are seeing and perhaps identify the boat yourself. To easily identify the F 325 you will find that the interior layout has a starboard quarter berth and the galley is on the port side and the head is also on the port side, aft of the galley. The Idylle 10.5 had the quarter berth on the port side and the galley was also on the port side forward in the saloon opposite the settee. The f325’s vital statistics included: loa: 32’5”, lwl 27’ 9” , beam 11’ 1/2” total sail area was about 624 sq ft. The Idylle was a bigger boat characterized by a longer cabin house and measured loa: 34.4’, lwl : 28.2’ ( note the relatively longer overhang), draft :4’8”. With respect to whether the boat your looking at is “ an offshore boat” is a different issue, and one that usually has less to do with the boat and more to do with the skill of the crew. My favorite example of this is Joshua Slocum and the Vessel “Spray”. Slocum rebuilt Spray from a beached derelict. It was an absolute dog to sail. This didn’t stop Slocum, a master mariner, from completing the world’s first known solo circumnavigation around the turn of the century. Maybe some marine historians can help us out, was it 1898 to 1903 that Slocum circumnavigated? I’d also like to refer you to another web site run by my friends Tom and Linda Waid, called “The Voyage of The Bellatrix”. They are returning to the states after doing a Caribbean cruise in their 28 foot Beneteau. They have equipped there boat well, they know how to maintain it, and they are both competent sailors. There are of course many other examples of remarkable voyages in small vessels: John Guzzwell’s circumnavigation in 21 foot Trekka, Tania Abei’s circumnavigation in a Contessa 26, a tribute to her considering the boat is small, wet and didn’t even have standing headroom. A real poor choice of a boat for a circumnavigation in my opinion, but once again it was the skill and determination of the sailor, not the boat, that made it happen. So to address your question whether the vessel your considering is an offshore boat more directly, is the boat your looking at well maintained? Do the systems work? Will they support your needs for weeks or months at sea? Do you know how to maintain them? Can you hand,splice and steer? Too often people put to sea with too little skill and too much boat. Were seeing that in the Baja HAHa rally where the boats are getting larger and better equipped and the sailors are getting less competent. A big boat is no substitute for sailing skill and a little boat is no deterrent to long distance voyaging. The Oceanis series is designed to go cruising, but is it an Oceanis that you are looking at? I hate to end on a generality like that, but if you can follow up on the boat make we can try to discuss the pros and cons of the particular model more thoroughly. I look forward to hearing back from you, and as poor an answer as it is, I hope it of some help to you. Brian Pickton @ BeneteauOwners.net, Aboard the Legend on a rainy day in Rodney Bay, St. Lucia
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Nelson Ramirez
Response to Brian Pickton
Dear Brian; Thanks for your time and kindness for writing the vital information. The boat I am talking about is a Beneteau model build for the Sunsail Charter Co., I supposed the same way they do with the mooorings. I will call the ph number you gave me, to find out all the data I need. As soon as get the information I will write it for you to upgrade your files. In relation to, if the boat is an offshore boat or not?, I agree with you that the sailor will make the difference and not the boat. Please, take a look at www.yachtworld.com there are a couple of Beneteaus Oceanis 320's, for sale. Thanks again; Nelson Ramirez
Dear Brian; Thanks for your time and kindness for writing the vital information. The boat I am talking about is a Beneteau model build for the Sunsail Charter Co., I supposed the same way they do with the mooorings. I will call the ph number you gave me, to find out all the data I need. As soon as get the information I will write it for you to upgrade your files. In relation to, if the boat is an offshore boat or not?, I agree with you that the sailor will make the difference and not the boat. Please, take a look at www.yachtworld.com there are a couple of Beneteaus Oceanis 320's, for sale. Thanks again; Nelson Ramirez
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Brian Pickton
Beneteau 320
Nov.12,2000 Dear Nelson, I took a look as you suggested at the yachtworld site and checked the specs on the two 320's in your neighborhood and here is what I think. What I see are under equipped charter boats. The price is a litle high for a boat that is going to need a lot of equipment upgrades for real long distance cruising. Negotiate it sharply down ward. I have no qualms about the basic seaworthiness of the design, the boat itself will get you where you want to go. Check what gear there is for wear. A tiller instead of wheel steering is not the negative a lot of people think. There are autopilots (tiller pilots) that are quite adequate for the job, the tiller gives excellent fedback on whether your sails are trimmed correctly, and it can be pushed up out of the way to make room in the cockpit for lounging. I've always enjoyed steering with a tiller. Nor (unlike a lot of salts) do I have any problems with the galley set up opposite the settee instead of an L or U shaped galley. As long as the cook can brace themselves this set up works. Water tankage at 95 US gallons is adequate - and you can supplement that with a rain catcher (we do this and have 210 galons of water tankage) or a water maker. - get one that does at least 18 gallons an hour. They cost more but you run the engine less to make more water. Now here are the things that concern me: 1) volvo diesels are cheap for the mfg. to install but very expensive to maintain and they have the poorest reputation for reliability in the marine industry. Although some people like volvo diesels I don't and personally I would not by a boat that has one. For me it's a deal breaker, but that just shows the depth of my antipathy to this engine. Of course that hasn't stopped thousands of people from buying them. Just know that parts for volvos are about twice as expensive as they are for any other make. 2) Fuel tankage at 13 gallons is way to small. I would view about 35 gallons as the minmum I would like to have. 35 gallons if you are a determined sailor is enough - just read some of Hal Roth's books and see how he and Margaret did it.. The most we have burned at one time in 8000 mile of voyaging was 44 gallons and that turned out to be excessive ( the electric selonoid shut off failed as we left an anchorage and I had to manually stop the engine, so let it run until we got to the next anchorage and so burned about 16 more gallons than needed. I could have been more patient and used a lot less over all as well.) 3) Electronics - for all intents and purposes there aren't any. You will want vhf, autopilot, gps, as a minimum, and then short list watermaker,ssb, radar. The batteries will likely need an upgrade to handle this. 4) Cooker - the galleys OK but the stove top has got to go. Is that an Origo alcohol stove I see? You need a stove with 3 burners and an oven for serious offshore or liveaboard life. With propane fuel and all that goes with it. Better add refrigeration to your list as well, I didn't see that in the spec list and chasing ice gets old in a hurry.(We don't have refrigeration). 5) There's only one anchor and I bet its (a) under size and (b) has got a rope road. You need two anchors both a correct size, and one of which needs to be set on all chain, and you need 180 feet of that at a minimum. Save the rope road for the kedge. 6) How are the sails, and how many are there? Got a storm jib and a light weight cruising chute with sock? Three reef points in the main? 7) Your going to need a dinghy, out board etc. Now add up the cost of all of the upgrades you think you will need, add the costs of installing them all, add that to the purchase price and ask yourself if you are geting a good deal or if you might do better casting your net a litle farther a field for a used boat that is better equipped. Good Luck on the hunt. Brian Pickton@BeneteauOwners.net Aboard the Legend, Rodney Bay St. Lucia
Nov.12,2000 Dear Nelson, I took a look as you suggested at the yachtworld site and checked the specs on the two 320's in your neighborhood and here is what I think. What I see are under equipped charter boats. The price is a litle high for a boat that is going to need a lot of equipment upgrades for real long distance cruising. Negotiate it sharply down ward. I have no qualms about the basic seaworthiness of the design, the boat itself will get you where you want to go. Check what gear there is for wear. A tiller instead of wheel steering is not the negative a lot of people think. There are autopilots (tiller pilots) that are quite adequate for the job, the tiller gives excellent fedback on whether your sails are trimmed correctly, and it can be pushed up out of the way to make room in the cockpit for lounging. I've always enjoyed steering with a tiller. Nor (unlike a lot of salts) do I have any problems with the galley set up opposite the settee instead of an L or U shaped galley. As long as the cook can brace themselves this set up works. Water tankage at 95 US gallons is adequate - and you can supplement that with a rain catcher (we do this and have 210 galons of water tankage) or a water maker. - get one that does at least 18 gallons an hour. They cost more but you run the engine less to make more water. Now here are the things that concern me: 1) volvo diesels are cheap for the mfg. to install but very expensive to maintain and they have the poorest reputation for reliability in the marine industry. Although some people like volvo diesels I don't and personally I would not by a boat that has one. For me it's a deal breaker, but that just shows the depth of my antipathy to this engine. Of course that hasn't stopped thousands of people from buying them. Just know that parts for volvos are about twice as expensive as they are for any other make. 2) Fuel tankage at 13 gallons is way to small. I would view about 35 gallons as the minmum I would like to have. 35 gallons if you are a determined sailor is enough - just read some of Hal Roth's books and see how he and Margaret did it.. The most we have burned at one time in 8000 mile of voyaging was 44 gallons and that turned out to be excessive ( the electric selonoid shut off failed as we left an anchorage and I had to manually stop the engine, so let it run until we got to the next anchorage and so burned about 16 more gallons than needed. I could have been more patient and used a lot less over all as well.) 3) Electronics - for all intents and purposes there aren't any. You will want vhf, autopilot, gps, as a minimum, and then short list watermaker,ssb, radar. The batteries will likely need an upgrade to handle this. 4) Cooker - the galleys OK but the stove top has got to go. Is that an Origo alcohol stove I see? You need a stove with 3 burners and an oven for serious offshore or liveaboard life. With propane fuel and all that goes with it. Better add refrigeration to your list as well, I didn't see that in the spec list and chasing ice gets old in a hurry.(We don't have refrigeration). 5) There's only one anchor and I bet its (a) under size and (b) has got a rope road. You need two anchors both a correct size, and one of which needs to be set on all chain, and you need 180 feet of that at a minimum. Save the rope road for the kedge. 6) How are the sails, and how many are there? Got a storm jib and a light weight cruising chute with sock? Three reef points in the main? 7) Your going to need a dinghy, out board etc. Now add up the cost of all of the upgrades you think you will need, add the costs of installing them all, add that to the purchase price and ask yourself if you are geting a good deal or if you might do better casting your net a litle farther a field for a used boat that is better equipped. Good Luck on the hunt. Brian Pickton@BeneteauOwners.net Aboard the Legend, Rodney Bay St. Lucia
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Nelson Ramirez
To Brian Pickton
Dear Brian; People like you is what makes worthwhile the cybernet space. I appreciate your time and effort for what you have done for me. In relation to the equipment that comes with the boat, there is a list that does not appear in the site. Most of the equipment recomended by you I already have from my former boat (Hunter 34, 1986). Accordingly with your recomedations the bottom line of the equipment I need is the storm jib, water maker, change the fuel tank or add another to the capacity needed (If the space to install it is available). The stove you saw is a two burner propane gas. My main concerned was if the boat was strong enough for offshore cruising. In relation to the engine probably I will changed it eventually. I made an offer of 20 % off the asking price, I dont know if that is too low for them to accept the offer. But any way, for the budget I have there is no a better deal in this area. Again, thanks very much for every thing, you have a cybernet friend in me. I hope some day I may reciprocate you. ( my E-mail is N_RAMIREZ@upr.edu)
Dear Brian; People like you is what makes worthwhile the cybernet space. I appreciate your time and effort for what you have done for me. In relation to the equipment that comes with the boat, there is a list that does not appear in the site. Most of the equipment recomended by you I already have from my former boat (Hunter 34, 1986). Accordingly with your recomedations the bottom line of the equipment I need is the storm jib, water maker, change the fuel tank or add another to the capacity needed (If the space to install it is available). The stove you saw is a two burner propane gas. My main concerned was if the boat was strong enough for offshore cruising. In relation to the engine probably I will changed it eventually. I made an offer of 20 % off the asking price, I dont know if that is too low for them to accept the offer. But any way, for the budget I have there is no a better deal in this area. Again, thanks very much for every thing, you have a cybernet friend in me. I hope some day I may reciprocate you. ( my E-mail is N_RAMIREZ@upr.edu)
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