Question for any "winged keel" sailors - I have the possibility of docking my 27 foot Catalina in a bayou near my house but there most likely will be times, especially in the winter here when the keel will be on the bottom. Bottom is sand/mud/muck - total draft of boat is 3.5 feet and I'm guessing worst case the tide & wind combo may leave depth of 2+. I know this isn't the best situation (definately slows down the boat huh?) but will it do any real harm? Appreciate the help!
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Rick Webb
Not a Problem After a While
The keel is going to wallow out it's own hole. The fist couple of times it gets that shallow I would make sure the cleats on either the boat or the dock will handle keeping the boat upright if it starts to lean.
The keel is going to wallow out it's own hole. The fist couple of times it gets that shallow I would make sure the cleats on either the boat or the dock will handle keeping the boat upright if it starts to lean.
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Peter
Structurally you should be fine, however....
My wing-keeled H23 rides on the trailer with its full weight (close to 3000 lb with all the gear aboard) resting on the keel (the side bunks just keep it from tipping over. You should be able to do the same as long as the boat remains essentially upright. However, as the water level falls, more weight will get transferred to the keel and push it deeper into the bottom. The boat may not float free when the water level rises again and if it rises very quickly, you might rip the keelbolts out of the hull. Since the bottom doesn't sound too sticky, you should be able to use a garden hose with a nozzle taped to a pole and wash the keel free when the time comes. Good luck. Peter H23 "Raven"
My wing-keeled H23 rides on the trailer with its full weight (close to 3000 lb with all the gear aboard) resting on the keel (the side bunks just keep it from tipping over. You should be able to do the same as long as the boat remains essentially upright. However, as the water level falls, more weight will get transferred to the keel and push it deeper into the bottom. The boat may not float free when the water level rises again and if it rises very quickly, you might rip the keelbolts out of the hull. Since the bottom doesn't sound too sticky, you should be able to use a garden hose with a nozzle taped to a pole and wash the keel free when the time comes. Good luck. Peter H23 "Raven"
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William Fraser
rudder
Watch your rudder, if it bears weight, damage could occur. If it's not as deep as your keel, should be okay. In areas where there is a highn tidal range, this is a common occurrence.
Watch your rudder, if it bears weight, damage could occur. If it's not as deep as your keel, should be okay. In areas where there is a highn tidal range, this is a common occurrence.
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Tom Monroe
what about the wings?
I'm thinking that vertical forces on the keel itself would not cause a significant problem, but I'm wondering whether the wings could get bent. I seem to recall some discussion on this problem during recent posts/discussions on soft groundings. You might look back in recent archives. Also, the tiller is definately an issue. On some wing keel designs, the tiller grounds first, much less after you have a foot of keel in the mud. Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
I'm thinking that vertical forces on the keel itself would not cause a significant problem, but I'm wondering whether the wings could get bent. I seem to recall some discussion on this problem during recent posts/discussions on soft groundings. You might look back in recent archives. Also, the tiller is definately an issue. On some wing keel designs, the tiller grounds first, much less after you have a foot of keel in the mud. Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
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Stan Rogacevicz
I Wouldn't Do It
Bill, I'm an owner and big fan of wing keels. I think the normal grounding fears of a wing getting sucked in not being able to get unstuck are over blown but the situation you are describing sounds like it might sink in so deep over time that you would need a helicopter to pull it out. Stan "Christy Leigh" c320 #656
Bill, I'm an owner and big fan of wing keels. I think the normal grounding fears of a wing getting sucked in not being able to get unstuck are over blown but the situation you are describing sounds like it might sink in so deep over time that you would need a helicopter to pull it out. Stan "Christy Leigh" c320 #656
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DJ Slaby
Wings do bend
I had a soft grounding with my Hunter 290....lasting 90 minutes. Six months later, my boat was pulled for other work and found the wings gently curving upward. Hunter said it may affect performance (i.e.lift), and has surfaced with Great Lake sailboats with wing keels when the water level declined. He said they used a hammer to straighten them out.....sounded scarey! Will investigate further.
I had a soft grounding with my Hunter 290....lasting 90 minutes. Six months later, my boat was pulled for other work and found the wings gently curving upward. Hunter said it may affect performance (i.e.lift), and has surfaced with Great Lake sailboats with wing keels when the water level declined. He said they used a hammer to straighten them out.....sounded scarey! Will investigate further.
Burying wing keels
Ultimately, a lot will depend on the design of your particular keel. My keel is cast iron with wings about twice as long as they are wide, mounted about three inches above the bottom of the keel. I've grounded my boat several times on both hard and soft bottoms. The most trouble I had was in soft mud, and was only able to break the boat free with a combination of side-to-side rocking to loosen the mud and reverse thrust from the engine to wash the loosened mud out from around the wings. If the bottom is so soft that the boat runs the risk of sinking into it, the rudder should sink in as well without any danger. Of course, if the rudder happens to hit something hard like a tree root, all bets are off. It should be easy enough to probe the bottom with a long pole before you commit to a possible grounding. Peter H23 "Raven"
Ultimately, a lot will depend on the design of your particular keel. My keel is cast iron with wings about twice as long as they are wide, mounted about three inches above the bottom of the keel. I've grounded my boat several times on both hard and soft bottoms. The most trouble I had was in soft mud, and was only able to break the boat free with a combination of side-to-side rocking to loosen the mud and reverse thrust from the engine to wash the loosened mud out from around the wings. If the bottom is so soft that the boat runs the risk of sinking into it, the rudder should sink in as well without any danger. Of course, if the rudder happens to hit something hard like a tree root, all bets are off. It should be easy enough to probe the bottom with a long pole before you commit to a possible grounding. Peter H23 "Raven"
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Geof
Side to side stress? Anti-Siphon? More Questions...
I don't know the answer to this, but if the boat becomes stuck enough to hold the wings in the bottom, and then the water returns and tries to float the boat, or rock it laterally, what will these forces do the structural integrity of the boat? Also, if the wings get real stuck, (can this happen?) how much lift is neccesary to raise the boat before water starts entering the boat through through-hulls and other points? For instance, if the water raises 6 feet, and the boat is stuck into the mud enough so that it has difficulty overcoming the suction of the bottom on the wings. The draft of the boat is something like 3 feet, will you need an additional 3 feet of freeboard before a wake breaks over the gunwale? Also, if your anti-siphon points are below the outside water level and your through-hulls are open, how do you keep the rising tide out? These are all theoretical questions, but having been stuck about mid-calf deep in the muck in a shallow harbour once, and it was like walking in taffy, I wonder what a bulb on the bottom of a wing will act like. And finally, what will you stand on to help free the boat from the bottom when it gets stuck? Won't your feet sink too? Just my $.02. Geof Day-O
I don't know the answer to this, but if the boat becomes stuck enough to hold the wings in the bottom, and then the water returns and tries to float the boat, or rock it laterally, what will these forces do the structural integrity of the boat? Also, if the wings get real stuck, (can this happen?) how much lift is neccesary to raise the boat before water starts entering the boat through through-hulls and other points? For instance, if the water raises 6 feet, and the boat is stuck into the mud enough so that it has difficulty overcoming the suction of the bottom on the wings. The draft of the boat is something like 3 feet, will you need an additional 3 feet of freeboard before a wake breaks over the gunwale? Also, if your anti-siphon points are below the outside water level and your through-hulls are open, how do you keep the rising tide out? These are all theoretical questions, but having been stuck about mid-calf deep in the muck in a shallow harbour once, and it was like walking in taffy, I wonder what a bulb on the bottom of a wing will act like. And finally, what will you stand on to help free the boat from the bottom when it gets stuck? Won't your feet sink too? Just my $.02. Geof Day-O
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Bill P.
Thanks1
Appreciate all the info and opinions - going to do some more measuring and see what's up. Bill
Appreciate all the info and opinions - going to do some more measuring and see what's up. Bill
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