Wind Speed

stevebirch2002 · Jul 4, 2003

Hi

Check the bottom you will be surprised how much it can slow you down. I lose nearly two knots by the end of August and I launch in April. I now dry out halfway through the season and just scrape off any barnacle etc.

Regards

Steve Birch

wxt8981 · Jul 4, 2003

Hi Steve,

I agree with you; I clean my boat about every 3 to 4 weeks and I too,
feel the difference in speed
right away. Bottom paints are not that good any more, there is always a
build-up of some kind of
slime. And on the prop there are always some barnacles! Besides- it's
good exercise!

Wilhelm, V-257

Steve Birch wrote:

wxt8981 · Jul 4, 2003

Hi:

sailt trim is very important! Switch to a genoa in light air, and don't
flatten the main too
much. Play with the sails- I see many sailboats close-houled, no matter
where the wind
comes from and then they wonder why I'm passing them. And then- don't
worry about
the Sunfishes and Lasers- when the wind picks up- you're going to be way
ahead of them!

Wilhelm, V-257

sailfreak57 wrote:

bv0820 · Jul 5, 2003

Greeting from the Fl East...clean bottom necessary for
anyone...I delayed in having the bottom done and it is
a miracle that I didn't sail in reverse. Also, if you
can fold the prop..Combi..you'll gain..ask Wilhem
pointed out sail selection and trim. I am going to
invest in a real light cruising spinnaker..had one on
a Catalina 22 and it was like surfing in light winds

Best

Bob Vogel
Laughing Gull

stevebirch2002 · Jul 6, 2003

Hi

15 degrees is a good heel angle. I tend to put a reef in the main at about 18 knots. Then furl a bit on the genoa if it picks up. Reef early rather than late otherwise you will go fast sideways and away from where you are trying to go. Just have a play and see what happens with different reefing in different winds and different point of sail.

Kind Regards

Steve Birch

brockhaus77 · Jul 6, 2003

Hi all,

Since we're on the subject of "speed", I have 2 related questions:
Yesterday, I was sailing in a 20-25 kn breeze, unfortunately blowing
exactly from the direction I had to go in (WSW). I reefed the mainsail
twice (no problem), but when I rolled in the genoa a bit as well, I
found that I couldn't get as close to the wind as before. This seems to
make sense since the genoa (and/or sheets) still have to go around all
the shrouds, so shortening the genoa makes for a larger average angle
with the centerline, hence less close haul. Are there any tricks you
know of how to get around this problem? I ended up beating endlessly
back and forth against a 2 kn current, taking hours to gain a few
miles.
I admit that I tried cheating by running the motor, at least to get
through the main channel quickly. However, that's where my second
problem became apparent (not the first time): Obviously, my Vetus
diesel (nominal 10 hp) is too weak OR the prop doesn't have the right
dimension - I just couldn't get it to push the Vega at more than 2-3
knots relative speed with a stiff breeze on the bow, which means
practially NO headway in the aforementioned 2 kn current. If I run the
engine at 2400 rpm's, I cannot even push the Vega to its hull speed (5
or 6 knots?) in dead calm water (more like 4 knots tops), and if I run
it higher, it overheats. I should say that I have the bottom and screw
cleaned every 4 weeks. I even inspected the propellor, and it looked
fine, just too small for such a big (for me) boat. It has 3 blades each
5" long - it seems there is enough space for at least 7" blades (14"
diameter). Anyway, although I know we all are proud SAILORS and disdain
using the motor, I believe it SHOULD be able to push the Vega at about
5 knots through the water, even in adverse winds, just for safety in an
emergency. Any thoughts about this?

- Sebastian

wxt8981 · Jul 6, 2003

Hi Sebastian;

with this kind of breeze you should be making 6+ mph close hauled, or
topping 7 mph on
a close reach.Though I don't reef the main, but rather go from a genoa
to a jib and if necessary
to the storm jib. I do reef the mail with the storm jib- but that's
rare because I try to seek shelter
when a gale comes up. I've sailed through gales, but then sailing is no
longer 'fun', one starts to think
about His Maker.

I also run my engine if necessary, and I don't think it's cheating when
my life is at stake. My engine
pushes me about 6+ mph in calm sea- and thus far enough to get me
through a channel with the
wind on the nose and a current running against me.

I don't know why you don't make more headway with your engine, maybe you
need a different
prop- I hope some body can give you better advise... good luck!

Wilhelm, V-257

brockhaus77 wrote:

stevebirch2002 · Jul 6, 2003

Hi Seb

The best thing for the furling genoa is to have something like a Number 3 Jib with a bolt rope. This can be swapped in higher winds for the furling genoa. This will give a much better shape and you will be able to point much better. Once you have more than a couple of rolls in the foresail you loose shape and therefore pointing ability.

Your prop sounds much too small. For a Vega with the engine you are talking about should have something like a 12 x 8 3 blade prop. This will give you about 6 - 6.5 knots in calm conditions. If the engine is overheating there is another problem that should be addressed. Check cooling systems etc.

Kind RegardsSteve Birch VEga "Southern Comfort" V1703

s_demont · Jul 6, 2003

I agree with Steve. In gusty winds on SF Bay, I reef the main once or twice, depending on wind speed and sea state. This keeps the boat at a decent heel (15 degrees or so) without a lot of excess lateral movement that you get when you have too much cloth up. I keep my 110 foresail rolled completely out for power, and very seldom reef it in.

Reefing the main alone works well. My Vega is well-balanced with this configuration. She's not overpowered in a blow--weather helm and lateral movement is greatly reduced--and she moves pretty fast with the genoa completely out. I get a kick out of passing boats of similar size, or slightly larger, when they don't reef in.

If you read the handbook, it'll describe how to set your sails in winds of various speeds.

Cheers,
Steve DeMont
"Erendira"
Vega 2947

Steve Birch steve@... wrote:
Hi

15 degrees is a good heel angle. I tend to put a reef in the main at about 18 knots. Then furl a bit on the genoa if it picks up. Reef early rather than late otherwise you will go fast sideways and away from where you are trying to go. Just have a play and see what happens with different reefing in different winds and different point of sail.

Kind Regards

Steve Birch

towlerg · Jul 6, 2003

Hi Sebastian

I have a Vetus 10hp also, and a two blade fixed prop. It powers the
boat quite happily in a seaway. Not sure about speeed thro water as I
don't have a log (SOG from GPS is much more interesting anyway)but
certainly hull speed at less than max revs. I'll be happy to pass on
any info about my config.

Rgds

George Towler "Vista" 1043

tjelle1946 · Jul 6, 2003

Hi all--re gps--we sailed south on Okanagan Lake last October-last run of the season--gps was very interesting--we did 11km/hr with just the jib and gps gives accurate readings. jorgen

brockhaus77 · Jul 7, 2003

Hi all,

thanks for all the advice. I do think I might have made a mistake by
rolling up the genoa too much - the 2 reefs in the mainsail should
have sufficed (and given me a well-balanced trim with little weather
helm). However, since I might need it in case of a REAL blow: what is
a "number 3 jib"? How does that translate into dimensions (of leech,
luff and foot)? Did one come originally with the Vega? I only have one
"regular" jib which seems not much smaller than the roller furling
genoa...
About motoring: please forgive my ignorance, but what is a "12 by 8"
prop? As I said, mine has 3 blades, each about 5" long which seems
awfully small for a boat this size. I also realize (actually, I knew
this before) that something isn't quite right with the cooling. I can
get the engine to turn at least 3000 rpm with full throttle, but when
I tried that once for more than a few minutes, the cooling liquid
started to boil (although it had the proper amount of antifreeze in
it) - white steam coming out everywhere! I suspect that my heat
exchanger needs a major overhaul (or replacement) - it seems nobody
has changed the zinc on it for years (none left) and there is residue
on all surfaces. I also had trouble with my raw water pump earlier - I
bought some new parts from Vetus, but it still has a slow dripping
leak (should that matter, though?). Anyway, I'd be very interested in
more information from George Towler ("Vista" 1043) about his Vetus: Do
you have a users operations and maintenance manual? (I only have a
spare parts catalog and a small manual for mechanics.) What is the
highest rpm you can safely run at without overheating? How fast would
your Vega go in that case? (GPS speed is fine if you are in fairly
calm water without strong currents). How fast would you go at 2500
rpms? (that's about as fast as I can continuously run the motor.) Do
you know what reduction the gearbox has?

Thanks - Sebastian

stevebirch2002 · Jul 7, 2003

Hi Seb

The largest will be the Genoa then the largest Jib is a No. 1 then a No. 2
then
the small No.3. After that you go to a storm jib. I dont know the exact
dimensions but I am sure someone on the group will know.

A 12x8 prop is tip of blade to tip of blade is 12" which sounds about teh size
of yours. If yopu measure the balde length times it by two then add the
diameter of the center hub that will give you the size of the prop. The pitch
(8") is the amount the prop would move forward in inches during one
revolution.

Cant help on the cooling as I do not know the engine at all. Good luck and
perhaps George will cast some light on the engione side.

Regards

Steve BirchAt 13:35 07/07/03 +0000, you wrote:

floroyenbe · Jul 7, 2003

Hi Sebastian,

If your Vetus engine is the M2. C5 (you should check at the back of the
engine) then this is a Mitsubishi based engine. The maximum rpm is 3000.
This engine is an intercooled engine and you should clean the heat
exchanger, which is a job I do every year. Make shure you have the rubber
seals before you start the job.
On my Vega the M2.06 was installed , 11.8 kW or 15hp, which is sometimes
not powerful enough for the currents over here.
I have some technical information on the M2.06, some of it might help, but I
think that will find more at the Vetus website in Holland.
www.vetus.nl also in English. You can also mail them, e-mail on the
website, they are very helpful.
Hope this helps.
I"m of for a few days sailing now.
Flor Oyen
"Mohana" V-566

brockhaus77 · Jul 7, 2003

My Vetus is an M2.05 (indeed marinized Mitsubishi). If you have trouble
with a 15 hp one, maybe 10 hp is just too darn litte! What do you do to
clean the heat exchanger? And what are those rubber seals you refer to?
Thanks for the advice! - Sebastian

towlerg · Jul 7, 2003

Hi Sebastian,

sorry mate don't have a rev counter, and manuals for engine and
gearbox on boat. I'll post details after next trip to boat. My Vetua
is M2.05, approx. 10 years old, it's actually a Mitsubishi dumper
engine which has been marinised by Vetus. I have both Vetus and
Mitsubishi owners manuals (not workshop).

I have motored for extended periods (6ish hours) at 5ish knots. Sorry
to be so vaugue but as long as I have steerage way I don't take to
much notice. I'll try a flat out blast down the bay at slack water
and see how high I can get the SOG.

Let me know if you need any more info.

Rgds

George Towler "Vista" 1043

mphalv · Jul 8, 2003

Ist motor issue.
Suspect overheating related to clogged heat exchanger. Suggest contating
Vetus or local distributor for Vetus for shop manual and parts to see if you want
to tackle the job yourself or hire a mechanic.

2nd prop issue
Check around for a prop shop that sells and repairs propellors. They have
books and should be able to help you. There was a book(long out of print)
called the Propellor Book which listed all the conditions that affect props and
fancy calculations. Too much for my head but maybe you can find it. I would
find a decent helpful prop shop.
Also Vetus can help. The pitch on the prop is crucial because the prop is
nothing more than a screw. If the pitch is too flat, no power and cavitation:
too steep and black smoke because it overpowers the engine. Thats why I
recommend a prop shop.

Paul
Double Fantasy
Bangor Maine

brockhaus77 · Jul 9, 2003

Hi y'all,

thanks for all the good advice - I now have several leads to work on.
I did get in contact with Vetus who claim that this particular engine
(M2.05, about 20 years old) should be able to run at 3600 RPMs. At
that speed, I'm sure I can get the Vega up to 5+ knots, but alas, as
of now I would immediately overheat the engine. So I'll have to work
on cleaning the heat exchanger and check all the other possible
problems (thermostat, exhaust manifold,...). BTW, when you guys quote
a "engine temperature" of about 50C that the thermostat is supposed to
keep constant, where is that temperature measured? I don't have
anything like a thermometer (just an "overheat" alarm light and buzzer).
I'll let you know if and when I solve this problem...
- Sebastian