I'd love to have self-tailing winches on my Oday 28, but the cost is prohibitive. I have seen these advertised, and they look to be a simple fix to an expensive need. I'd be interested in any comments from those of us who use them on their jib sheets, particularly a larger boat with a big headsail like a 150 Gen. I think my big question is "do they hold without slipping?". Thanks.
Wincher Self-Tailers
- Thread starter flyhop
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I hear....
that there a waste of $. I assume you are speaking of the blue rings. On my previous boat, Oday 25, I was tempted to try a pair, but never did. I do know that you MUST read and follow the directions for them to be effective. It seems that you must make many turns on the drum and "pile up" the line under the ring for them to work. In other words, it's not as simple as just making a round in the groove and cranking away. Maybe someone will sound off who's used them. You are correct...the tailers are pricy, but oh how convienient.
that there a waste of $. I assume you are speaking of the blue rings. On my previous boat, Oday 25, I was tempted to try a pair, but never did. I do know that you MUST read and follow the directions for them to be effective. It seems that you must make many turns on the drum and "pile up" the line under the ring for them to work. In other words, it's not as simple as just making a round in the groove and cranking away. Maybe someone will sound off who's used them. You are correct...the tailers are pricy, but oh how convienient.
Winchers
They work great. But They do not make your winches self tailing. I put them on my last boat, a Glouchester 22 with a 150 genoa on a furler. The winchers hold the sheets in their groove without any slipping. Once you have the sail sheeted the way you want it, you just wrap the sheet in the wincher groove. Also works well if you want to uncleat the sheet in a hurry. I completely quit using my cleats. They take a little muscle to install because they are such a tight fit on the winch. On my first try, one sprung out of my hands into the drink. Easiest to use 2 people. I currently have a 28.5' boat with ST winches for the sheets but I also have in-mast furling and the furling winch has a wincher. I do not need the holding function but the wincher enables me to use the winch as a sort of ST. If you put enough wraps around the winch, in my case 4, you can get away without continusously tailing the line. The down side is that since there is not a stripper like on a real st winch, the line will continue to wrap itself around the winch unless you pull it out as you crank. If you currently have to fool around securing your sheets to a cleat, get the Winchers. Good Luck Bill
They work great. But They do not make your winches self tailing. I put them on my last boat, a Glouchester 22 with a 150 genoa on a furler. The winchers hold the sheets in their groove without any slipping. Once you have the sail sheeted the way you want it, you just wrap the sheet in the wincher groove. Also works well if you want to uncleat the sheet in a hurry. I completely quit using my cleats. They take a little muscle to install because they are such a tight fit on the winch. On my first try, one sprung out of my hands into the drink. Easiest to use 2 people. I currently have a 28.5' boat with ST winches for the sheets but I also have in-mast furling and the furling winch has a wincher. I do not need the holding function but the wincher enables me to use the winch as a sort of ST. If you put enough wraps around the winch, in my case 4, you can get away without continusously tailing the line. The down side is that since there is not a stripper like on a real st winch, the line will continue to wrap itself around the winch unless you pull it out as you crank. If you currently have to fool around securing your sheets to a cleat, get the Winchers. Good Luck Bill
Rubber rings
Flyhop, I had them on the original winches for my jib sheets and they don't work real well. I bought a pair of used self tailers at a consignment shop for $300 - worth every penny. Ellis
Flyhop, I had them on the original winches for my jib sheets and they don't work real well. I bought a pair of used self tailers at a consignment shop for $300 - worth every penny. Ellis
Used ST winches?
Yeah, I'm asking about those blue rubber rings from Watski (sp?). I realize it's a cheap fix and won't work like a true ST. Good information about large #s of sheet wraps. I had read that they work pretty well on halyards, but ST would really help on my being able to sail single-handed. Wife's not wild about sailing in the winter. That's why I'm asking about shortcomings or rave reviews. Or just plain experience. I have perused eBay for used ST winches and looked for deals on the internet, but nothing for less than $800. Ellis, I could maybe scrape together $300 but how to find!! Suggestions? Thanks for the continued input.
Yeah, I'm asking about those blue rubber rings from Watski (sp?). I realize it's a cheap fix and won't work like a true ST. Good information about large #s of sheet wraps. I had read that they work pretty well on halyards, but ST would really help on my being able to sail single-handed. Wife's not wild about sailing in the winter. That's why I'm asking about shortcomings or rave reviews. Or just plain experience. I have perused eBay for used ST winches and looked for deals on the internet, but nothing for less than $800. Ellis, I could maybe scrape together $300 but how to find!! Suggestions? Thanks for the continued input.
Not much help
I've got them on my primaries, and they don't help a lot. You do need to put a lot of wraps on the winch to get the sheet to hold itself against the ring. But then if you want to ease the sheet, you have to unwind like 5+ wraps to release enough friction to allow the sheet to run. (With a ST winch, you can release the sheet from the "cleat" at the top of the ST winch without taking off any wraps, and ease much more quickly and easily.) I've found that it's quicker and easier to just take enough wraps on the winch to provide enough friction to hold the sheet with a turn or 2 of the sheet around a jam cleat than to use the winchers. They're still on my primaries, but are never used.
I've got them on my primaries, and they don't help a lot. You do need to put a lot of wraps on the winch to get the sheet to hold itself against the ring. But then if you want to ease the sheet, you have to unwind like 5+ wraps to release enough friction to allow the sheet to run. (With a ST winch, you can release the sheet from the "cleat" at the top of the ST winch without taking off any wraps, and ease much more quickly and easily.) I've found that it's quicker and easier to just take enough wraps on the winch to provide enough friction to hold the sheet with a turn or 2 of the sheet around a jam cleat than to use the winchers. They're still on my primaries, but are never used.
Wincher
They don't work very well as self-tailers, but do work well as cleats. Just wrap the line around and into the groove , and it holds very well.
They don't work very well as self-tailers, but do work well as cleats. Just wrap the line around and into the groove , and it holds very well.
I think they're great
I have had a pair on my Oday 23 primary winches for six years, and they work exactly as advertised. They are way worth the money. When the sheets are properly wrapped, you can winch in the sheet just as if you had a self-tailing winch. I have used the winchers with my 100% and 130% foresails. They aren't perfect, but I wasn't about to spend hundreds on replacement winches. A couple of caveats: they don't last forever. They are made of rubber and will eventually deteriorate. I noticed this year that the sheets actually slipped once or twice while "self tailing" in high winds. The winchers will need to be replaced. I hope to get a couple of more seasons out of them. I would much rather spend about $60 every eight years than about $1000 for replacement winches (not to mention the time it would take me to install the new winches!) Also, it is slightly more convenient to use the winchers with larger (diameter) sheets; fewer wraps are necessary in order to make the winch self tail, as well as there are fewer to unwrap when tacking. I see that others just haven't liked the product, but that hasn't been my experience.
I have had a pair on my Oday 23 primary winches for six years, and they work exactly as advertised. They are way worth the money. When the sheets are properly wrapped, you can winch in the sheet just as if you had a self-tailing winch. I have used the winchers with my 100% and 130% foresails. They aren't perfect, but I wasn't about to spend hundreds on replacement winches. A couple of caveats: they don't last forever. They are made of rubber and will eventually deteriorate. I noticed this year that the sheets actually slipped once or twice while "self tailing" in high winds. The winchers will need to be replaced. I hope to get a couple of more seasons out of them. I would much rather spend about $60 every eight years than about $1000 for replacement winches (not to mention the time it would take me to install the new winches!) Also, it is slightly more convenient to use the winchers with larger (diameter) sheets; fewer wraps are necessary in order to make the winch self tail, as well as there are fewer to unwrap when tacking. I see that others just haven't liked the product, but that hasn't been my experience.
Ebay all the way
I think ebay could be your answer. I bought two(2) Lewmar selftailing winches #16 in Bronze that were brand new for $350 dollars apiece.In fact all the equiptment I've needed I bought on Ebay. I have had great success there.The retail price for one winch was $799.00 John Tucker Jerry's Wish 1978 MacVenture 25
I think ebay could be your answer. I bought two(2) Lewmar selftailing winches #16 in Bronze that were brand new for $350 dollars apiece.In fact all the equiptment I've needed I bought on Ebay. I have had great success there.The retail price for one winch was $799.00 John Tucker Jerry's Wish 1978 MacVenture 25
They're great
Altogether too many people don't like them because they think the line should go through the "jaws." Wrong, doesn't work like that: just put three wraps as usual on the winch and the tailing builds up below and makes them work. Used them on a C25 on SF Bay with a 110 jib in high winds for 11 years. Couldn't be happier. Stu PS try a forum archive search on Winchers - you'll find this discussion has been had many times before. Finally: NADYA GOT TO LOSE? For $20 to $40 you can try them. That's a way small percentage of new or even used real self tailers.
Altogether too many people don't like them because they think the line should go through the "jaws." Wrong, doesn't work like that: just put three wraps as usual on the winch and the tailing builds up below and makes them work. Used them on a C25 on SF Bay with a 110 jib in high winds for 11 years. Couldn't be happier. Stu PS try a forum archive search on Winchers - you'll find this discussion has been had many times before. Finally: NADYA GOT TO LOSE? For $20 to $40 you can try them. That's a way small percentage of new or even used real self tailers.
Used ST winches
Flyhop, I found them at a consignment shop in Mystic, CT called Boat Stuff. They are a pair of Barlow 22's. Single speed, but geared down. Ellis
Flyhop, I found them at a consignment shop in Mystic, CT called Boat Stuff. They are a pair of Barlow 22's. Single speed, but geared down. Ellis
worth every $
I bought the winchers this year off ebay and have had no problems whatso ever. I agree getting them on was almost impossible. I used grease to help ease them on the winch. As for holding power, I use them on my 150 and they work as advertised. Havent tried them on 20+knots yet, but I presume they should hold up ok.,
I bought the winchers this year off ebay and have had no problems whatso ever. I agree getting them on was almost impossible. I used grease to help ease them on the winch. As for holding power, I use them on my 150 and they work as advertised. Havent tried them on 20+knots yet, but I presume they should hold up ok.,
I found a good photo of winchers in use
Interesting. I didn't think they would work, but looks like they do.
Interesting. I didn't think they would work, but looks like they do.
comment to flyhop
I don't really care for the winchers. They kinda work but then they kinda don't. As far as making your single handing life easier, they offer far less help than you'd think. Yeah, you can load them up and they'll allow you to make minor trin without tailing, but then they're very inconvenient because you have to remove a few wraps to ease sheets. If you're really wanting to improve your single handing, get an autopilot. Spending about $400 for a tiller type AP will remove the shackles of an unwilling crew and allow you to sail your boat whenever you please.
I don't really care for the winchers. They kinda work but then they kinda don't. As far as making your single handing life easier, they offer far less help than you'd think. Yeah, you can load them up and they'll allow you to make minor trin without tailing, but then they're very inconvenient because you have to remove a few wraps to ease sheets. If you're really wanting to improve your single handing, get an autopilot. Spending about $400 for a tiller type AP will remove the shackles of an unwilling crew and allow you to sail your boat whenever you please.
Self Tailer's are a safety item ...
If you sail double-handed self-tailing winches are a safety item. If you use a block and tackle to lift a crew back onto the boat as part of your COB procedure, the fall of the tackle is lead to a block on the rail and to a primary winch. It is very difficult to hoist a person up out of the water, over the lifelines and back onto the boat by yourself without a ST winch. Many production boats have undersized primaries to begin with. The combination of a too small primary and no self-tailing prevents most people from being able to recover a person that has fallen overboard. If you value your sailing partner you should rig your recovery system and test it. If either one of you can't recover the other with the winches you have now, a pair of properly sized ST's makes the boat safer and easier to sail. "Honey, I put these new winches on the boat because I love you."
Worth a try?
If you sail double-handed self-tailing winches are a safety item. If you use a block and tackle to lift a crew back onto the boat as part of your COB procedure, the fall of the tackle is lead to a block on the rail and to a primary winch. It is very difficult to hoist a person up out of the water, over the lifelines and back onto the boat by yourself without a ST winch. Many production boats have undersized primaries to begin with. The combination of a too small primary and no self-tailing prevents most people from being able to recover a person that has fallen overboard. If you value your sailing partner you should rig your recovery system and test it. If either one of you can't recover the other with the winches you have now, a pair of properly sized ST's makes the boat safer and easier to sail. "Honey, I put these new winches on the boat because I love you."
Worth a try?
Self Tailer's are a safety item ...
Fred a CRUSTY old salt? I agree with Moody on safety the main reason I replaced my old Barients with new Harken self tailers was ease to use them single handed sailing and the couple of times winching fat Capt.RAD up the mast *pop A couple of years ago Harken had a promotion that if you buy new winches and give them the old ones (any old ones) they rebated me back over 750 dollars so I got 2 new ones for the price of one ;D
Fred a CRUSTY old salt? I agree with Moody on safety the main reason I replaced my old Barients with new Harken self tailers was ease to use them single handed sailing and the couple of times winching fat Capt.RAD up the mast *pop A couple of years ago Harken had a promotion that if you buy new winches and give them the old ones (any old ones) they rebated me back over 750 dollars so I got 2 new ones for the price of one ;D
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