Does anyone know if Hunter will offer an alternative to the stock clam cleats on the H240? Something in a cam cleat that requires no serious outfitting... Perhaps just a nice change over that uses the existing bolts & holes. P-L-E-A-S-E!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Rick Webb
Spinlock PX
I just bought a set of Spinlock PX Power Cleats for my 23.5. They are not designed for high loads I think 400 lbs is what they are rated at but I do not think the jib will pull them out. I have not installed them yet but will advise on their merits when I do. The other thing I looked at was a gizzmo that installs on the top of you winch that will allow you to cleat the line off on the winch. It was about $30 at West Marine I was goping to get them but was not certain on the size of the winches on the boat. Beside it gives me an excuse to go back to the store.
I just bought a set of Spinlock PX Power Cleats for my 23.5. They are not designed for high loads I think 400 lbs is what they are rated at but I do not think the jib will pull them out. I have not installed them yet but will advise on their merits when I do. The other thing I looked at was a gizzmo that installs on the top of you winch that will allow you to cleat the line off on the winch. It was about $30 at West Marine I was goping to get them but was not certain on the size of the winches on the boat. Beside it gives me an excuse to go back to the store.
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Paul Jordan
Harken CAM Cleats
I too hate the stock clam cleats so, after much investigation, I have purchased a pair of Harken #356 Cam Cleats for my 240 (this is an assembly with the cam cleat and reversible fairlead in one package--about $30.00 at West Marine or Boat US). I intend to mount these in place of the existing cleats, which are next to useless. My only question now is whether or not I need to purchase riser plates to give them some elevation. The obvious advantage of using a cam cleat in this application is that I will be able to release and cleat the jib sheets without leaving the tiller.
I too hate the stock clam cleats so, after much investigation, I have purchased a pair of Harken #356 Cam Cleats for my 240 (this is an assembly with the cam cleat and reversible fairlead in one package--about $30.00 at West Marine or Boat US). I intend to mount these in place of the existing cleats, which are next to useless. My only question now is whether or not I need to purchase riser plates to give them some elevation. The obvious advantage of using a cam cleat in this application is that I will be able to release and cleat the jib sheets without leaving the tiller.
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Mark Kissel
Raise them, Paul.
Paul, I changed out my clam cleats with the Harken units you describe. Initially, I just replaced them but found that the jib sheet angle was too low leading into the cams. If I was sitting well back in the cockpit, it was impossible to force the sheet into the cams as it would hit the edge of the cabin top before it would lock in. I made risers from teak (traced the outline of the Harken base and cut out on bandsaw). The risers are approximately 1 1/2 inches tall and create the proper angle allowing the sheet to lock in the cams while seated aft. They work great! Mark Kissel Kittiwake/H240
Paul, I changed out my clam cleats with the Harken units you describe. Initially, I just replaced them but found that the jib sheet angle was too low leading into the cams. If I was sitting well back in the cockpit, it was impossible to force the sheet into the cams as it would hit the edge of the cabin top before it would lock in. I made risers from teak (traced the outline of the Harken base and cut out on bandsaw). The risers are approximately 1 1/2 inches tall and create the proper angle allowing the sheet to lock in the cams while seated aft. They work great! Mark Kissel Kittiwake/H240
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Rick Webb
I was considering risers also...
...what I thought I would do is use the holes from the existing cleats to mount blocks of teak on the deck and attach the new cleats to the riser. That way there would be no new holes in the boat I would not need to tap the holes to mount them, seems like the way to go. I was also considering doing this for the jam cleat that holds the centerboard up as it is constantly get knocked out of the cleat though if I could increase the angle it would hold better and get the lines up off of the deck a little.
...what I thought I would do is use the holes from the existing cleats to mount blocks of teak on the deck and attach the new cleats to the riser. That way there would be no new holes in the boat I would not need to tap the holes to mount them, seems like the way to go. I was also considering doing this for the jam cleat that holds the centerboard up as it is constantly get knocked out of the cleat though if I could increase the angle it would hold better and get the lines up off of the deck a little.
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Dave Condon
Harken Cam cleats
I have seen rope clutches mentioned but requires one to go forward to release the line via lever. I am lazy when sailing and suggest as Paul mentioned the Harken cam cleats with risers as being the best solution. I have suggested this to Hunter regarding the cam cleats but we still see the jam cleats. If you want to see the change for future trailerable owners, how about you letting Hunter know loud and clear about this suggestion. Crazy Dave Condon
I have seen rope clutches mentioned but requires one to go forward to release the line via lever. I am lazy when sailing and suggest as Paul mentioned the Harken cam cleats with risers as being the best solution. I have suggested this to Hunter regarding the cam cleats but we still see the jam cleats. If you want to see the change for future trailerable owners, how about you letting Hunter know loud and clear about this suggestion. Crazy Dave Condon
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Jay Hill
Hunter Changes
Jam Cleat Price per unit with volume discount: .79 Cam Cleat with risers price per unit with volume discount: 11.83 23.66 vs. 1.58 per boat. Although not a lot of money, still a huge difference. Multiply this difference by 150 possible "upgrades" on the boat and profit is seriously reduced or the sales price must go up. didn't somebody once say sailboats are a list of compromises that are never resolved? So, which would we prefer: Have Hunter make the changes in design and "upgrades" or do we do the upgrading ourselves after purchase? Any comments?
Jam Cleat Price per unit with volume discount: .79 Cam Cleat with risers price per unit with volume discount: 11.83 23.66 vs. 1.58 per boat. Although not a lot of money, still a huge difference. Multiply this difference by 150 possible "upgrades" on the boat and profit is seriously reduced or the sales price must go up. didn't somebody once say sailboats are a list of compromises that are never resolved? So, which would we prefer: Have Hunter make the changes in design and "upgrades" or do we do the upgrading ourselves after purchase? Any comments?
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Rick Webb
Dave, check out the spinlock PXs
They work like a cam cleat on a vertical axis. Pull the line up it releases. Pull the line down and it locks. Kinda a combination clutch and cam cleat but the line is what is used towork the clutch.
They work like a cam cleat on a vertical axis. Pull the line up it releases. Pull the line down and it locks. Kinda a combination clutch and cam cleat but the line is what is used towork the clutch.
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Mark Kissel
Good point, Jay.
I like customizing the boat to suit my needs. That uniqueness is what makes it "Kittiwake". Based on my own experience which is reinforced by the feedback here on this forum, the clams just don't work well for singlehanded sailing. How about an alternative...do like the car manufacturers and make it an option? Mark Kissel Kittiwake/H240
I like customizing the boat to suit my needs. That uniqueness is what makes it "Kittiwake". Based on my own experience which is reinforced by the feedback here on this forum, the clams just don't work well for singlehanded sailing. How about an alternative...do like the car manufacturers and make it an option? Mark Kissel Kittiwake/H240
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Ken Shubert
Spinlock XA
We suffered with those jam cleats on the H23.5 and now it sounds like a new generation will suffer with them on the H240. Hunter must have gotten a huge quantity discount! I replaced them with Spinlock's XA-3 last season and wish I'd done it years ago. The keel-board doesn't really require the third rope clutch but the matched set of 3 looks cool. No more popping loose in gusts and no more chasing the 'bitter end' of the halyards. The rope clutch also allows slipping the line without burning you hands. Hunter provides a nice thick aluminum plate under the deck that can be drilled and tapped. I used the 6 screws from the original jam-cleats to mount the Spinlocks and a couple of the holes lined up fine. Don't forget to caulk the old holes. Ken S/V Wouff Hong
We suffered with those jam cleats on the H23.5 and now it sounds like a new generation will suffer with them on the H240. Hunter must have gotten a huge quantity discount! I replaced them with Spinlock's XA-3 last season and wish I'd done it years ago. The keel-board doesn't really require the third rope clutch but the matched set of 3 looks cool. No more popping loose in gusts and no more chasing the 'bitter end' of the halyards. The rope clutch also allows slipping the line without burning you hands. Hunter provides a nice thick aluminum plate under the deck that can be drilled and tapped. I used the 6 screws from the original jam-cleats to mount the Spinlocks and a couple of the holes lined up fine. Don't forget to caulk the old holes. Ken S/V Wouff Hong
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Paul Jordan
Risers for Harken CAM Cleats
Mark Kissel, I like your idea about making teak bases for the CAM cleats. I was going to just purchase the Harken risers (which are only about an inch high), but then I would still have the problem of filling the old holes, not a pleasant thought. Let me make sure I understand what you did: Did you make the risers large enough to cover most all of the flat area adjacent to the rope clutches and then use the old clam cleat holes to secure the riser? How did you attach the new cam cleats to the riser? Are they bolted through the teak or just screwed in? Also, what kind of screw/bolt hardware did you use? Finally, do you (or anyone reading this) know what the backing place that all this hardware is mounted to is made of? Forgive what may be obvious questions but I am a real novice and want to do the job right the first time and avoid an unsightly, or worse, unsafe, installation. Paul Jordan, Mithrandir
Mark Kissel, I like your idea about making teak bases for the CAM cleats. I was going to just purchase the Harken risers (which are only about an inch high), but then I would still have the problem of filling the old holes, not a pleasant thought. Let me make sure I understand what you did: Did you make the risers large enough to cover most all of the flat area adjacent to the rope clutches and then use the old clam cleat holes to secure the riser? How did you attach the new cam cleats to the riser? Are they bolted through the teak or just screwed in? Also, what kind of screw/bolt hardware did you use? Finally, do you (or anyone reading this) know what the backing place that all this hardware is mounted to is made of? Forgive what may be obvious questions but I am a real novice and want to do the job right the first time and avoid an unsightly, or worse, unsafe, installation. Paul Jordan, Mithrandir
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Sam Kurtz
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Mark Kissel
Details
Paul, I was lucky enough to obtain some high grade stainless sheet stock (3/32") from my brother. I made two "cover" plates sized to fit the flat area you mention. To secure the cover plates, I used one of the existing clam cleat holes but had to drill additional holes to secure the aft end. The risers are only 1/16" larger than the base of the cam cleats. I drilled the teak/cover/cabin top and through-bolted with backing washers. Used stainless oval head screws, washers, and nuts from West Marine (don't remember the length, 3" maybe?). I used a generous dab of 5200 on all the holes including the left over one hidden by the cover plate. There is an embedded aluminum plate under the clutch pads but I wanted to make sure the cams didn't pull out under severe loads (maybe a little overkill). Since we're practically neighbors, call me and I'll be glad to give you more details. I'm in the phonebook. Mark Kissel Kittiwake/H240
Paul, I was lucky enough to obtain some high grade stainless sheet stock (3/32") from my brother. I made two "cover" plates sized to fit the flat area you mention. To secure the cover plates, I used one of the existing clam cleat holes but had to drill additional holes to secure the aft end. The risers are only 1/16" larger than the base of the cam cleats. I drilled the teak/cover/cabin top and through-bolted with backing washers. Used stainless oval head screws, washers, and nuts from West Marine (don't remember the length, 3" maybe?). I used a generous dab of 5200 on all the holes including the left over one hidden by the cover plate. There is an embedded aluminum plate under the clutch pads but I wanted to make sure the cams didn't pull out under severe loads (maybe a little overkill). Since we're practically neighbors, call me and I'll be glad to give you more details. I'm in the phonebook. Mark Kissel Kittiwake/H240
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Mark Kissel
I have photos!
Paul or anyone else who is willing, I have photos of both port and starboard cam cleats, risers, and cover plates. If you or someone else can scan them, they could be posted in the photo forum. Any takers? Mark Kissel Kittiwake/H240
Paul or anyone else who is willing, I have photos of both port and starboard cam cleats, risers, and cover plates. If you or someone else can scan them, they could be posted in the photo forum. Any takers? Mark Kissel Kittiwake/H240
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Jeff Davis
scanner
I am not close to you, but would be glad to scan your photos. Email me if you want at: jeffersondavis@excite.com
I am not close to you, but would be glad to scan your photos. Email me if you want at: jeffersondavis@excite.com
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Craig Corley
2 minutes away and have scanner
Mark, Hi it's Craig from up the street. I have a scanner and or digital camera that we can use to get your photos posted. Craig
Mark, Hi it's Craig from up the street. I have a scanner and or digital camera that we can use to get your photos posted. Craig
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