Why not racing sails?

[Chris Patterson]

I've heard this before, and it came to my attention again yesterday while ordering a new sail, that racing sails are no good on cruising boats. It seems as if there is a proliferation of go-fast sails on the market, but no one wants them much.
Now I'm confused here. When I was building something, and the high performance part was available and affordable, I would always go with the hot-rod part, as it was generally a better component. So why not sails? I figure they don't handle the sun as well, therefore a shorter life expectancy, but what if I just wanted to play with a set of these awesome looking rags?
Are they exponentially different that they are entirely unsuitable to cruising?

 

[seadaddler]

$$$$$$

I was told that they don't last long because they are made very light weight and you will need to replace them with in 1 or 2 years.
Nick

 

[Davidasailor26]

Laminate racing sails are less durable than Dacron in typical cruising applications, as they need to be folded and stored more carefully and kept out of the sun more diligently. I've also heard that sails cut for racing are intended to be trimmed more precisely, and so offer less margin of error in trimming and require more constant attention than a distance cruiser might want to give them.

 

[shemandr]

All that and, just because you put sails cut for racing an easily driven hull on a big fat cruising boat doesn't make the cruising boat a racing boat. Cruising boats need more power so the sails are not as flat. Also the draft aft shapes that allow a fine entry and pointy upwind performance, are twitchy to drive while eating potato chips.
A sailmaker can use modern no stretch material to build a cruising sail. Sailmaker's have a variety of hybrid sails which should have a shape appropriate for your boat and will be durable. That's why a relationship with a sailmaker is important.

 

[Chris Patterson]

Hmm, the analogy about the boat being twitchy while munching chips makes sense. I knew the maintenance and longevity would be an issue, but now my dumb thinking is starting to think that it's the equivalent of driving a Ferrari to the grocery store..

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Chris
My son has a race boat which has been very enlighhtening to me:

1. each main costs $7000 plus
2. can't be flaked
3. big roach and cut so as to preclude use in furling mains which are fashionable these days
4. designed and cut for very specific wind conditions
5. can't be mended easily if damaged
6. typical lifetime 1 yr (see #1)
7. won't make a pig fly regardless of how well it's cut
8. can't be stored folded

 

[Ted]

Why not racing sails

I predominantly race my boat so I always buy sails intended for racing. Most of them are kevlar or carbon fiber. When my sails have reached the end of their racing life, which by the way is longer than a year, I use them as my cruising/daysailing sails. Racing sails which are generally made from high tech materials tend to hold their designed shape for a longer period of time as compared to Dacron sails. At some point in time, the racing material might have a catastrophic failure whereas Dacron will last for a very very long time but with poor shape. If you find a used racing sail in decent condition that fits your boat, give it a try. You may be pleasantly surprised with the added performance you will see and feel. Try to get a sail that was designed for a similar type of boat. For instance, if you have a medium displacement cruiser/racer boat, don't get a sail designed for an ultralight.

 

[Ray Bowles]

There are also new fabrics being used today that will upgrade the performance and life of new sails. A good sail loft and experenced sailmaker should be a performance oriented sailer's best friend.
Ray

 

[Don12364]

In the days when there were only Dacron sails - i.e. no kevlar or carbon - we used to grumble about the life of Dacron and I often went up one weight of cloth to get a life of possibly 10 years plus. I also used to race my boat which was then a Camper Nicholson built Ron Holland half tonner. These sails were a bit heavier but NEVER blew out of shape.
Now they think nothing of spending thousands on new sails every second year!
And the evidence supports this that unless you do you are never in the prize money.
That's progress for you?

Five years ago I had a jib made for my H376 with kevlar tapes laminated between layers of plastic film. I also had it of thicker material than the sailmaker recommended. This sail is just plain hard work. Incredibly heavy to lug about. Awkward to hoist or lower and very difficult to fold or flake. Began coming apart at a seam which rubbed the spreader end and the sailmaker had no facility to re-glue it because he had ordered it from Singapore. So he sewed it back together. Last winter I superglued the seams where his frail stitching had failed.
In its favour, once up it furls as normal and it does set very well though.

No, give me woven fabrics every time - they are superb compared to the original cotton cloth. What more could one want?

 

[RichH]

For 'displacement' hull boats or boats that do not 'plane', the 'functional' difference between racing cut and cruising cut sails is the shape of the luff entry or the first ~10% of the cord length back from the luff edge itself.

Racing sails are usually cut with a very 'precise' shape, a 'flattish' luff entry shape that requires quite precise and constant steering, a precise and very diligent helmsman to constantly keep to a very 'narrow groove'. The functional 'range' of the attack angle is quite narrow; a few degrees of 'wander' by the helmsman and the sail will either stagnation stall (luff shaking) or very easily form an invisible separation stall (sudden loss of 'drive'). Racing sails are also usually cut for very specific narrow range of wind strengths and wave height/wave period.

Cruising cut sails have a quite 'rounded' luff entry section allowing a quite 'forgiving' sail with quite a wide 'range' of operating attack angle so that an inattentive or uncaring-for-performance helmsman can adequately steer without much trouble .... the sail will keep operating sufficiently with large swings away from the precise angle of attack being held by the helmsman. Cruising sails, unless specified otherwise, are cut to be at their optimum in 12-15 knots and 2 ft. waves.

Laminate racing sails are quite shape stable ... the shape you buy is the shape you get.

Woven dacron is somewhat stretchy so you 'can' have the advantage of 'adjustability' when 'shaping' the sail to get the 'max' out of it; although, cruisers never seem to 'shape' their sails, they just raise them and hope for the best.

 

[Rick D]

Great info Rich! So, in the Tayana, you do ...what?? Do you pull strings and move stuff or just helm to suit the trim? I tend to pull strings....

 

[RichH]

For cruising, I prefer sails cut more towards; but not quite, full racing cut sails but yet with sufficient 'forgiveness' so as to not 'overwork' my autopilot, or me. Sails can be cut 'exactly' to the expertise of the helmsman and his/her preferences - especially good for when sailing in predictable 'local' sailing venues.
A boat sailing its 'fastest' is a safer boat. :-o

I 'pull the strings' to set up each every days or partial days wind and wave conditions ... mostly for 'fingertip helm balance' and best output of speed vs. 'power' (amount of heel) .... and without affecting or changing 'trim'.

I prefer 'top shelf' woven dacron for cruising sails for long service life and 'adjustability' of sail SHAPE. A 1/4 - 1/2 knot extra speed can makes a big difference when sailing a 24 hour day. Also, its easier to 'shift gears' between high speed (flat water) and 'power' (heavy chop) with woven dacron sails, especially when beating/pointing and without carrying a lot of unneeded so-called 'twist'.

;-)

 

[Chris Patterson]

I think I'm starting to get the analogy. The same mentality that would make a man watch a Nascar race, and think, "I could do that",

when the reality is...

 

[RichH]

A lot of folks following that analogy would buy a Lamborghini or Ferrari .... and never shift out of first gear. ;-)

 

[rardiH36]

Well, I am about to experiment because ...

.... I happened to come across a kevlar jib that looks to be in very good condition. For less 2% of the $'s I've seen bantered about on the internet for a new sail. The sail is for a somewhat larger racing cruiser (a Farr40) than my boat, so I'll need to get out the scissors, and double-side tape, and sewing machine to reduce the size before hoisting up my furler foil. Yes, this DIY approach will diminish some of the performance shape. But the cool visual appearance of all that glistening gold up front will be an acceptable exchange.

I expect maybe a couple of summers of always on the furler before the UV gets to it?

 

[mark_swart]

Some older racing sails also have windspeed limits, which could be an issue depending on what you are doing.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

When a racer thinks of longevity in a sail, they think of the lasting ability of the sail shape which is germane in helping a boat go fast. Laminate sails like Kevlar and Carbon fibre hold their shape a hell of a lot longer than Dacron sails - period. But, the material itself might not hold up so well as bullet proof Dacron - the higher the denier the better the sail when it comes to Dacron. Also, racers are into spending money more than many cruisers and depending on what level you race on, you might, to be super competitive, buy new racing sails annually (rich man's sport) if the class allows and most cruisers buy sails and keep them for many years. And, as mentioned before, different racing head sails are built for different wind velocity ranges while most cruisers buy one roller furling headsail and use it in all conditions and reef it in or out to suit the given velocity. But, it should be noted that often technology starts with the race boats and the sails that they use and what is learned is applied to the cruising sail. So....depending on your budget, where you sail and how you sail, there is a bigger choice of cruising sails and materials for your cruising needs. A sailmaker will explain all that. The basic Dacron sail is cross cut, which is simple, easy to build and cheaper than the radial rocked racing sail that has many panels extending from the corners in a radial pattern and glued together in a way where various locations on the sail are built to withstand the various load conditions, which is much more labor intensive and with the added laminated sail cloths, it gets even spendier. Dacron cross cut sails are built stronger in the corners, but there is not much difference over the rest of the sail. There are, however, radial Dacron sails built for furling that have better shapes and different Dacron quality fabric for longer shapes, which is better for any boat.