Why is my Genoa so hard to hoist?

[onlinelee]

Hi friends, Happy Christmas one and all

The tension required to hoist my Genoa is truly too much in my limited view, the very first time I tried it on my boat the halyard snapped! All goes very well till the head of the sail gets around half way up the foil. Its been suggested that the way my halyard is threaded into the mast head is causing major friction and that maybe a pulley would be better. As far as I am aware the angle I have is necessary to avoid halyard wrap. Any suggestions appreciated, please note the loose forestay wire, its an old photo, this has been replaced. Thanks in advance, Lee

 

[NYSail]

Maybe go up and check the foil alignment at the point it appears to get stuck.

 

[Joe]

It appears that the jib halyard is reeved incorrectly... it should exit the masthead casting beneath the forestay. In your picture the halyard exits the masthead above it, then routes back down through the restrainer to the swivel. A closer look reveals what appears to be a sheave (pulley) below everything that would be designed for a halyard. My guess is that the sheave is frozen and someone chose the alternate rig to avoid changing it out. Just a guess.

Another suggestion is to toy with the backstay tension to see if its affect on the headstay foil reduces friction.

 

[gettinthere]

I agree with NYsail. I had a pin partially pull out at one of the foil joints which totally stopped the hoist. There might be something causing a jam or bind or blockage in the foil. If it happens in exactly the same spot every time, that's telling you something.

 

[kloudie1]

On my old Harken, the split pins that hold the foil sections together can come partially out and jam the upper halyard swivel at a specific spot.. I don't recognize your furler brand, but if it used to work OK and after the headstay change it slowly began to jam at the same spot, I would suspect something with a foil or the foil keepers.. If ya look carefully with binoculars at the place on the foil where the swivel binds up, ya might be able to see it..

 

[dlochner]

As others have said, check the foil for any obstructions, bends, or other damage. Sometimes the gap in the foil can be crushed.

Cleaning the foil or lubricating with a dry lubricant, like McLube, may help. Use a short piece of luff tape with grommets installed at either end and hoist it up the foil. Don't forget the down haul!

Check to see if the sheave turns freely. Attach a line to the halyard and hoist it without the sail. Does it bind anywhere? Does the line run smoothly? One issue with older boats and furling jibs is the hole in the sheave becomes distorted or the axle develops flat spot or breaks. This happens because the sheave rocks back and forth in the same location when the sail is up, eventually wearing a flat spot or distorting the sheave.

Are there any obstructions inside the mast? If halyard gets wrapped around something like the other halyards it could be getting tighter as more tension is applied.

If the halyard broke and the sail didn't rip, then it was past time for a new halyard.

Good luck!

 

[Jackdaw]

I’m guessing a broken sheave at the masttop exit. The halyard will roll fine over the pin up to a certain point, then the friction builds up and becomes almost impossible.

Joe’s right, even with the halyard restrainer, the exit should be BELOW the forestay.

 

[agprice22]

Yeah, if you had a hanked on jib, you would realize that halyard is out of place the first time. You would be trying to raise the head in front of the forestay.
Also, are you saying it used to hoist fine? If so, I would agree a sheave may be the culprit.

 

[capta]

As above, I think you ran the halyard incorrectly when you replaced it. The reason it broke is probably a stuck sheave. So you've got a couple of items to address.

 

[Ron20324]

My guess is that- considering it's a 361- the fitting at the mast top does not have a sheave in it. It is just cast flared for the spinnaker halyard to go in any direction. Enlarged, I can not see any pin for a sheave axle. And, maybe that slot on the front, though low, should have been an exit block? Is the red line the spin halyard? Being a European "Clipper" it could be different that what we'd usually see in the U.S.. /// I don't think that restrainer gives the halyard the angle of pull that is needed to prevent halyard wrap- it is too high. An exit block in that thin slot would be about the right amount of side-pull.

 

[onlinelee]

My guess is that- considering it's a 361- the fitting at the mast top does not have a sheave in it. It is just cast flared for the spinnaker halyard to go in any direction. Enlarged, I can not see any pin for a sheave axle. And, maybe that slot on the front, though low, should have been an exit block?

Thanks guys for all your comments. Ron, this photo was taken the day I bought the boat, the red strop has been replaced with a new ( correct sized ) Genoa that is connected to the swivel. The halyard is threaded now is exactly as it was when I bought the boat. Although Ive been up the mast a few times to be frank I don't know how its supposed to look inside although seem to recall when I re threaded the halyard the mast top exit did not have a block inside, just a groove! The problem I have in my marina is lack of expertise, its a working port with mainly fishing boats! Im going to take another photo today but suspect with the new Genoa the slot in the front of the mast is now too low. If not I guess I could just rivet a good quality block below it? Any other solutions working with or adding to what I have much appreciated.

 

[NYSail]

I am sure you can find a rigger in your area that can take a look. Go to local Sailing club and ask around for a reputable person.
Good luck

 

[Joe]

Well.... it is a Beneteau.... so I'm sure the factory would still support a customer service call. Take your pictures and send them to Beneteau with a plea for help... my guess is you'll get some specific help and perhaps a drawing or two on the proper set up. The alternative is to find a Bene dealer anywhere is Spain and give them a call.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Joe;
First you will need to identify the mast as to any markings or stickers on it. It would also be helpful to know the year of your boat. It may very well be a U S Spars/ Z Spar (depending on the year) but if nothing, then contact Beneteau and they can advise. What you need then is to identify the spar regarding the mast head to make sure if there is a bottom sheave because I think it is the kind of mast head that may well have the pin inside a slot in the mast head inside the mast which cannot be seen from the outside. Then suggest you order the sheave.
The top sheave appears to be one for a spinnaker.
Then the correct sheave would be the lower one. Then I would suggest lowering the restrainer or add a second lower down as I suspect it may be too much possibly causing halyard wrap. I assume a new halyard is installed or being installed.

 

[DougM]

in addition to everything else, it looks like the forestay has a broken wire at the masthead swage fitting. Not related to the hoisting problem, but might be on its way to a failure.

 

[agprice22]

in addition to everything else, it looks like the forestay has a broken wire at the masthead swage fitting. Not related to the hoisting problem, but might be on its way to a failure.

Good catch! That will make things REALLY exciting!

 

[Don Crowther]

From post # 1
please note the loose forestay wire, its an old photo, this has been replaced. Thanks in advance, Lee

 

[jssailem]

Looking at the running rigging for the furler, the design while creating potential friction is not unusual for an older boat.

The halyard starts at the top furler. Goes to the mast below the forestay. Through a fair lead. Up the mast to a turning point. This should be a sheave in the mast head in order to reduce friction. It may be, as Lee describes, “just a groove “ that turns the halyard down through the mast center.

To address this issue, newer design is to reduce friction at all potential spots where the line turns.

First tackle the mast fair lead. This can be done with a turning block attached in the same location as the metal fair lead on the outside of the mast. Be sure the line size is considered as you select the turning block size.

Next modify the mast head to install a proper sheave if one is not already there. It can enter the mast in the same location but should be properly sized to permit the line you want to use move freely.

This done you need to assure that the halyard is not incumbered inside the mast. It should move freely down in a straight line to the exit sheave at the bottom of the mast. This may require alterations to the mast. You’ll not know till you can inspect and identify any issues in the mast.

Before we had all the variety of blocks and sheaves there were metal fair leads and grooves. You stood at the mast and raised the sail. Now we want the sails to be handled from the cockpit. This means longer lines, and friction at every turn in the line. This can cause the sails to be difficult to raise.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Don Crowther; I am confused as to your statement the photo from Onlinelee was replaced as that is an older photo. Can it be the two of you are one in the same? Just confused with two separate names.
Doug M; Good catch as well. That could have occurred from halyard wrap as I think the restrainer as one member refers to it is up too high. That generally is a reason for wires breaking there due to halyard wrap and could be some issue.
Jssailem; Good suggestion but I think it would be easier if the sheave was replaced if I suspect what I stated with the restrainer being moved down further to prevent halyard wrap given the forestay and jib halyard have been replaced. That is what I would have suggested to my customers but again it will all depend which mast head that one is. Have replaced or repaired many mast heads in my heyday that were like that successfully

 

[NYSail]

This is a simple basic problem... maybe a broken sheave or the halyard jumped the track or a twisted line inside the mast. Start at the top and inspect and you will find it. If it were a situation where you would need to do major changes, this would have been talked about already.
Good luck and take pictures!