Why Don't You Use ActiveCaptain?

Apr 25, 2024
527
Fuji 32 Bellingham
(OK, the title is slightly click-baity.)

Full disclosure: I am doing some informal research for a project I am considering that could be compared to ActiveCaptain, in many ways.

ActiveCaptain is probably the most prominent system for boaters to share location and updated hazard information. I personally have no use for the system and I don't know of anyone who does find it useful. But, what I am wondering is why people don't use it. Or, if you do use it, why/how do you use it?

There are also plenty of apps that allow people to share their location and see the location of others. I know a few people that use this for cycling (which I don't understand), but I don't know anyone who does this on the water, except in a few isolated cases - like plotting their ocean crossing - that sort of thing.

Does anyone here find that sort of functionality useful? Why or why not?

For me, I just don't like sharing my location with a bunch of strangers and I don't like running an app on my phone that tracks and reports my location. So, it has nothing to do with whether or not I would find it useful on the water. It's just that, for me, it isn't worth the invasion of privacy.

What we are planning is a bit different than this, but I think it is important to understand what folks do and don't like about what is currently available.

Any opinions are welcome and appreciated. (By the way, this is not a commercial venture - more of a passion project.)
 

colemj

.
Jul 13, 2004
613
Dolphin Catamaran Dolphin 460 Mystic, CT
Is Active Captain even still around? I haven't seen or heard of it in couple of years. The reason we stopped using it is because Garmin stopped allowing us to use it when they bought it. The app no longer works for anyone who doesn't have a Garmin ecosystem and a subscription to one of their pay modules, and the website version is unusable. So we started using it through 3rd party apps that contained it, but Garmin started cutting access from them, so now none of the apps we use have it anymore. The last time I used it, the information was so out of date that many of the businesses and times and other things besides anchor spots no longer even exist.

Nowadays, Noforeignland.com and its app rule the cruiser market. I don't know if it is popular among non-cruisers or US/Bahama cruisers, but outside that everyone is using it. It's a great app with a lot more relevant information and tracking ability than AC ever had. It has a social network aspect to it that we don't use much. The tracking function can be turned off. In fact, it isn't automatic - one must purposefully tell it to send the tracking.

Noforeignland is also catching on in ways that AC never did. Communities and towns and local authorities are using it to promote themselves and provide detailed information about the area outside of just the anchorages or harbors. So it is just as useful on land as on water. In these areas, all businesses, churches, parks, hiking trails, etc are marked with up to date times and other information.

Another newer app is Seapeopleapp.com. This is pretty much total social network. We were beta testers during its development, but quickly realized this had no relevance to us, or how we cruise, or what we wanted from an app. It does seem to be geared to younger people than us, and they seem to want different things from an app than us.

The one thing we do like is the ability to keep track of cruising friends who aren't cruising around us. It also allows our friends and family to know where we are with context around that, as well as track us on longer passages. For the latter, it is much better than a Spot or Inreach.

I don't know what type of app you are considering, but think the bar and effort is set pretty high to get it used to the point it is useful - a circular problem. Noforeignland was made by a cruiser who lost AC with the Garmin acquisition. It appeared at a time where the bar was very low because there weren't any other options for anything resembling AC when Garmin started refusing access to AC to people and companies. I'm pretty sure this small period of fortunate timing is the only reason it is widespread now. I've been tangentially involved with Seapeople since the beginning, and they have put a TREMENDOUS amount of effort in advertising, social media, and getting people to use it, but it still is a very slow uptake.

Mark
 
Aug 18, 2024
25
Sceptre 41 Vancouver
I certainly do not have any Garmin stuff and my Navionic's subscription ended 2-3 years ago. I have no problem reading and contributing to Active Captain via its website.

That said, I have real issues with ActiveCaptain (and other similar sites):
- many (most?) contributors seem to have limited knowledge, so not that trustworthy (depths not corrected for tide, effect of wind direction not considered when commenting on "protection", poor anchoring technique, etc)
- contributions reflect the conditions at the time, so maybe no wind, waves etc... which may be quite different with wind shifts... or perhaps they dragged due to poor anchoring technique. Local knowledge (e.g., fouled bottom) not acknowledged, etc
- contributions become quite dated

My contributions tend to focus on wind protection or lack thereof, hazards, etc. I rarely post to indicate a "favourite" anchorage. (these do not need more boats!)
 
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WayneH

.
Jan 22, 2008
1,094
Tartan 37 287 Pensacola, FL
After the dick moves Garmin made on my Nuvi and my GPS78 and the GPS that came with the big boat, I dropped active captain like a hot potato when garmin bought the service.

And garmin just changed the rules on my Inreach so I've dropped that, too.
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,139
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
I'm of a similar opinion regarding using the blog feature to share where we are.

I have heard that ActiveCaptain has helped many boaters navigate the ICW on the East Coast. While it is not limited to the East Coast, there have been fewer users here in the Puget Sound or Salish Sea. Now that the system has been monetized, it is no longer on my phone.

Talking about the PacificNW cruising.
There have been some sailors that utilized ActiveCaptain prior to the Garmin buy out.

Coastal Explore, the Microsoft navigation product developed by Rosepoint, also has a Public/Private Ships Log that works similarly to ActiveCaptain. The navigation product is excellent.

There are two excellent cruising guides.
  • Waggoners Guide
  • Salish Sea Pilot.
There is also Facetime with a number of groups.
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
4,409
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
I think Mark really nailed a lot of things!

For myself, i am a member of NoforeignLand but rarely use it. I've also looked at the sea people app but Mark gave you all on that - I can't give anything more of value.

I don't use boating as a "social media event". When I go to new-to-me locations I talk to locals. Or I'm remote enough that nothing "social media" related would be informational. In these remote locations if I find spectacular locations, I specifically don't share outside my circle of immediate friends as I don't wish to destroy the pristine region I've discovered.

In populous areas, I simply have starlink and can do broadband Internet searches. That's been more than sufficient for my needs.

dj
 
Apr 25, 2024
527
Fuji 32 Bellingham
Really great feedback! Thank you for taking the time.

What we are contemplating is a system that is both highly-localized and more about creating an assistance network than about social networking or oyster bar reviews. What we are building has some overlap with things like noforeignland, but decidedly is not that.

A little background:

I used to work in the ER and we lost a doctor and a friend who went out for a paddle, capsized, and apparently became too hypothermic to self rescue. He was alive when they found him but never regained consciousness. I was working that night and it left a lasting impression on me.

As is often the case, it just took too long to realize he was overdue and initiate a search.

I used to be an airplane pilot. One of the cool things about flying is that you can (and sometimes have to) file a flight plan. It says where you are going from/to, plus details of your route, and your ETA. If you fail to close your flight plan, this initiates a series of responses. First, they just try to contact you, assuming you just forgot to close your plan, and it escalates from there.

There is no equivalent in recreational boating and most of us agree that there should be.

The problem is that, as much as we like the idea, almost none of us would use it - including me. Sure, maybe on occasion, but almost never. Not if we are honest with ourselves. So, I left that project about 75% done and just think about it, from time to time.

The USCG Aux does have a Float Plan PDF that you are meant to fill out and give to a trusted friend, but we can all see the problems there.

Recently, I started looking for a yacht club that aligns with my interests/personality. I noticed something interesting that previously escaped my notice. This area has a lot of boats and at least a half-dozen clubs/organizations within walking distance of each other, not including the various paddling, kiteboarding, etc. groups. What I am starting to notice is how isolated folks are. Most people don't know anyone except a few friends on the water. Or, if they belong to a club, they are siloed in that club, for the most part.

What I am wanting to do is to take the tradition of generosity, assistance and camaraderie that exists on the water and expand on that. I'll give you a good example:

Last year, we ran across a group of young/inexperienced sailors who were anchored just off the breakwater (and had been for a few yours, apparently). They were not in distress but had run out of fuel - within about 2 minute of the fuel dock. During that time easily dozens of boats had passed by and could have lent a hand, and most would gladly have done so. They did not (I don't think) have a functioning VHF, but that wouldn't have mattered because people don't monitor it anyway. I know, for a fact, that at least 6 boats visited the fuel dock while that sailboat was anchored. We were one of them.

They simply didn't know anyone to call that could help them. Eventually, someone stopped (just before we did) and went to get them some fuel. The issue was not a shortage of people willing and able to help - it was just the group's inability to contact them.

(Granted, there is much this group could have done differently, but not everyone started sailing with our years of experience and enjoyed never having made mistakes.)

This incident (and many like it) got me thinking about how ridiculuous it is that, in this age, that local boaters don't have a better way of connecting on the water. Yes, VHF solves this ... if people monitor it ... which they do not, for the most part. In particular, most casual boaters (i.e. most boaters) either do not have a VHF or they simply view it as a last-resort emergency device. And, I don't know of anyone who keeps it on at anchor/moored. But, most people cannot survive without oxygen, water, mobile service, and food ... in that order.

Anyway (brevity is not my strong suit), to make a long story longer ...

Recently, I've refined the concept into something I believe could genuinely work: a highly-localized and easy-to-use system I'm currently calling FloatWatch. I ... floated ... this idea to a group of local software developers to see if anyone was willing and interested in participating in launching something like this and the response was really positive. This is very similar to other sorts of systems that I've built over the years, so, I'm kind of thinking about actually building this one.

Here's how it would work in practical terms:
  • App or SMS Based: The system would (at this stage) only work from your mobile phone if you have some sort of signal. The mobile app would be the primary interface, but the system would support SMS-only interactions for areas where that's all you can get. Again, this is NOT for emergencies and not meant to replace emergency communications.
  • Simple and Immediate Requests: Boaters who need help—whether it's a minor mechanical issue, towing assistance, delivery of parts or supplies, or simply local information—can quickly send out a clear, structured request from a mobile app. Any members in the area who have opted to receive request notifications will receive the request and can decide to respond, render assistance, or forward the request to someone who can help.
  • Selective, Private, and Secure: Requests go only to nearby boaters who've opted into helping with specific kinds of requests. Locations and identities remain private until assistance is mutually agreed upon, ensuring your security and privacy on the water. App users will be able to see how many members are in the area, but won't see exact locations/identities unless/until an individual opts into that.
  • Flexible Networks: You can choose to keep assistance requests within a small private group (like a cruising flotilla), share with your yacht club or charter company, or, in an urgent situation, reach out to the broader boating community nearby. In fact, I think early adopters might be charter providers who just use it for their own fleet. Also, my hope is that YCs and paddling clubs, etc will use it and form cooperation agreements with other clubs in the area.
There are quite a few details to be worked out. The team involved so far brings diverse talents and feedback has suggested features that take the project in several directions. Trying to keep the core concept simple and effective, but still open to good ideas and refinements.

I am really trying to approach this with eyes wide open. There is a real risk of building something that really sounds like a great idea that everyone loves, but ultimately just doesn't get used. I also want to be aware that this overlaps with things like noforeignland and it needs to differentiate enough that people won't view it as another app that does basically the same thing.
 
Aug 18, 2024
25
Sceptre 41 Vancouver
Don't we already have this? DSC VHF....

What about an "all-ships" DSC pan pan or securité call? People may not monitor their VHF, but hard to ignore a DSC call on the VHF
 
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colemj

.
Jul 13, 2004
613
Dolphin Catamaran Dolphin 460 Mystic, CT
I don't have much to add to what you want to do, but wondered what it has to do with Active Captain? It doesn't sound like it has any overlap at all with AC.

Also, check out Seapeople. That app has a lot of the communication stuff you describe. It is trying to replace many VHF uses with an app, where people hang out on their phones instead of the vhf, with the type of compartmentalized and general features you imagine.

Mark
 
Jan 12, 2025
24
Oday 22 Lake Hickory NC
My two cents.
Since nobody apparently likes Garmin.
I just retired from trucking, started way before GPS.
Along came Garmin. They more or less set the standard for GPS. And a very crappy standard it was. There were so many things they could have done to make it awesome, however, in the search of profits, they dumbed it down.
I will NEVER have garmin in or on anything I own!
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,139
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
I admire your enthusiasm. The idea seems to be a solution looking for a problem.
If you take a boating license course (as required by law), you will learn about boating plans (like the flight plan). You will also learn how to use radios to communicate with the USCG or other boats for assistance.

Both Oregon and Washington provide free boating instruction.

The instruction involves safety on the water. Having a phone-based link diminishes the established tools that keep boaters safe on the water, including kayaks and small craft. A phone app will be a crutch and may imply to young individuals that it is better than VHF, DCS PLB, and EPIRB tools. This can make boating less safe.

Just because there is a requirement to know about safety does not mean individuals will use it.
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
4,409
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
Well, I for one always monitor chanel 16 on my VHF when I'm sailing. Although at anchor I'll turn it off usually - not interested in the noise.

I can't see a reason I would join something like that. I'm not seeing an unmet need. If I'm sailing beyond my immediate environment, how would the app know where I was and those that may need its services would know I'm in the area - the app will be monitoring where I am? Doesn't give me a warm fuzzy...

dj
 
Apr 25, 2024
527
Fuji 32 Bellingham
I think I might have unstressed that this is not for emergencies. There are tools that are well-established for dealing with emergencies. We should not use those tools for things like, "Hey, I am 100 yards outside the marina and need a gallon of gas."

In the past year (a year when we didn't even get out much) we rendered non-emergency assistance about a half-dozen times, and that's mostly because we are quick to ask, "Hey, do you need anything?" In most cases, they had been waiting for help for some time. In two cases, a tow had already been called, lacking any other options, and they had been waiting for over an hour.

I have had as many conversations with people who have a recent story about needing some sort of assistance or information, but being unable to get it.

I do hear the feedback that a) there are already systems that handle some of this and b) "Why would I personally want this?" I share those thoughts, which is part of why I asked the question.

However, I hear a lot of voices saying the exact opposite. Lots of folks saying they have been looking for something like this and wondering why it doesn't exist yet. I mean, that seems to be a big part of the rationale behind SeaPeople. I think this group is probably not the target audience for this sort of system. If I'm honest, I myself wouldn't use it if I didn't build it myself. (For example, I would never sign up for SeaPeople, even though it overlaps, functionally, quite a bit.)

But, I am hearing a lot more voices saying they would. So, I'm just trying to understand people's motivations as to why they are or are not interested.

One thing I am hearing a lot of is that people feel there is a hardware missing link - something that never even occurred to me. That is, they feel that NMEA, AIS, and DSC collectively don't completely address their expectations. I'm still trying to fully understand that. I think that many of us are pretty self-sufficient and solitary on the water and expect other to be the same. And, we tend to eschew gadgets. (I made a living in technology, but don't really like it on my boat.)

But, the majority of people on the water are not like that. I am just now starting to understand that, in having discussions with the broader community.

Lots of interest from kayakers, paddleboarders, kiteboarders, etc ... which is kind of odd when you think about the feasibility of getting your mobile phone out, when on the water. But, I also get that they feel more vulnerable on the water and therefore they see greater value in having more support options.

The problem is, there is usually a pretty big disconnect between what people think they might do and what they will actually do. That is, people might think that if they had this sort of tool, they would religiously turn it on whenever they went out and monitor notifications. In reality ... some would, but most probably would not.

From conversations I have had, there is definitely a sense that something is missing. I'm just trying to pinpoint exactly what that is that can actually be addressed in a way that people will actually use.
 

colemj

.
Jul 13, 2004
613
Dolphin Catamaran Dolphin 460 Mystic, CT
How would a kiteboarder carry and use a phone? I'm not up on the latest phone tech, but are they really that water and shock proof? To use a phone, a kiteboarder would be bobbing in the water with at most their shoulders clear of it.

Mark
 
Jan 11, 2014
12,955
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
What you are describing is SeaTow or TowBoatUS. Works like AAA. Join, pay the dues, and when trouble arises you call them. My dinghy motor wouldn't start, I was about 1.5 miles from my boat which was across a busy commercial channel, I called TowBoat, they came and go me.

Relying on volunteers to perform what are essentially rescue missions will struggle to get off the ground. I doubt there are many boaters out there who just sit around on their boats looking help someone in need. Call the CG, they won't come unless life and limb are at risk, but they will call TowBoat or SeaTow and they will put out a call for a good samaritan.

If you are a cruiser and have NoForeignLands, then you can see who's near you and call one of them.
 
Aug 18, 2024
25
Sceptre 41 Vancouver
I think I might have unstressed that this is not for emergencies. , "Hey, I am 100 yards outside the marina and need a gallon of gas."
PAN PAN is not for emergencies... it's essentially a request for assistance. No need to "listen" to VHF, sending a DSC all-ships call will deal with it. Just takes a little education.

And, of course, there are the commercial assistance entities noted above. AND the coast guard.

So, really, doesn't seem needed.
 
Apr 25, 2024
527
Fuji 32 Bellingham
PAN PAN is not for emergencies...
Yes, it is. It is for emergencies where there is not an immediate threat to life, but it is not to be used for non-emergencies. Around here, you will get scolded pretty quickly by the Coast Guard if you were to use if for a non-emergency request.

No need to "listen" to VHF, sending a DSC all-ships call will deal with it. Just takes a little education.
DSC only works when the radio is on. The VAST majority of people do not have their VHF on, if they have one at all. Most people only turn it on when they, themselves, need something. That is the unfortunate truth. Saying that people should do it isn't the same as people actually doing it.

And, of course, there are the commercial assistance entities noted above.
Not in many areas and, I don't know if you've ever had to call for a tow but the one time we did, we waited about 2 hours and were adrift for most of that. (We were able to assist ourselves well enough during that period, but it could have gone differently.) Lots of boats on the water, but no one responded to hails. We know the VHF was working because we were able to contact the marina (though they did not have a vessel available). It never constituted an emergency and it ended just fine. But my point is that a quick response from a commercial service is nowhere near guaranteed and may not be possible, depending on where you are.

AND the coast guard.
Which is great ... in an emergency.

Several responses suggest that people are seeing this as something you would use in an emergency or if you needed a tow. I think I am maybe not explaining very well.

Again, I think this group is not the target audience.

This is not me asking for feedback, then rejecting the answers I got. I genuinely appreciate folks taking the time to comment. I just think that this particular group isn't necessarily the target user. (I myself am not the target user.) And, there seems to be a thread of not understanding the intended use, which is my fault for apparently not explaining very well.

I think it might be more productive to ask the question again when we have a prototype and screenshots so people don't have to think so abstractly about the question.
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,139
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Hey, I am 100 yards outside the marina and need a gallon of gas."
Suppose I was just outside the breakwater and out of gas/diesel at any of the marinas in the Puget Sound or the Salish Sea. In that case, I learned in the boating class that I can get on the VHF radio and call the local marina using the local channel 09, 66A or 16. It would be like making a local call to the marina office and asking for help. That is why those channels exist. If you tell them you are stranded, they will try to help. Sounds like the folks you found stranded were not aware of the services available from the standard VHF radio.

But, I am hearing a lot more voices saying they would.
I suspect these voices are cell phone users and lack the seamanship training that shares these important bits of knowledge.

I have read about some CG concerns on the East Coast regarding boaters relying on their cell phones for emergency and non-emergency contacts to the extent that the boat owner does not have a reliable radio to contact emergency services. Cell phones lack range and self-reliability. Their signal depends on a cell tower as compared to the direct connection a VHF radio provides. The VHF radio relies on the power source on the boat, not a cell phone tower. Other boaters can hear the transmission, and it is possible to relay a message from one boat to another to the CG with all parties on the same frequency. This is a thing not possible on a cell phone.

I think all of these support services have a place.