Why does my head fill with crap?

sdstef

.
Jan 31, 2013
140
Hunter 28 Branched Oak Lake
I had a nasty surprise when I returned to my boat after a few days. I left the head (jabsco} pump type completely empty and the sea cock for the water pick-up closed like I always do. When I returned a few days later, I found that the toilet filled to the brim with sewage, and it overflowed into the bilge via the shower drain. I replaced the pump unit in May, and it has been fine since. How can it siphon back when the inlet to the waste tank is higher than the pump by a couple of feet? After cleaning up the mess, I inspected the joker valve and it looks like new. Sometimes I have noticed that the pump is hard to pump. The vent is clear. What gives? Hunter 28 1991 model.
 
Jul 29, 2004
413
Hunter 340 Lake Lanier, GA
Hose didn't get cleared out, in our case due to a blockage somewhere in the hose to the holding tank. The joker, despite it looking ok, allowed the waste to leak back in to the bowl. In our case, it happened in the middle of the night while sleeping on board. Your really don't want to get woken up by that smell :-(

My departure process is now about 15 pump strokes to clear the hose, then a few more in wet mode to get some water in the bowl, then another 15 to clear the hose again.
 

sdstef

.
Jan 31, 2013
140
Hunter 28 Branched Oak Lake
Thanks Ed, I should have said there was at least 5 gallons in the bilge and the toilet bowl probably holds a couple more. The hose about 7-8 feet long x an inch and a half diameter would hold far less.
 
Jan 4, 2006
7,268
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
the sea cock for the water pick-up closed like I always do.
If not sea water forcing water into the bowl then ..................

Sometimes I have noticed that the pump is hard to pump.
............ I would suspect it was the tank that generated the pressure (fermentation) to push back into the bowl. And the only way the tank can generate pressure is if ..........................

The vent is clear.
................... the vent is actually plugged, and quite solidly. Next time you run your macerator, look at the top of the tank to see if it partially collapses. Or, open the cap to your dockside tank pumpout and see if it sucks.
 
Jul 29, 2004
413
Hunter 340 Lake Lanier, GA
Thanks Ed, I should have said there was at least 5 gallons in the bilge and the toilet bowl probably holds a couple more. The hose about 7-8 feet long x an inch and a half diameter would hold far less.
Yikes - 5 gallons? Holding tank split or some other type of leak in the fittings at the tank? I can't imagine that much pressurization in the tank to cause that kind of backflow even if it was completely full and the vent was completely plugged but maybe @Peggy Hall HeadMistress can comment.
 

weinie

.
Sep 6, 2010
1,297
Jeanneau 349 port washington, ny
The joker valve doesn't always seal 100%. If your holding tank is on the full side the motion of the boat at the dock or mooring might be enough to allow the slop to flow backwards down the hose. The pressure of all the slop in the hose will slowly seep through the valve and over a few days.... boom.... full potty.
The solution is to loop the hose several inches above the level of the tank or make sure the inlet for the tank is on the top of the tank and not one of the four sides.
 
Nov 6, 2006
10,093
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Was the big seacock closed.. the one that the macerator pumps out of ?? Macerators are not positive displacement pumps so when they are not running, water can flow backwards through them.. Check the vented loop that the macerator pumps out of to make sure the little air valve is allowing air to flow into the line but not out.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,945
- - LIttle Rock
I agree with Ed...there was no siphon. It took pressure to send a tankful of waste all the way back to the toilet...and flushing a toilet against a blocked vent pressurizes the system. The toilet was hard to pump because the pressure was creating tremendous back pressure...that's ALWAYS the first clue that the tank vent is blocked. If it was sometimes hard to pump, but sometimes not, it was because some of the pressure was escaping through the toilet between toilet uses.

So there's no doubt in my mind that your tank vent is blocked, pressurizing the system enough that you're lucky it didn't erupt in someone's face while pumping the toilet, or burst the tank. The tank also had to be full to overflowing (I'd bet real money it had been overflowing out the vent) to send that much waste back to the toilet...which is a good thing, because if you'd tried to pump out a pumpout would have pulled a vacuum that would prob'ly have imploded your tank. So you have a mess, but no damage.

The thru-hull may not be blocked, but did you also check the vent line connection to the tank...both that end of the vent line and the vent fitting on the tank? The odds are good that the flood relieved the pressure, but to be on the safe side, open the deck pumpout cap very carefully, with a hose at the ready BEFORE you remove any hoses from the tank. Clear out the fitting and the end of the hose. Then check the thru-hull again...scrape it out with a screwdriver blade or whatever works...if there's a screen in it, knock it out. Better yet, replace the "vent" thru-hull with an open bulkhead thru-hull that will allow you to prevent future vent blockages by sticking a hose nozzle up against it and backflushing the the vent line every time you wash the boat. (I suspect you also need to install a tank level indicator, but one thing at a time.)

After you get the mess cleaned up in the head and the bilge (I recommend using a power washer and a lot of detergent, followed by a very thorough rinse), apply a fine mist of PureAyre (a pump garden spray jug works best) to every surface, nook and cranny...DO NOT RINSE! Just let it dry, with all hatches open...turn fans on if possible, Remove cushions and softgoods as soon as possible to prevent odor from saturating them...put 'em out on deck if the weather is good.

The solution is to loop the hose several inches above the level of the tank or make sure the inlet for the tank is on the top of the tank and not one of the four sides.

That does a nice job of preventing waste that gets into the toilet discharge line when the boat is heeled from getting back to the toilet, but it wouldn't have prevented waste under that much pressure from getting back to the toilet.
 
Last edited:

sdstef

.
Jan 31, 2013
140
Hunter 28 Branched Oak Lake
Thanks Peggy. I will be reworking and replacing all the hoses early spring. Vent hose and thru hull too. I cleaned up the boat, took me 4-5 hours. Seems ok now as far as smell. Tank is pumped out and boat is on the hard for winter. Thanks again for the advice. I think you make a lot of sense on the back pressure thing. It has been randomly hard to pump all summer. It is a new boat to me so I am up against the learning curve.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,945
- - LIttle Rock
You're far enough north that there may be a little more to do to winterize plumbing--sanitation and fresh water. It can all be done on the hard.

Toilet and tank: if you haven't already done so, disconnect the toilet intake hose from the thru-hull and stick it into a gallon of non-toxic antifreeze--aka "the pink stuff...pump the whole gallon through the toilet into the tank. Just pouring it down the toilet won't protect the pump and the channel in the rim of the bowl. The boat is out now, so reconnect the hose and leave both the toilet intake thru-hull and the sink drain thru-hull open.

Fresh water: See the directions in the "Winterizing Plumbing" thread, which is the very first post in this forum. I posted it 6 years ago and Phil has kept it there all this time.

As for any residual odor from your "spill"...if it's cooled off by now in your neck of the woods, unless you put a heater on the boat to warm it up, you won't find out till the weather warms up again next spring...'cuz bacteria become increasing sluggish below 70 F and become dormant at 40. So I wouldn't replace hoses till you've treated the whole bilge--every surface, nook and cranny, under and behind everything-with PureAyre. It might also be worthwhile for us to have a one-on-one chat before you start, 'cuz there are likely to be better ways to plumb the system that it's done now.

Meanwhile, you might find it worthwhile to take Stu's advice. :) See link in my signature.
 

sdstef

.
Jan 31, 2013
140
Hunter 28 Branched Oak Lake
Peggy, I will order your book. Do you have some plumbing diagrams to follow in the book? This boat has no macerator and the manual pump to pump overboard has been by-passed, which is ok by me.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,945
- - LIttle Rock
I tend to avoid plumbing diagrams 'cuz in my experience "one size fits all" diagrams rarely fit even one and usually raise more questions than answers. However there are plenty of step-by-step installation instructions in it that are easy to apply to 99% of boats, and I'm always glad to questions.

As for your overboard discharge pump....you have to be in open ocean at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US coastline to dump a tank legally, so unless you plan to trailer the boat a VERY long way from home, better to just remove it...pumps deteriorate beyond repair when not used for years. If/when you do go that far, it'll be a simple matter to install another one.