Why did you buy a Honda 9.9?

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Jan 19, 2010
12,553
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Hey guys...

So I'm doing a bit of research on outboards. I have a Briggs and Straton 5 HP right now but I'd really love something that can charge my batteries (all I have at the moment is a small solar panel).

I've looked at the Tohatsu and Nissan etc. but... when looking at the Honda engines I notice that they sell Power Thrust Models in both 8hp and 9.9hp.

For example: If I'm just comparing the 25" models

8 HP Electric Start $2649.99 (12V 148W 12A) 117lb.
9.9 HP Electric Start $2899.99 (12V 148W 12A) 117lb


Seems like the only difference is 1.9 HP and $250.

Walking around the marinas the Honda 9.9 seems to be the favorite. Even on the lighter sailboats. Any reason I'd want the extra 1.9 hp that the 9.9 provides....I'm thinking of putting this on a MacGregor 26C? They just aren't that heavy of a boat and I think I could get to hull speed with a 5 hp. So what I'd really love is a 5 or 6 HP engine with an alternator that costs only $1000 or so. but that is another thread...

When comparing these two... why the 9.9 over the 8?

Am I just quibbling over $250 over the life of the engine so I might as well buy the 9.9 or is there another reason everyone seems to go with the 9.9?

So I'm just looking for some thoughts on why you bought a 9.9 or if you deliberately did not, why?
 
Jan 22, 2008
328
Beneteau 46 Georgetown YB
In New Jersey many lakes including Round Valley and Spruce Run reservoirs have a maximum hp rating of 10.0. Power boaters and sail boats alike try to maximize their bang for the buck and go for the 9.9's.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,553
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
In New Jersey many lakes including Round Valley and Spruce Run reservoirs have a maximum hp rating of 10.0. Power boaters and sail boats alike try to maximize their bang for the buck and go for the 9.9's.
Hmmmm I wondered where that point nine came from. I just assumed it was a quirk of the engineering.
 

Paul F

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Jun 3, 2004
827
Hunter 1980 - 33 Bradenton
The extra weight of the larger engines over the smaller 5-6 hp is a very good reason to keep looking for the smaller engine. I just bought a 9,9 for my dinghy and wish now that I had looked further for a smaller engine.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,553
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
The extra weight of the larger engines over the smaller 5-6 hp is a very good reason to keep looking for the smaller engine. I just bought a 9,9 for my dinghy and wish now that I had looked further for a smaller engine.
I hear you and...

I like this one
http://www.onlineoutboards.com/Tohatsu-6-hp-MFS6CUL.html

It is half the price, half the weight but also only 60% of the H.P. and less than half the alternator strength. Is there a reason I'd ever want that extra 3.9 H.P.? I just don't run the engine that much and I can get to hull speed at about 4/5th throttle on my 5 hp as it is...And I wonder if I'll need that extra alternator juice or if a 5A alternator will keep me topped off. We do plenty of 4 day cruises and I'm always afraid to let my kids run the fans at night because I don't want to run the battery down. But on a hot night a fan is the difference between a fun time and a misery. So.... can I run the fan all night and top off the next day with my solar panel and some putting around for an hour or two? I can do the calculations and it seems doable but how much margin do I need?... The 12A alternator on the Honda motors look really attractive. I could add an extra battery to the house bank and with an inverter I could charge the cell phones, laptops, dvd players etc.

I'm just trying to get a gut feel for why the Honda 9.9 is so ubiquitous.
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
The extra 1+ HP is only going to be at the rpm where HP is max. I doubt you will ever be at that rpm unless you were in a heavy current. Below that rpm the HP difference will be less and less and the torque will probably be about the same at cruise rpm.

As you mentioned you don't need all of that HP normally as you will be at displacement speed at less than 1/2 throttle. A 5 HP Nissan we have pushed our Mac classic at 5 knots into 20 mph winds at part throttle.

We do have a 9.8 Tohatsu on the boat now, but that was for the elect. start so that Ruth could start the outboard in an emergency (and the rest of the time). For ocean or other currents I'd also want the 8 or 9.8 on the boat so that I could have a higher thrust prop than what you can get on the 4-6 HP outboards.

The Tohatsu is 6 amps, but there again at 1/2 throttle it is probably less than that and I would assume the Honda would be the same so you might not get the 12 amps that are advertised under normal running.

The other reason we got the 9.8 was that you could not get the extra-long shaft (25 inch) in the 8 HP. We wanted that in case we ever needed it in the ocean but also so that we could raise the outboard 5 inches....



...to get the controls higher and so that the outboard would also rotate. Most of these new higher HP outboards are larger than the old ones and will not rotate much if at all in your motor well. Take that into consideration.

Our old Honda 8 HP (non-elect. start) would rotate in the well and it did have a charging circuit on it. If you don't want/need elect. start that might be an option.

There is more in the following link why we got what we did and also how we...



...modified the throttle, shift, tiller so that Ruth could reach the controls along with how we added a piece that connects the tiller to the outboard tiller in under 15 sec. to help with maneuvering in tight situations....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/outside-25.html

youtube video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UYc2ZHehS8&feature=channel

We have been very happy with the Tohatsu and would buy another. We took the original 'very' high thrust prop off and saved it as a spare and put on one that is still a 4 blade high thrust and it has worked very well,

Sum

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]============================[/FONT]

Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links
 
Oct 9, 2008
1,742
Bristol 29.9 Dana Point
I had a Honda 9.9 on a Catalina 250, then on the next boat too, a Capri 26. Both engines were indentical: 9.9 with elec start, which includes the 12 amp alt, and x-long shaft.
I have put about 300 hours on these engines combined.
Stellar reliability. Never failed. Never even coughed.
Amazing thrust - pushed even the 6,000lb capri up to speed in about 15 seconds with full throttle, and muscled the boats around pretty good at lower rpm. Top speed was about 6 knots in calm waters - nearly hull speed, which on the Capri was 6.4 knots.
Reverse was fabulous, nearly as much low speed power as forward. I can't emphasize enough how well the motors pushed the boats around.
Excellent fuel economy; consistently cruising at a 1\3 a gallon per hour. At 5 knots I was getting 15kmpg.
The weight of the motor was not evident on the Catalina 250. The Capri had a slight dip to the stern. However, the motor was way outboard on an extended mount, so the weight distribution was not ideal. The Mac will have the weight more forward, and centered. Also, I think the Macs are designed for even heavier motors.
Also, the weight is a handful when removing for service - but can be done without much trouble if a helper is available.
Last: The motors were smooth as silk, and quiet at lower to medium rpm. Normal noise at higher rpm.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,553
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
...

The Tohatsu is 6 amps, but there again at 1/2 throttle it is probably less than that and I would assume the Honda would be the same so you might not get the 12 amps that are advertised under normal running.

The other reason we got the 9.8 was that you could not get the extra-long shaft (25 inch) in the 8 HP.
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/macgregor-links-1.html
Thanks Sum -- That was a very thoughtful response. I think you may have the key piece of data I need. So your Tohatsu has a 6A alternator. Has it been enough? Have you ever had trouble keeping the batteries charged? If not, then I think the sail pro 6hp with its 5A alternator might be enough for me as well.

The sail pro 6hp tohatsu has the 25" shaft so that is not so much a concern.

... and you gave me something else to worry about. I had not put into my calculus the need for someone else to start the engine. What if I'm the one who falls overboard or I'm sick or injured :confused: (this should have occurred to me a long time ago)

The sail pro 6hp is manual start. I guess I should take the wife and kids out to the boat and see if they can get my Briggs and Straton to fire up. I really don't know if they can or not. Never really thought about it. It usually starts on the third pull for me (like clockwork) If they can't start the B&S then I guess I'm spending an extra $800 for an electric start motor.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,553
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Skipper
Thanks for the great review of the Honda 9.9. If I was flush in disposable income (I have two kids in college) I'd definitely buy a Honda... but then I wouldn't be shopping for a 25 year old MacGregor either:eek: Maybe I still will if I can find a used one with low hours.

I'd love to have a Catalina 250 WB on a EZ loader (tilt) trailer and a Honda 9.9. Shore power, AC & heat... but that will definitely have to wait ... Or maybe a Hunter 260. I love the cut away transom on those boats.....

But a nice thing about a Mac is that they are inexpensive so you aren't afraid to play hard in them. Whats the point of having a toy if you don't play with it.
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
Thanks Sum -- That was a very thoughtful response. I think you may have the key piece of data I need. So your Tohatsu has a 6A alternator. Has it been enough? Have you ever had trouble keeping the batteries charged? If not, then I think the sail pro 6hp with its 5A alternator might be enough for me as well.

The sail pro 6hp tohatsu has the 25" shaft so that is not so much a concern.

... and you gave me something else to worry about. I had not put into my calculus the need for someone else to start the engine. What if I'm the one who falls overboard or I'm sick or injured :confused: (this should have occurred to me a long time ago)

The sail pro 6hp is manual start. I guess I should take the wife and kids out to the boat and see if they can get my Briggs and Straton to fire up. I really don't know if they can or not. Never really thought about it. It usually starts on the third pull for me (like clockwork) If they can't start the B&S then I guess I'm spending an extra $800 for an electric start motor.
We have a lot of solar on the boat (180 watts on the last trip and now 200) so I don't how the outboard alone would of done. On our Lake Powell trip we had 40 watts on it and I didn't have the output of the 8 hp Honda hooked to the batteries and we ran the gen-set way less than when we went on a long trip to Idaho/Canada and only had the gen-set.

I think for your situation now add a second battery and run them in parallel all of the time. Start with a full charge before the trip. Think about adding a 60-100 watt panel, they are cheap now....

http://www.solarblvd.com/Solar-Pane...80-Watt-12-Volt-Solar-Panel/product_info.html

.... and are what we are using on the Endeavour.

Also get good 12 volt fans. Home Depot was selling these...



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Caframo-ULT...231?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item5d32d5703f

...for $25 a couple months ago and they are a great fan. We bought 5 to use on both boats to go along with the...



.... more expensive ones that have a timer and gimble mount. We use those over the V-berths. They move a lot of air on very little elect. All night would probably be less than 2 amp/hr.

On the outboard that sailpro is a nice looking outboard and is basically the same as our 5 HP long shaft Nissan which has been a good motor. It has the high thrust prop that would also work on any of the 4-5-6 HP Tohatsu/Nissan/Mercs and is what I would put on them if we used one for the Mac power.

The only buts are:

Twice in Florida going in/out the cuts I had a couple close calls with fixed objects underestimating the tidal current and the 9.8 with the high thrust prop save my bacon. After that I paid a lot more attention to what the tide was doing when going in or out of cuts. If you paid attention also I think the Sailpro or one of the long shaft 5-6 hp models with the high thrust prop would work. I'd still prefer the larger outboard if I was going to be in ocean situations like that a lot. On another note we used the handheld Garmin for tide info, but will probably start using OpenCPN since it has it along with currents for some locals.

The other but is the elect. start. Nice to have, but vital to us. We are both in our late 60's and I still don't have any real problems starting a pull start outboard, but Ruth can't. We sat alone for 3 days or so with no communication with the outside world in a side canyon on Lake Powell.....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/MacgregorTrips-3-Powell09/09-10-9-Powell-09.html

...after I fractured my shoulder and screwed up my rotator cuff after an accident in 50+ mph winds. I couldn't start the outboard for a couple days and neither could Ruth. Right then and there we knew we need elect. start since we like to go to remote areas. Also like you mentioned if you go overboard can whoever is still on the boat start the outboard to get back to you? I think a lot of people overlook this. In the first day out with the Endeavour we ...



...had Ruth starting the diesel and taking control of the helm within an hour or so. She can't do everything due to her strength level, but even when we were screwed on Lake Powell she was able to winch the anchor and shore lines in with the jib sheet winches and ...



...get us out of there.

One last thing and that is if you go to sell the boat a lot of people will be impressed with the higher HP since they don't know about hull speed and such, so it can be a selling point down the road.

Good luck,

Sum

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]============================[/FONT]

Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,553
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
I particularly like the shot with all the line in the cockpit....
 
Jun 17, 2007
402
MacGregor Mac26S Victoria Tx
Another factor in using the outboard's alternator. How long do you usually run the outboard? Would that realistically be long enough to do much charging? Remember the rated output is at full throttle. You probably will never be operating it wide open. I have a 26s and I can tell you an 8hp is plenty, especially the high thrust models.

The money you save on a smaller motor could be applied to a small solar panel setup.
You also didn't mention your type of sailing, (weekend only, extended cruising etc) your battery capacity and amp draw. All of that would be helpful in designing your charging system.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,553
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Another factor in using the outboard's alternator. How long do you usually run the outboard? Would that realistically be long enough to do much charging? Remember the rated output is at full throttle. You probably will never be operating it wide open. I have a 26s and I can tell you an 8hp is plenty, especially the high thrust models.

The money you save on a smaller motor could be applied to a small solar panel setup.
You also didn't mention your type of sailing, (weekend only, extended cruising etc) your battery capacity and amp draw. All of that would be helpful in designing your charging system.
Right! Well at the moment I have very little amp draw. I'm in the process of moving up from a Mac V22 to a 26D. I have not taken possession of the 26D yet (next weekend).

In my Mac 22, I have all LED lights and the only other thing I have that draws electricity is my VHF (hand held) and a fan. I have a small trickle charger solar panel and a 120V charge controller for when I have shore power. That seems to keep things going but I almost never let the kids run the fan. Our trips are usually 3 and 4 day weekend trips (Pamlico and Albemarle Sound). I'd like to make them week long trips with the ability to have a fan over each birth, for those 95 degree hot nights. And I'd like to let the kids charge their cell phones and dvd player and my wife's laptop. My wife has the kind of job where if she has her laptop, she is at work... so that would make it a lot easier for her to get away with me on one of my sailing adventures. And our internet is through a wifi so I'd like to charge that as well. I think I like Sum's idea of using the money I save buying the smaller outboard to buy a larger solar panel. I don't really run the engine that much. My B&S O.B. is three season's old and I bet I have less than 20 hours on her.

On my to-do list for cruises is Tangier Island in the Chesapeake bay and a trip down the ICW through the Great Dismal Swamp all the way to Oriental (with a few stop overs along the way).

Thanks for the insights. I think I have a much clearer picture now.

r
 
Jul 29, 2010
1,392
Macgregor 76 V-25 #928 Lake Mead, Nevada
Originally had Merc 7.5 2 cycle longshaft on Freedom. Changed to Honda 7.5 longshaft which is plenty on our V-25. Don't know if their is much weight difference between the two but always remember, weight, weight, weight. especially hanging off the stern. Don't think ya need the 9.9 but that is a matter of personal choice. Have had 7.5 for 30 years and it has been very dependable.
 
May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
While its true the motors alternator can put out more wattage at higher RPM, unlike generators, alternators can put out a significant amount of their peak power at lower rpm as well. The specs on the Honda 9.9 (as well as the 8.0) show it putting out max amperage (12 amps) at 3000 RPM, and 2 amps at 1000. The curve is likely close to linear so it should be accurate enough to draw the output along a line from 1000 to 3000, and using the outputs above have a relatively good idea what its producing between those speeds. IOW, it could likely deliver around 8 amps at 2000. Of course you would then need a tach to know how fast its running.....

Its discussed enough one would think the manufactures would offer a chart showing output vs rpm. But in the case of this particular motor, if you adjusted your demand down below 8 amps the motor should more than be able to keep up with it.

Why are Tohatsu's half the price of Hondas? Because they arent Hondas. I dont know the quality of newer Tohatsu's, but the older ones werent as high of quality as a Honda. Honda is kind of the Mercedes line quality wise, pretty hard to beat.
 
Jun 17, 2007
402
MacGregor Mac26S Victoria Tx
Right! Well at the moment I have very little amp draw. I'm in the process of moving up from a Mac V22 to a 26D. I have not taken possession of the 26D yet (next weekend).

In my Mac 22, I have all LED lights and the only other thing I have that draws electricity is my VHF (hand held) and a fan. I have a small trickle charger solar panel and a 120V charge controller for when I have shore power. That seems to keep things going but I almost never let the kids run the fan. Our trips are usually 3 and 4 day weekend trips (Pamlico and Albemarle Sound). I'd like to make them week long trips with the ability to have a fan over each birth, for those 95 degree hot nights. And I'd like to let the kids charge their cell phones and dvd player and my wife's laptop. My wife has the kind of job where if she has her laptop, she is at work... so that would make it a lot easier for her to get away with me on one of my sailing adventures. And our internet is through a wifi so I'd like to charge that as well. I think I like Sum's idea of using the money I save buying the smaller outboard to buy a larger solar panel. I don't really run the engine that much. My B&S O.B. is three season's old and I bet I have less than 20 hours on her.

On my to-do list for cruises is Tangier Island in the Chesapeake bay and a trip down the ICW through the Great Dismal Swamp all the way to Oriental (with a few stop overs along the way).

Thanks for the insights. I think I have a much clearer picture now.

r
On my Mac26s I put one of our 40watt panels on it and found that it could keep up with the daily demand. Normally I run a 20 watt for a weekend trip and then it will build the batteries (2 agm's) back up over a few days sitting on the trailer.

I run with a fixed mount and remote VHF, fans, auto tiller, some FM radio, anchor light, cabin lights (1 led, 2 cfl 12v)
 
Dec 20, 2010
294
Yankee Condore 21 Halifax
Hiee,

When we bought our new old to us boat, I was thrilled to learn that the Honda 7.5 we got with it had a 12 volt 5 amp output. I figured that would help alot with keeping the batteries charged 'NOT'. It might do a trickle charge to them but that is about all. I suspect its got to do with the output voltage perhaps being to low. We have measured it with the engine running and seen 12 volts but nothing much higher then that. I think they are designed more for running nav lights,fishfinders etc in small open fishing boats then actual charging. On the other hand once we got this ob running and using it its been superb. I only need around 1/4 throttle to motor out the 5 nm for out slip to the ocean. Its quiet and reliable and fuel usage seems to be ok. The biggest downside being its weight. Transom mounted on a 22 footer does settle the aft end down with 2 in the cockpit.

c_witch
 
Nov 18, 2006
183
Kirie Elite Elite 37 Moss Point MS
Rgranger, always heard as a youth that some areas required registration for 10 horsepower and above back in the 60's and 70's and that that is why the 9.9 was developed. Had a friend way back when whos Dad owned a small fish camp and all the boats had 9.9's and nothing but a large number (1 thru however many boats he had) painted on the side of the boat. That might be one explanation......
 
Jan 22, 2008
169
Beneteau 343 Saint Helens, Oregon OR
Had the Honda 8 on a Mac 26. As I recall, amps were not as advertised. Also 8 and 9.9 are likely same engine - different jets.
 
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