Why Davits?

[Ed Schenck]

There is a thread named "Davits" that I did not want to hijack although this question is certainly related. The question is "Why Davits?".

Bill Roosa makes a case in that thread for NOT having davits. Having towed my dinghy through the Erie Canal and all the way to Tampa I can certainly support his argument. Then Snotter writes "Furthermore...locking is harder dragging a dink; docking is harder alongside a pier when dragging a dink; and, it is a pain keeping a dink in the water in your slip next to your boat." Well we had no trouble in the locks and only one from sheer stupidity while pulling into a fuel dock. My Avon is light enough to pull on deck or, most often, to a storage area. The engine is a neat Honda 4-cyl air-cooled easily moved from the pushpit to the Avon and back.

So the negatives for me are lack of visibility(I dislike my bimini and dodger), expense, and having to remove it to swim or retrieve an MOB. Also not sure I would want it hanging out past the end of the dock in my slip.

And the positives are?

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

makes a good fender hanging out past the end of the dock (off the back of the boat). Mine has been hit a few times saving the transom from certain damage.

It's also a hat saver - my hat gets blown off my head and always lands in the dinghy (except for my favorite hat).

If those aren't enough good reasons )), the real issue to me is the drag while sailing exacerbated by dragging a motor on it when I didn't feel like removing it. Davits equal more speed.

 

[Rick Sylvester]

My 2 cents

As with most things nautical there probably won’t be a one-size-fits-all answer. The answers that work for you will depend on how you cruise.

Good idea for a thread though.

We’re kinda on both sides of that coin. We don’t have davits now, nor have we in our last eleven years of living aboard. We have an Achilles 9.6 air floor with a Nissan 9.8. This dink works great for how we’ve used our boat.

We’re not retired yet so we only cruise part time. That’ll change in 4 years, 8 months.

We don’t tow our dink. Ever. Well, almost never. We boat on some fairly open waters (Tampa Bay/Gulf of Mexico) and while towing would work fine 99.99% it’s that .01% that we’re concerned with. If weather turns bad quickly a heavy seaway can make dealing with a towed dink nearly impossible, or at least dangerous. Ours goes up on the foredeck, sometimes inflated and sometimes in the valise. Sometimes for longer passages I wrestle it down below.

Probably the biggest reasons we haven’t gone the RIB/davit route is because of the issues Ed points out. We don’t need a RIB now and the air floor works great for how we use it. However, it doesn’t do so well for long hauls in anything more than the lightest chop. Soooooo . . .

When we cruise full time this will change. We will trade to a RIB. This will make davits more desirable but we still won’t go the traditional route. I’ll be building a hard top bimini/arch that will solve several problems and will incorporate davits up high (extending aft from the top of the bimini.) This will solve the visibility and egress problems inherent with push-pit mounted davits.

The two biggest reasons I can think of for having davits are:

1. Security – Yes, you can add security by hoisting along-side or plopping it on the foredeck but those solutions come with their own problems. If you cruise long enough and leave your dink unattended in the water it stands a really good chance of being stolen. Especially in second or third world counties.
2. Convenience – If you’re doing a day hop it’s sure nice to leave the dink assembled and securely attached out of the water. If you’re at anchor and the weather suddenly gets really bad and you need to move to another anchorage messing with the dink will be the last thing you’ll want to do.

Even with davits we’d still disassemble it and lash the RIB to the foredeck for long open-water trips.

I know lots of folks on this board tow their dink successfully. This isn’t meant to be a my-answer-is-right-and-yours-is-wrong post. This is just how I see things happening for how we boat.

I just keep feeling like I need to prepare for that darned .01% (which includes my own bone-headed stunts BTW.)

 

[RichH]

As a long term, long distance cruiser, I find for davits:

Advantages
• Light wind sailing - less drag (probably the most important if you sail rather than 'motor')
• Convenience, especially in light to moderate conditions 'inshore' ... as no need to remove the OB
• Dinghy security, especially in 'de islands' or South FL ... but still cable-lock the dinghy TO the boat.
• Avoidance of fouling of the dinghy bottom when in 'high growth' waters
• A good place to mount "all 'de crap on 'de back".

Disadvantages
• Marinas that charge for *exact* LOA (including davits and/or dinghy on davits) ... best to have an 'alterable' ('swing arm' or folding arm) davit system when sailing in these areas -- especially along the AICW and in South FL, and most of the hoity-toity / hoy-palloi marinas in 'de islands', etc.
• Never ever have the dinghy on davits when in the open ocean: windage & prone to fill when pooped (and when filled then can add a LOT of weight to the stern)
• adds length to the boat when in 'tight' turning situations ... and other boats can easily misjudge your length when docking in 'tight' (facedock or 'long-dock') venues.
• Underside/bottom of dink now vulnerable to UV damage - attention PVC dinghy owners.

Towing a dink ----
• Vulnerable to swamping/filling/capsizing.
• Vulnerable to lifting out of the water and becoming a 'pin wheel' in storm/gale conditions.
• DRAG, DRAG, DRAG
• REMOVE the OB whenever possible ... as sea state changes 'are traditional' and often unpredicted. There is a new waypoint off Elbow Cay in the Abacos named: "Evinrude"; the holddown screws can 'vibrate' loose and in any above moderate seastate which will immediately cause the OB to commit suicide. If you do tow with the OB attached apply a 'safety jumper line' between the OB and the dink, 'just in case'.
• Fouled dinghy bottom, especially in 'high growth' waters ... sometimes it only takes a few days for 'seed barnacles' and other 'hard' marine organism to attach.
• Easy opportunity for theft, especially if the OB is left on it becomes a bigger theft target. It seems that dink thieves prefer OBs over dinghies.
• Never ever tow a dink when offshore. You dont want to be 'salvaging' a swamped/filled dink when you should be taking care of the 'boat' when in huge waves or swells. Plus, when severely pooped the dink can also come aboard ... with the dink fully loaded with water!!! ... and you can get injured and cockpit equipment, etc, can become 'cleared'. If you 'must' tow a dink in the open ocean, tow warps from the dink to keep it 'behind you'.
• Seabirds, and especially ducks, will use the dink as their 'rest platform' and toilet when you're anchored.
• Heavy rain squalls can easily fill the dink ... if on davits the dink can be easily and continually drained.

 

[Witzend]

Yea, it really comes down to what kind of sailing you do. For me it will make my weekend warrior style Chessy Bay sailing easier. We typically get light winds in the summer, so I don't want the drag. We now have a RIB, not going to haul it up on the deck, so the Davits makes sense for us.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Geez guys, that's a lot to think about. But thanks for taking the time to really elaborate. Twelve years with this boat and I still cannot decide.

 

[Seattle Scott]

Ed maybe just to a test run

Geez guys, that's a lot to think about. But thanks for taking the time to really elaborate. Twelve years with this boat and I still cannot decide.

and install one davit and see if it works out, before you install the other one

 

[Ed Schenck]

But if I buy them one at a time I won't get a deal.

 

[JerryA]

Ed,
You need to look for a buy one get one free deal.

JerryA

 

[Snotter]

Most of my sailing is single-handing. Davits make sense for me. If I had a strong hand aboard (besides me ;-) I, too, would probably prefer dragging the dink topside.

 

[Bill Roosa]

draging dinks topside

I read several times in this thread that folks are "dragging their dink to the deck" Are we not using the boom vang or main sheet or a halyard for this? I can't imagine doing this by hand over the lifelines even in a snug anchorage let alone when there is any sea running.

So how do folks get their dingy from the water to the deck.

From the towing position, I drag the mainsail halyard to the rear of the boat, attach to the dingy towing eye then the first mate uses the electric winch to hoist it till the dingy stern is over the lifelines. I grab it and guide it down as she lowers the dingy. Not that we do this much as the 5’2” first mate can’t see forward when the dingy is stowed forward.

BTW this works well for getting a MOB back on board but you have to use the spinnaker halyard as the main is usually still up.

On a different note I have found that it is much easier to get a conscious MOB into the towed dingy by just driving the boat past him than to do all the normal MOB stopping of the boat stuff. What is left of the crew turns the boat into the eye of the wind to stop the boat. The boat falls off, then steer toward the MOB keeping him on the same side as the dingy is being towed from. The MOB grabs the gunnels as the dingy goes past and rapidly moves to the dingy stern where he is dragged but can pull himself aboard. The boat then takes up a slow beating course; the dingy is pulled by the painter to the stern where the MOB climbs aboard.
This is also mentioned in a different form by some of the single handers who trail a line with knots in it behind the boat. If they fall overboard they can grab the line and pull themselves back aboard.
FWIW

 

[DannyS]

We have an oversized dinghy compared to most out there (11' 6" inflatable w/ 9.9 four stroke) and we occasionally pull it on deck when sailing out of the protected cruising grounds. We use the boom and attach the boom vang to the end of the boom to lift the engine. It works very well. I hang the motor on the inside of the pushpit which takes some of the stress off as opposed to hanging it off the back.
With the motor removed, I attach the whisker pole to the mast and run the spinnaker halyard through the end of the pole, then down to the dinghy and lift it from the towing bridal. The pole acts like a crane that keeps the dinghy away from the boat and it helps guide the dinghy on to the boat. It works slick but it's not fast. Start to finish, it's about 20 minutes worth of work but as I said, we do this only when heading into open water.

 

[Snotter]

I read several times in this thread that folks are "dragging their dink to the deck" Are we not using the boom vang or main sheet or a halyard for this? I can't imagine doing this by hand over the lifelines even in a snug anchorage let alone when there is any sea running.
FWIW

I believe you are quoting my post.

Lin and Lary Pardee, in a video they released, showed how easy it was using a forward halyard to lift their dink to the deck. It still took the both of them! This would only be an option for me if I had a roll-up inflatable. I still contend that for single-handed coastal and inland cruising that davits are the way to go.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Still following. . .and thinking. It really does boil down to how we use our boats. I would like to think that one day I will be able to set sail where I would need davits. But the reality is that I will probably be confined to day sails on Lake Erie. Maybe there will be an occasional overnight. In the years that I was on Erie most of my trips to Canada or the islands were to marinas for parties. In the case of Put-In-Bay we use the moorings and they come and get you. Or a friend will come get me in their dinghy. On rare occasions I towed mine and then didn't use it. Still contemplating.

 

[PrincessoftheLake]

Great thread! I still like having davits and for now at least, the advantages for me outweigh the disadvantges. I do agree with Danny and if I am sailing outside of the Apostle's and crossing the open lake I prefer to have the dink on board. Using it to retrieve a MOB is one of the reasons I ALWAYS have the painter cleated on a transom cleat. If we have to drop it quick we can.

 

[Steve W]

I also think the answer lies in how you use your boat. In my case, we're on a mooring and use the boat mainly on weekends (with a 'hopefully' 2-week cruise during the summer). If we're out for the weekend we don't necessarily need or use the dingy. Storing on deck, while do-able, is a PITA since whether or not we need it, we'd still have to get it off the deck once we arrive onboard.

So two choices, on a painter in the water, or up on davits. The problem with "in the water" is that even if we use it each weekend, it still picks up a lot of bottom growth just sitting for 5 days each week. Davits, on the other hand, keep her out of the water and keep the bottom cleaned, and she's always available at a moment's notice should we need to use it. And as someone pointed out - that's a great hat-catcher!

 

[catsailor]

It really depends on the boat.

My last boat ( Stiletto 27) was 1200-pound racing machine that didn't need a tender and having davits would have been embarasing and ludicrus.

My current boat is a 7,500 pound catamaran that was factory designed for davits, and they're great.
* On a cat the tender fits between the hulls, not behind, so it is not a hazard docking or in a seaway.
* They do not obstruct visability as they do not need to be so high.
* Hauling a tender on deck on a cat is worse because of the beam; the angle from the halyard to the side is worse. Virtually impossible with one person in many cases.
* Speed. Why have a cat and drag a tender? In fact, why clean the bottom if you're going to drag a tender?

If I did not have davits I would have 2 kayaks.
* A can't see having to get the thing in and out of the water every time I visist the marina (I'm not leaving it in the water).
* I can't see taking the motor on and off.
Too much like bloody work. I would take kayak.

 

[robertsapp]

What about snap davits, like the set Weaver makes? You have to glue pads to the boat, but they seem to have a lot of advantages. The dink is snapped to the boat, which would make it more stable for boarding. To get underway, you just rotate the dink up and attach the upper support arm. It's held vertically, so it shouldn't hold water. It rides lower, so it shouldn't block your vision aft. Plus they're only about 1/3 the cost. As for UV exposure on the underside, well, that's why we bought hypalon. Anyone have any opinions?

 

[Witzend]

I considered the idea.
Our mooring is rather exposed to boat wake, and sometimes the up and down action is a problem. I would think that trying to engage the snaps in that environment my be a problem. Also, how well does the glue on pads hold over time, and are they putting undo stress on the tubes other seams? I would think you would want the "Arc Product" for a RIG for sure.
The motor lever seems like kind of a kludge, so you would need to remove the motor every time, and buy the time you add it all up you have spent 1200, so for that I think I would still go with the Garhauer.

 

[DannyS]

I've been looking more and more at the Dinghy Tow system.
http://www.dinghy-tow.com/
Anyone have any thoughts on that?