Why bridle-rigged snubbers on monohull sailboats?

[Kings Gambit]

Bridle-rigged snubbers make sense when used on beamy powerboats that are wide near the bow, and on catamarans. But they make no sense to me when used on monohulls of comparatively narrow bows. They are no better there than single line snubbers in preventing “hunting” at anchor. They are much slower to rig and deploy than a single line. A single line is sufficient to hold the boat in strong wind because the “weak link” in anchoring is typically the anchor size and set not snubber (rope) strength.

I attach mine with a chain hook and run it out with the chain rode over the bow roller down to water’s surface. Stop it off at one the bow cleat. The hook easily drops off when the line is slacked so I can pull it in, and then recover (windlass) the chain and get underway. Very quick job.

I see many sailboaters with bridles bent over the bow detaching the assembly while recovering. Very slow. They all look very nautical, but what is the bridled snubber doing on a sailboat at anchor that a single line snubber cannot?

 

[dlochner]

They all look very nautical, but what is the bridled snubber doing on a sailboat at anchor that a single line snubber cannot?

The one main advantage I see is distributing the anchor load to 2 cleats instead of one. There may also be some small advantage to having the boat lie directly into the wind as opposed to a slight angle.

With that said, I use a single snubber unless I'm on a moor that requires two lines. The snubber uses a homemade version of the Mantus Snubber Pendant. It is not as easy to engage or disengage as a hook, however it is more secure that a single chain hook and causes no wear on the anchor. It is also multipurpose, as it can be used to take the load off a line as might be necessary if there is a winch override.

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[JoeWhite]

I am told the purpose of a snubbed is to provide "shock absorber" effect and prevent the anchor pulling out when the vessel moves backwards and comes to an abrupt stop as the chain does not stretch as does the snubbed line. One or two will do the same thing, but I am not so sure that it will keep the monohull from fishtailing

 

[Kings Gambit]

The one main advantage I see is distributing the anchor load to 2 cleats instead of one. There may also be some small advantage to having the boat lie directly into the wind as opposed to a slight angle.

I doubt the bridled boat will align to the wind more than one with a single line where, as I describe, the snubber line is veered with the chain over the bow roller, so therefore rests directly ahead of the boat. The chain is not being hooked after passing over the roller, with the line then being led through a bow chock to a cleat, which would put the boat unaligned with the wind.

Also, you could hitch a second line to the snubber line at some point aft of the roller assembly and then lead to the other cleat. Form a “Y”, thereby spreading the load between two cleats although the one line bears the full load going forward. I do this occasionally. IMO, the chain hook is very secure. Mine does not fall off when the point of its attachment to chain is under load. If the chain goes slack, its drooping weight is enough to keep the hook attached. Only when I slack the snubber line itself will the hook fall off. That can happen as I start to winch in the chain; i.e., the load is transferred to the windlass, so the snubber is slacked and the hook may fall off if it is not on the top side of the chain. But that’s what you wish, to detach the snubber.

 

[thinwater]

The main problem with simple chain hooks is that they will come off if they rest on the bottom, and with multihull bridles, that is not very unusual. Even the labyrinth style can come off if there is no lock--this has happened to me a number of times. It could happen with a mono with a long snubber.

I doubt distributing the load really matter; snubber loads are not that high, and if a single cleat can't be be trusted, it needs beefing up.

In some cases the cleats are not well possitioned to lead to the bow roller. A Y at the end of the snubber is a simpler solution.

In some cases the roller arrangement is a chafe problem, too much for guards to solve. Often the chain has roughened the side plates. But the same can be true of a bridle; what the boat yaws it will rub against the bow and who knows what.

As for yawing, that is probably a tie. The bridel has a slight edge to start, but once the bow falls off ~ 15 degrees, only one leg is loaded and the leverage is actually less than the roller. I've always just use a single line (unless multihull). In fact, I often use a single line on my tri for short stops, even though I have a bridle. It's easier. I stop yawing by lifting the rudder and using a chain coil kellet on the rode (goes right over the roller). Those two actions, in lighter winds, are just as effective. In strong winds the kellet lifts. Lifting the rudder always helps. A lot.

 

[Kings Gambit]

So we evidently agree. My snubber length runs maybe 25 ft from the cleat so should not reach the bottom as I anchor in greater than 15 ft. If the chain goes slack, the hook would not touch. I’ve solved the other problems you mention. The snubber is led through a snatch block attached to a strong point in line with the roller assembly. If I had no strong point there, I could make the “Y” at the at the snatch block by attaching it to a line with eye splice leading to the starboard cleat and stopped. That line could be one of those short WM dock lines if you aren’t good at splicing.

 

[dLj]

Bridle-rigged snubbers make sense when used on beamy powerboats that are wide near the bow, and on catamarans. But they make no sense to me when used on monohulls of comparatively narrow bows. They are no better there than single line snubbers in preventing “hunting” at anchor. They are much slower to rig and deploy than a single line. A single line is sufficient to hold the boat in strong wind because the “weak link” in anchoring is typically the anchor size and set not snubber (rope) strength.

I attach mine with a chain hook and run it out with the chain rode over the bow roller down to water’s surface. Stop it off at one the bow cleat. The hook easily drops off when the line is slacked so I can pull it in, and then recover (windlass) the chain and get underway. Very quick job.

I see many sailboaters with bridles bent over the bow detaching the assembly while recovering. Very slow. They all look very nautical, but what is the bridled snubber doing on a sailboat at anchor that a single line snubber cannot?

While I typically only use a single "snubber line" with my anchor, I have found sometimes using two, one from each forward cleat, can help the boat from sailing back and forth. It's not common, but I have had a couple places where the wind, wave and tides make using the double connection to "pacify" the motion advantageous.

I don't actually use a "snubber" (those rubber shock absorbers), I use nylon three braid line. I also don't use a hook as they can come off. I use a dyneema line wrapped with chafe protection wrapped around the chain that comes into a shackle - can't come off. It is a pain to set and retrieve so I only do it when conditions merit the added work to set and retrieve. I will attach both lines to the shackle.

dj

 

[Kings Gambit]

A hook is easier. Actually, I have two snubber lines of 3-strand nylon with chain hooks. When I feel the need, the spare one is hooked to the chain half-way to the bow roller going out, and slacked. If the first one falls off the chain will run a few more cm until the spare is taut on the chain. I can then reset the first one. But, that’s never happened b/c my chain does not fall off when it under load, as I said above.

 

[dLj]

A hook is easier. Actually, I have two snubber lines of 3-strand nylon with chain hooks. When I feel the need, the spare one is hooked to the chain half-way to the bow roller going out, and slacked. If the first one falls off the chain will run a few more cm until the spare is taut on the chain. I can then rest the first one. But, that’s never happened b/c my chain does not fall off when it under load, as I said above.

I thought we were talking about using two snubber lines and if they were useful or not. I simply described how I have my anchor set-up such that one could understand how when I use my two lines they might work in anchoring.

If a hook is easier or not easier I don't see how that expands the conversation.

dj

 

[thinwater]

Re. catamarans, this is boat specific, but we are not handling the bridle around the forestay on a little skinny bit of deck. Thus, handing on a locking hook is generally easy, and sometimes easier than relying on a lazy loop., which can be hard to control (the windlass control may not be near where you are working).

Different boats, different long splices. Definitely a subject where there are boat and situation specific answers. On my trimaran I sometimes skip the bridle, in part, because anchored in 3 feet of water the bridle apex will be on the bottom. I need about 7 feet of water to keep it off the bottom. Shoal draft, tiny tides.

 

[Kings Gambit]

I thought we were talking about using two snubber lines and if they were useful or not. I simply described how I have my anchor set-up such that one could understand how when I use my two lines they might work in anchoring.

If a hook is easier or not easier I don't see how that expands the conversation.

dj

Just parenthetical to the main point. People say that the chain hooks can, do, will, or might fall off while in use. I say so far, nyet.

 

[thinwater]

Just parenthetical to the main point. People say that the chain hooks can, do, will, or might fall off while in use. I say so far, nyet.

In my experience, ONLY if they rest on the bottom (or no lazy loop or some mistake I suppose).

 

[dLj]

Just parenthetical to the main point. People say that the chain hooks can, do, will, or might fall off while in use. I say so far, nyet.

I run at a minimum 15 feet of nylon 3 braid, and prefer to run closer to 25 feet. The way I anchor, I don't count on the connection to my chain to not lie on the bottom. Therefore, I do not use a hook. I use a connection that cannot come off no matter what.

I personally don't like the rudder snubbers commonly used. That's a personal preference. I have seen them tear, cut, break when you least want them to...

But I realize there are many systems, and other systems work perfectly fine. None of them are "perfect". All of them can fail.

dj