Why are selling prices so much less in Europe than in the US?

[dlochner]

No one has mentioned insurance yet. Offshore insurance is becoming very difficult to obtain. A friend is trying to get offshore insurance and is not having much luck. The companies say his sailing resume is fine, but his boat is not worth more than $100K. If you don't have the experience and training for a trans-oceanic crossing, insurance may be a deal breaker.

John Harris on Morganscloud.com has recently written about the insurance issue. It is a pay site, but a very modest ~$20 a year. If you are thinking about sailing back, this would be a good site to visit.

Check into the certifications/licenses you will need to cruise the Med. You don't want to buy the boat and then find out you can't sail it.

When the boat arrives in the US, there will be duty and import fees to contend with along with state registrations and USCG Documentation.

Another option is to ship the boat back. If the deals are really that good, then the cost of shipping will not be prohibitive and it avoids all the outfitting and licensing issues.

The Med is a challenging place to sail. A while back Ryan and Sophie Sailing did a series on sailing in the Med. If you are considering this option their videos are worth watching.

Finally, don't forget about the language barriers you will encounter.

All this is not meant to say it can't be done, just go into this adventure with eyes wide open and not clouded by dreams and fantasies.

 

[Timm R Oday25]

Explanation please . Are some of you saying ,that there are some European countries that would physically try to stop you from sailing from Europe to the U.S.?

 

[dlochner]

Explanation please . Are some of you saying ,that there are some European countries that would physically try to stop you from sailing from Europe to the U.S.?

There are a couple of questions here.

First the USCG has the authority to stop any vessel in US waters and to stop a boat from continuing if in their determination the passage is manifestly unsafe or words to that effect. I assume other countries have similar provisions. (The USCG also has the authority to stop and board any US Flagged boat in the world.)

Second, the licensing/Certification issues are not entirely clear. There is a UN agreement that some 40 countries signed addressing it. One result is the International Certificate of Competency. This is required in many countries for foreign nationals chartering boats in signatory countries.

Since I do not plan on sailing in Europe, I did not do a deep dive to learn the specifics for each country or the requirements for sailing your own boat. The digging I did, suggests that is not a simple yes or no answer.

One place to start is:

How to get an International Sailing License

To gain an appropriate sailing license, the ICC or SLC, to sail in the Mediterranean is now a simple process.

www.nauticed.org

On another note, the electrical systems on European boats are 220v 50 hz. One of the upgrades to the boat will be rewiring the AC system to work with the standard US 120v 60Hz.

 

[billder99]

How to get an International Sailing License

To gain an appropriate sailing license, the ICC or SLC, to sail in the Mediterranean is now a simple process.

www.nauticed.org

On another note, the electrical systems on European boats are 220v 50 hz. One of the upgrades to the boat will be rewiring the AC system to work with the standard US 120v 60Hz.

Thanks Dave, great stuff. I'll look into the licensing. I have ASA Bareboat Certification and lots of experience as bareboat skipper... hopefully that's enough. I'll read the referenced blog and report back.

Giving thought to wiring, it should be easy to make the conversion from Euro-AC to US-AC power, because they have more wires (4 in Europe, only 3 in US)... should be just a matter of changing power receptacles, AC lighting bases, and main-panel busses... no rewire should be needed. That's the AC system... the DC system is what it is (12/24/48 VDC), shouldn't require any changes.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Giving thought to wiring, it should be easy to make the conversion from Euro-AC to US-AC power, because they have more wires (4 in Europe, only 3 in US)... should be just a matter of changing power receptacles, AC lighting bases, and main-panel busses... no rewire should be needed.

European wiring is the higher voltage but still only 3 wires ( https://www.bluesea.com/support/articles/AC_Circuits/87/Differences_in_USA_and_European_AC_Panels ).Since the voltage is higher the amperage is lower, so the wiring gauge built for Europe may not be adequate to carry the amperage needed for US loads. Also any appliances may need conversion to work with 120V 60 HZ.

 

[billder99]

European wiring is the higher voltage but still only 3 wires ...voltage is higher the amperage is lower, so the wiring gauge... may not be adequate

Thanks Dave & David, that's what I get for playing electrician... humble appreciation

 

[dlochner]

Thanks Dave & David, that's what I get for playing electrician... humble appreciation

In the final analysis, the idea of buying a boat in Europe and sailing it back is an idea that sounds good on paper, however, it is a much bigger undertaking than buying a boat with in a few hundred miles of your home.

Also, with each step up in size, from trailer sailer, to small cruiser, to midsize cruiser, the size you are looking at, the number and complexities of the various systems onboard increase dramatically. AC systems are just one of those systems. Plumbing, DC electric, electronics, diesel are the major systems.

Keep visiting SBO and learning. And don't let your retirement dream of sailing the coast fade.

 

[TimFromLI]

I have seen the same thing with my boat. The European boats are always far cheaper- about 20% or more. My boat is far more common in Europe also maybe its the VAT

 

[FastOlson]

It's not just the 220 volt small size wiring and switching devices. About a decade ago several builders there were 'outed' in the British yachting press for installing seacocks made of some poorer brass compound that was not true bronze and were only warranted for about 5 years.

While the big Euro boat builders do adhere to, on paper, more build standards than we seem to have, do not be gulled into believing that their boat builders are any less practiced at 'gaming' their regulators than are the mass of high production cheap/bargain boat builders in the US.

(We have at least one US production builder here for many years that puts a shiny ABYC sticker their vessels and in fact their boats violate ABYC safety mandates quite commonly.)

Speaking of crossing an ocean, do not assume that having anyone "inspect" that used rigging is a substitute for having a new standing rig installed. That goes for any systems over ten years old.

 

[billder99]

Speaking of crossing an ocean, do not assume that having anyone "inspect" that used rigging is a substitute for having a new standing rig installed. That goes for any systems over ten years old.

Thanks for the words of wisdom. I know crossing oceans is no small thing... I've done many ocean crossings, in my younger years.... just haven't done it in a long time, never with my own boat. No question there are major expenses to do it all exactly-right (but many have crossed East to West, in the gentle season and route, without all of these changes):

• Complete overhaul of mast and boom (including wiring/lights/etc), rudder & support, engine outdrive...
• Major maint on engine & fuel tank(s), steering
• New standing rig, keel bolts & backings... chainplates? Very careful inspection, change if warranted.
• Add Hydrovane, SAT phone, EPIRB, raft

 

[NYSail]

I sold my first boat, a 1977 Cal 34-III to a gentleman from St. Petersburg Russia. When we were speaking I asked him why not just buy a boat in Russia or Europe. He said it was much cheaper for him to purchase a boat here and sail it back because after all the taxes one pays in Europe, the price is much higher. This was 20 years ago.... So he flew here, gave me cash and sailed the boat happily to Russia.

Greg