The past summer I was griping while applying yet another coat of teak oil to the wood on my boat. A friend (and I use that term very loosely) said, "Why don't you shellac it?" I promtly corrected him with saying, "You mean why don't I varnish it?" "No," he said, "I do mean shellac." He went on extolling the virtues of shellac such as it dries quicker, doesn't build-up year after year, doesn't turn white like varnish does when water gets behind it, can be removed with alcohol, doesn't need to be sanded and on and on and on. I want you guys with varnished wood to know I stood up for you. I said to my friend (and I am now using that term even looser than before), "You don't know #*%$@#. If shellac is so much better, then why don't people use shellac instead of varnish on their boats?" My former friend replied, "They do, at least the smart ones do, the others don't know #*%$@#." People - I need some help here. What should I say to this meathead as to why varnish is better than shellac; or did he actually stumble on some forgotten truth that shellac really is better than varnish? I need to know real fast as he's coming here for Thanksgiving. Thanks!
Who's right? Shellac vs Varnish
- Thread starter frankw15560
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SHELLAC – A TRADITIONAL FINISH
Common Shellac Myths Myth: Shellac is made from bugs or bug droppings. FACT: Shellac is a resin secreted by the lac insect to form a cocoon, much like a silk worm. It takes about 100,000 lac bugs to make 1 lb. of shellac resin. Myth: A shellac finish turns white when water touches it. FACT: Fresh shellac is remarkably water-resistant and, in most cases, will stay clear after hours of exposure to water, making it a great finish for most interior surfaces, including woodwork, trim, doors, cabinets, paneling, floors (yes, floors!) and furniture. Myth: Shellac scratches easily and is very brittle. FACT: Shellac is a durable finish that is much less brittle than lacquer and does not scratch as easily. Unlike polyurethane, a damaged shellac finish can be easily touched up or renewed by applying another coat. Myth: Shellac is incompatible with other finishes. FACT: Shellac will adhere tenaciously when applied over almost any other type of finish. When used as a sealer under certain polyurethanes, however, regular shellac may not be compatible because it contains a small amount of natural wax. To seal wood before applying polyurethane and other finishes we developed Bulls Eye® SealCoat,™ a shellac-base universal sealer that is 100% wax-free. Myth: Shellac turns an ugly dark color as it ages. FACT: Shellac is UV-resistant and does not yellow or darken with age. The dark shellac that people see in older homes is a less-refined version of shellac that either was naturally dark or was tinted by contractors when dark wood colors were preferred in the early 20th century. Myth: Shellac is an old-fashioned, outdated finish. FACT: Shellac has more modern features and benefits than any other wood finish in the world. ADVANTAGES 1. Non-yellowing when compared to varnish and cellulose-nitrate based lacquers. 2. Quick-drying. Many shellacked items can used the same day or shortly thereafter. 3. Wide variety of colors available. 4. Superior adhesion -- no other type finish can surpass it. 5. Excellent hardness -- it can be sanded and rubbed out well. 6. Excellent as a sealer coat to raise the fibers of the wood for subsequent sanding. Also seals in finishing contaminants such as silicone, waxes, dirt and oils. 7. Ease of repair. Because shellac re-dissolves in alcohol, scratches and other minor surface imperfections can be invisibly repaired by re-applying shellac to the damaged area. The new shellac melts into the old shellac allowing for perfect repair work. 8. Ease of removal. Old and new shellac can be removed with denatured alcohol which eliminates the need for harmful and toxic strippers. 9. Can be wiped on (padded), brushed or sprayed -- all with good results. 10. FDA approved -- safe for food utensils and children's toys. 11. No unpleasant or toxic fumes. DISADVANTAGES 1. It re-dissolves in alcohol so perfumes and strong alcoholic beverages like whiskey will mar the surface. 2. Forms white rings on contact with water. This is more of a problem with shellacs that have wax and old shellac surfaces. 3. Tendency to show scratches. The resistance to scratches can be improved by a simple waxing. 4. Has a shelf life after mixed in alcohol. 5. Not resistant to alkaline compounds. Alkaline chemicals such as lye and ammonia discolors and mars shellac because of its acidic composition. These chemicals are frequently found in household cleaning products. 6. Sensitivity to heat -- shellac starts to soften at about 150 degrees F. Hot items can mar the surface. Keep in mind that some of the disadvantages, like scratching and marring with alkalis, are easily repaired because of one of shellac's great advantages -- its ease of repair.
Common Shellac Myths Myth: Shellac is made from bugs or bug droppings. FACT: Shellac is a resin secreted by the lac insect to form a cocoon, much like a silk worm. It takes about 100,000 lac bugs to make 1 lb. of shellac resin. Myth: A shellac finish turns white when water touches it. FACT: Fresh shellac is remarkably water-resistant and, in most cases, will stay clear after hours of exposure to water, making it a great finish for most interior surfaces, including woodwork, trim, doors, cabinets, paneling, floors (yes, floors!) and furniture. Myth: Shellac scratches easily and is very brittle. FACT: Shellac is a durable finish that is much less brittle than lacquer and does not scratch as easily. Unlike polyurethane, a damaged shellac finish can be easily touched up or renewed by applying another coat. Myth: Shellac is incompatible with other finishes. FACT: Shellac will adhere tenaciously when applied over almost any other type of finish. When used as a sealer under certain polyurethanes, however, regular shellac may not be compatible because it contains a small amount of natural wax. To seal wood before applying polyurethane and other finishes we developed Bulls Eye® SealCoat,™ a shellac-base universal sealer that is 100% wax-free. Myth: Shellac turns an ugly dark color as it ages. FACT: Shellac is UV-resistant and does not yellow or darken with age. The dark shellac that people see in older homes is a less-refined version of shellac that either was naturally dark or was tinted by contractors when dark wood colors were preferred in the early 20th century. Myth: Shellac is an old-fashioned, outdated finish. FACT: Shellac has more modern features and benefits than any other wood finish in the world. ADVANTAGES 1. Non-yellowing when compared to varnish and cellulose-nitrate based lacquers. 2. Quick-drying. Many shellacked items can used the same day or shortly thereafter. 3. Wide variety of colors available. 4. Superior adhesion -- no other type finish can surpass it. 5. Excellent hardness -- it can be sanded and rubbed out well. 6. Excellent as a sealer coat to raise the fibers of the wood for subsequent sanding. Also seals in finishing contaminants such as silicone, waxes, dirt and oils. 7. Ease of repair. Because shellac re-dissolves in alcohol, scratches and other minor surface imperfections can be invisibly repaired by re-applying shellac to the damaged area. The new shellac melts into the old shellac allowing for perfect repair work. 8. Ease of removal. Old and new shellac can be removed with denatured alcohol which eliminates the need for harmful and toxic strippers. 9. Can be wiped on (padded), brushed or sprayed -- all with good results. 10. FDA approved -- safe for food utensils and children's toys. 11. No unpleasant or toxic fumes. DISADVANTAGES 1. It re-dissolves in alcohol so perfumes and strong alcoholic beverages like whiskey will mar the surface. 2. Forms white rings on contact with water. This is more of a problem with shellacs that have wax and old shellac surfaces. 3. Tendency to show scratches. The resistance to scratches can be improved by a simple waxing. 4. Has a shelf life after mixed in alcohol. 5. Not resistant to alkaline compounds. Alkaline chemicals such as lye and ammonia discolors and mars shellac because of its acidic composition. These chemicals are frequently found in household cleaning products. 6. Sensitivity to heat -- shellac starts to soften at about 150 degrees F. Hot items can mar the surface. Keep in mind that some of the disadvantages, like scratching and marring with alkalis, are easily repaired because of one of shellac's great advantages -- its ease of repair.
Your friend speaks the thruth.
Shellac dries fast, doesn't yellow and can be cleaned with alcohol. It is mostly used in wood project restorations. Varnish is more popular as it is cheaper, comes in different shades of wood colors as opposed to mostly clear and amber and it is easier to apply. I use a form of shellac as a waterproof gasket sealer.
Shellac dries fast, doesn't yellow and can be cleaned with alcohol. It is mostly used in wood project restorations. Varnish is more popular as it is cheaper, comes in different shades of wood colors as opposed to mostly clear and amber and it is easier to apply. I use a form of shellac as a waterproof gasket sealer.
Shellac
Great explanation of shellac. The disadvantages are good reasons not to use shellac on any outside wood of my wood. 1. It re-dissolves in alcohol so perfumes and strong alcoholic beverages like whiskey will mar the surface. Great with drinkers onboard. 2. Forms white rings on contact with water. This is more of a problem with shellacs that have wax and old shellac surfaces. Boat are in water! 3. Tendency to show scratches. The resistance to scratches can be improved by a simple waxing. People walk on use boats.. and who wants to wax? 4. Has a shelf life after mixed in alcohol. 5. Not resistant to alkaline compounds. Alkaline chemicals such as lye and ammonia discolors and mars shellac because of its acidic composition. These chemicals are frequently found in household cleaning products. Guess you can never clean it. 6. Sensitivity to heat -- shellac starts to soften at about 150 degrees F. Hot items can mar the surface. Hot summer day? Anyone for soft wood protection. I guess thats why the smart sailors use modern finishes on there boats and the oldtimers can work on prepring their wood and sit on the dock and admire how good the wood looks! SH
Great explanation of shellac. The disadvantages are good reasons not to use shellac on any outside wood of my wood. 1. It re-dissolves in alcohol so perfumes and strong alcoholic beverages like whiskey will mar the surface. Great with drinkers onboard. 2. Forms white rings on contact with water. This is more of a problem with shellacs that have wax and old shellac surfaces. Boat are in water! 3. Tendency to show scratches. The resistance to scratches can be improved by a simple waxing. People walk on use boats.. and who wants to wax? 4. Has a shelf life after mixed in alcohol. 5. Not resistant to alkaline compounds. Alkaline chemicals such as lye and ammonia discolors and mars shellac because of its acidic composition. These chemicals are frequently found in household cleaning products. Guess you can never clean it. 6. Sensitivity to heat -- shellac starts to soften at about 150 degrees F. Hot items can mar the surface. Hot summer day? Anyone for soft wood protection. I guess thats why the smart sailors use modern finishes on there boats and the oldtimers can work on prepring their wood and sit on the dock and admire how good the wood looks! SH
Traditionally, shellac has been used as a...
sealer between an oiled, stained or natural wood finish before applying a varnish or lacquer top coat. As a long time cabinet maker I would never use shellac as the final finish on a piece of furniture, unless I wanted to replicate the finish on an historical piece when shellac finishes were common. I prefer lacquer over varnish for a variety of reasons. Durable, easy to apply, does not discolor over time and does not tend to mask the wood coloring as varnish does. When we purchased our 1991 model boat seven years ago I wiped on two applications of teak oil to all cabinet surfaces and nothing since. To this day the teak still looks vibrant and new looking. At some point the teak holly sole, which has some form of polyurethane or varnish top coat, will need refinishing. At that point all I need to do is first use a finish cleaner to remove any old oils and grime, fill dents and gouges with teak/holly tinted putty, lightly sand the old finish using a 350 grit sand paper, then apply ten light spray coats of lacquer to bring the sole back to its original new luster. Terry
sealer between an oiled, stained or natural wood finish before applying a varnish or lacquer top coat. As a long time cabinet maker I would never use shellac as the final finish on a piece of furniture, unless I wanted to replicate the finish on an historical piece when shellac finishes were common. I prefer lacquer over varnish for a variety of reasons. Durable, easy to apply, does not discolor over time and does not tend to mask the wood coloring as varnish does. When we purchased our 1991 model boat seven years ago I wiped on two applications of teak oil to all cabinet surfaces and nothing since. To this day the teak still looks vibrant and new looking. At some point the teak holly sole, which has some form of polyurethane or varnish top coat, will need refinishing. At that point all I need to do is first use a finish cleaner to remove any old oils and grime, fill dents and gouges with teak/holly tinted putty, lightly sand the old finish using a 350 grit sand paper, then apply ten light spray coats of lacquer to bring the sole back to its original new luster. Terry
The 2nd sentance is the clarifier of disadvantage
"This is more of a problem with shellacs that have wax and old shellac surfaces.".
"This is more of a problem with shellacs that have wax and old shellac surfaces.".
I'm not so smart about finsihes ...
But I have some Bulls Eye Shellac and on the can it says that it may be applied over soundly adhered finishes including lacquer, polyurethane, and varnish. I used it on trim inside our cabin this year. I applied 2 coats of Epiphanes varnish and sealed it with 2 coats of shellac that I applied with a foam brush. It looks fantastic and gives the wood just the warm glow I was looking for. We'll see how it stands up, but being interior trim, it isn't subjected to much abuse. One piece is at the threshhold to the companionway. That will be the test case. Frank, be nice! He may be right and it is Thanksgiving!
But I have some Bulls Eye Shellac and on the can it says that it may be applied over soundly adhered finishes including lacquer, polyurethane, and varnish. I used it on trim inside our cabin this year. I applied 2 coats of Epiphanes varnish and sealed it with 2 coats of shellac that I applied with a foam brush. It looks fantastic and gives the wood just the warm glow I was looking for. We'll see how it stands up, but being interior trim, it isn't subjected to much abuse. One piece is at the threshhold to the companionway. That will be the test case. Frank, be nice! He may be right and it is Thanksgiving!
For a long time shellac was the finish of choice
for wood floors. I prefer if for drawer boxes because it smells nice. It is one of the few coatings that will seal pine knots for painting. Varnish produces a longer lasting finish and is not subject to some of the problems shellac has. It really becomes a matter of knowing you options and applying the best product for the job. Careful reading and following the container labels is essential to achieving a satisfactory result.
for wood floors. I prefer if for drawer boxes because it smells nice. It is one of the few coatings that will seal pine knots for painting. Varnish produces a longer lasting finish and is not subject to some of the problems shellac has. It really becomes a matter of knowing you options and applying the best product for the job. Careful reading and following the container labels is essential to achieving a satisfactory result.
When applying new varnish over an old finish
use 150 grit sand paper or bronze wool, NOT STEEL WOOL, for preparing old surface to accept the new coat(s) of varnish for best adheasion.
use 150 grit sand paper or bronze wool, NOT STEEL WOOL, for preparing old surface to accept the new coat(s) of varnish for best adheasion.
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