If you were going to buy a boat that needed to have the bottom cleaned and painted, who should pay, the buyer or the seller. Thanks
- Status
Dirty bottom
Why should you pay to clean the bottom of his boat? Just because it needs paint does not mean it should not be cleaned. The seller should pay to clean the bottom of a boat he is trying to sell. Then the buyer can have a diver check out the condition of the bottom before making an offer and before going to the expense of hauling the boat for survey. The fact that it needs painted should be reflected in the negotiations. How do you know it's not full of blisters when it is dirty? After you own it then you pay to clean the bottom. Regards, Big Joe
Why should you pay to clean the bottom of his boat? Just because it needs paint does not mean it should not be cleaned. The seller should pay to clean the bottom of a boat he is trying to sell. Then the buyer can have a diver check out the condition of the bottom before making an offer and before going to the expense of hauling the boat for survey. The fact that it needs painted should be reflected in the negotiations. How do you know it's not full of blisters when it is dirty? After you own it then you pay to clean the bottom. Regards, Big Joe
cleaning vs painting
Cleaning should be done by the owner. The boat is still the seller's even on the hard, and it's almost like another maintenance issue (would you as the prospective buyer pay for the fuel or other expenses for a sea trial?). You as the buyer cannot get a complete idea of the condition of the bottom if it is not cleaned. In that case, how can the owner expect to sell it. Paint is a little different. You'll need to worry about its performance through the season, and the seller may care less if the boat sat on stands till she sells. But it is a negotiating point, like other maintenance issues. I sold a boat once and the buyer's insistence on a new coat of paint earned me a bit of a premium that I didn't mind, but of course it can go the other way if you insist on the discount, which I like the others would recommend you try.
Cleaning should be done by the owner. The boat is still the seller's even on the hard, and it's almost like another maintenance issue (would you as the prospective buyer pay for the fuel or other expenses for a sea trial?). You as the buyer cannot get a complete idea of the condition of the bottom if it is not cleaned. In that case, how can the owner expect to sell it. Paint is a little different. You'll need to worry about its performance through the season, and the seller may care less if the boat sat on stands till she sells. But it is a negotiating point, like other maintenance issues. I sold a boat once and the buyer's insistence on a new coat of paint earned me a bit of a premium that I didn't mind, but of course it can go the other way if you insist on the discount, which I like the others would recommend you try.
In a word
the buyer. The seller doesn't need a fresh bottom once sold.If the boat can't be sold unless it has a fresh bottom it will have one already.The sale contract needs to spell out who will pay & how much if that work could be done after the sale. the seller will often make low ball DIY estimates and the buyer will have magic, no hassle expections. As per Tim. who pays to get a new engine If you were going to buy a boat that needed to have new engine installed, who should pay, the buyer or the seller. ..sure mate under them barnicles are a vergin teak hull
the buyer. The seller doesn't need a fresh bottom once sold.If the boat can't be sold unless it has a fresh bottom it will have one already.The sale contract needs to spell out who will pay & how much if that work could be done after the sale. the seller will often make low ball DIY estimates and the buyer will have magic, no hassle expections. As per Tim. who pays to get a new engine If you were going to buy a boat that needed to have new engine installed, who should pay, the buyer or the seller. ..sure mate under them barnicles are a vergin teak hull
Does he want to sell his boat??
Unless you are getting it for a really really really low price, I would insist that the bottom be, at the very least, clean before purchase. Never know whats hiding under there!! Would you buy a car covered by a canvas cover without looking under it first?? Painting, well thats a different story. If you dont want to prep and paint, negotiate that but if you can't see what under the barnacles, don't buy it. For the most part, you should be responsible for painting it! Jack Manning s/v Victim of Fate Atlantic City, NJ
Unless you are getting it for a really really really low price, I would insist that the bottom be, at the very least, clean before purchase. Never know whats hiding under there!! Would you buy a car covered by a canvas cover without looking under it first?? Painting, well thats a different story. If you dont want to prep and paint, negotiate that but if you can't see what under the barnacles, don't buy it. For the most part, you should be responsible for painting it! Jack Manning s/v Victim of Fate Atlantic City, NJ
What does the surveyor require?
If the deal goes thru and you buy the boat - Then ultimately you benefit from the clean bottom - and your going to pay either directly or indirectly. The problem is if the surveyor requires a clean bottom in order to assess - and then the deal doesn't go thru - you don't want to be out of pocket both the survey and the cleaning - when the vendor is the benificary of the cleaning (or whoever buys subsequently) If this is a real possibility then you may want the seller to pay for the cleaning and then re-imburse him if the deal goes thru.
If the deal goes thru and you buy the boat - Then ultimately you benefit from the clean bottom - and your going to pay either directly or indirectly. The problem is if the surveyor requires a clean bottom in order to assess - and then the deal doesn't go thru - you don't want to be out of pocket both the survey and the cleaning - when the vendor is the benificary of the cleaning (or whoever buys subsequently) If this is a real possibility then you may want the seller to pay for the cleaning and then re-imburse him if the deal goes thru.
Normally buyer has the boat pulled for survey.
Normally the buyer will have the boat pulled for the survey. This will include a lift and a power wash. If the buyer deems the boat suitable for purchase he would want to save the cost of another pull to have the bottom done.
Normally the buyer will have the boat pulled for the survey. This will include a lift and a power wash. If the buyer deems the boat suitable for purchase he would want to save the cost of another pull to have the bottom done.
Who pays
Several years ago I was Looking at a 36' Formosa Ketch, the price was good as the seller had already bought a new boat. The Ketch had a 4" beard, so I had to pay to have it hauled, and cleaned for the survey. I ended up not buying the boat, but if I had, the cost would have been deducted from the sale price.
Several years ago I was Looking at a 36' Formosa Ketch, the price was good as the seller had already bought a new boat. The Ketch had a 4" beard, so I had to pay to have it hauled, and cleaned for the survey. I ended up not buying the boat, but if I had, the cost would have been deducted from the sale price.
There really are no hard and fast
... rules for this kind of thing. As Tim and others note, everything about the sale of a boat is negotiable. Yet typically, a prospective buyer, who has signed a contract and put down a deposit, pays for a short haul for the bottom and running gear to be inspected. If the boat is already on the hard, the buyer typically pays to have it launched for a sea trial. What normally happens after that is if you decide to buy the boat, it stays in the water awaiting movement to your home slip. If you decide against buying it, you pay to have it hauled back onto the hard. In this particular case, I have to say that nice looking, clean boats, that are well equipped and everything works, always sell -- and always sell faster than boats that are dirty, have growth on the bottom, and gear in bad condition. Any seller who is really serious about selling ought to know that if his boat's bottom needs to be cleaned (not necessarily painted -- but if it were my boat I'd paint the bottom too), he ought to have it cleaned or clean it himself.
... rules for this kind of thing. As Tim and others note, everything about the sale of a boat is negotiable. Yet typically, a prospective buyer, who has signed a contract and put down a deposit, pays for a short haul for the bottom and running gear to be inspected. If the boat is already on the hard, the buyer typically pays to have it launched for a sea trial. What normally happens after that is if you decide to buy the boat, it stays in the water awaiting movement to your home slip. If you decide against buying it, you pay to have it hauled back onto the hard. In this particular case, I have to say that nice looking, clean boats, that are well equipped and everything works, always sell -- and always sell faster than boats that are dirty, have growth on the bottom, and gear in bad condition. Any seller who is really serious about selling ought to know that if his boat's bottom needs to be cleaned (not necessarily painted -- but if it were my boat I'd paint the bottom too), he ought to have it cleaned or clean it himself.
So, when you buy a car ....
.... do you assume it comes with a FULL tank of gas? If the ad or brochure didn't say "comes with fresh/new bottom paing", then new bottom paint would be an extra. Look at any dealer lising for a new boat where the list of extras or included options are lited and you'll see bottom paint listed either as an included line item or as an extra. For used boats, if new bottom paint is included it'll say so, otherwise it's as-is or as negotiated.
.... do you assume it comes with a FULL tank of gas? If the ad or brochure didn't say "comes with fresh/new bottom paing", then new bottom paint would be an extra. Look at any dealer lising for a new boat where the list of extras or included options are lited and you'll see bottom paint listed either as an included line item or as an extra. For used boats, if new bottom paint is included it'll say so, otherwise it's as-is or as negotiated.
Local wisdom on bottom jobs
What is the 'standard' period between bottom jobs in your local waters? I would expect the current bottom paint to be within that period. If the current paint is not reasonably close to that period, I would expect the owner to have the bottom brought 'up to date'. Check with local boatyards to find out what the expected life of bottom paint is in your waters and check that against the maintenance records for your prospective boat.
What is the 'standard' period between bottom jobs in your local waters? I would expect the current bottom paint to be within that period. If the current paint is not reasonably close to that period, I would expect the owner to have the bottom brought 'up to date'. Check with local boatyards to find out what the expected life of bottom paint is in your waters and check that against the maintenance records for your prospective boat.
Neither is obligated
Neither is obligated to pay for the bottom job. Its all up for negotiation. It all boils down to....do you want to buy the boat more than the seller wants to sell it? There are no hard and fast rules. If you were selling your boat, like most people, you want it gone, but dont want to invest any more money into it. As a seller, how far are you willing to go? Answer....it all depends. Tony B
Neither is obligated to pay for the bottom job. Its all up for negotiation. It all boils down to....do you want to buy the boat more than the seller wants to sell it? There are no hard and fast rules. If you were selling your boat, like most people, you want it gone, but dont want to invest any more money into it. As a seller, how far are you willing to go? Answer....it all depends. Tony B
Like a car...
Some folks selling a car with new tires think they can add the cost of the tires on to the value of the car and recoup their expense. But ALL cars have tires, so if you have worn out the ones you have, don't expect the prospective buyer to pay you full value for the tires you put on. In fact, I'd rather buy the car with ragged rubber and then make my own selection from there, paying accordingly less for the car, of course. If the bottom of the boat needs cleaning, then the seller is allowing you to assume the worst, and you should do so unless you have a good reason to know better. There are many purchasers of boats who passed on a survey, only to learn later their "new" boat needs a bottom job and lots of other repairs. If he doesn't want to clean the bottom, I'd assume he has something to hide and make my offer based on that. Wouldn't you clean the interior and exterior of a car you were hoping to sell?
Some folks selling a car with new tires think they can add the cost of the tires on to the value of the car and recoup their expense. But ALL cars have tires, so if you have worn out the ones you have, don't expect the prospective buyer to pay you full value for the tires you put on. In fact, I'd rather buy the car with ragged rubber and then make my own selection from there, paying accordingly less for the car, of course. If the bottom of the boat needs cleaning, then the seller is allowing you to assume the worst, and you should do so unless you have a good reason to know better. There are many purchasers of boats who passed on a survey, only to learn later their "new" boat needs a bottom job and lots of other repairs. If he doesn't want to clean the bottom, I'd assume he has something to hide and make my offer based on that. Wouldn't you clean the interior and exterior of a car you were hoping to sell?
Great analogy, Bob
We ought to save this one and re-use from time to time as similar questions are always coming up.
We ought to save this one and re-use from time to time as similar questions are always coming up.
- Status