Which engine scares you?

dscribner · Aug 10, 2014

Re: which engine scares you

The only engine that scares me is the one that acts up 8 miles out

woodster · Aug 10, 2014

Re: which engine scares you

thats a hard one ...the 4000 thousand hr engine may be in very good shape...it would depend on the boat yards reputation.....there is a man on here with a westerbeke that has i think 10,000 hrs on his ...check out which boat has the most extras and see if it makes about a 5k difference more for the older one...also do some sea trials with both...and you may need to consult a mechanic that is a neutral party that you trust ...personally 4k hrs is not that much if......what you say is correct...or better yet let the admiral decide and support her decision

Don S/V ILLusion · Aug 10, 2014

Re: which engine scares you

Are you willing to depend on a consensus opinion of a few people on some obscure internet site or would it be prudent to ask that question of a marine diesel mechanic after having inspected both?

kito · Aug 10, 2014

Re: which engine scares you

What kind of boat are they in? Are they the same size boats?. Conventional wisdom would say the 174hr 40hp ran in fresh water. All depends on how they were maintained.

BobM · Aug 10, 2014

Don't give " boatyard maintained" too much credit. It probably means some kid who didn't know his ass from his elbow did the work. I was out of time and paid to have my oil and transmission fluids changed and to have what I though was a mechanic Kristen to noise. I asked to speak to said mechanic, a 20 year old kid who had no idea what the sound was (stuffing box needed burping and nut was too tight). I checked his work, he replaced two perfectly good belts and overfilled both the oil and transmission. The transmission easily had double the amount it should have. It took me a half hour to fix. I should have asked for some money back but we were in a hurry to leave and he put us behind already. My his was at a very well regarded yard too.

Very few yards do good work on sailboats/small diesels from what I have read on here.

You will probably put a lot of cash into a poorly equipped freshwater boat if the other boat has been cruised. However, cruising wears out everything, so be sure what's aboard is worth it.

Joe · Aug 10, 2014

Re: which engine scares you

Neither engine scares me, and it shouldn't you either. Have a diesel mechanic check them both. If they act scared.. you have your answer.

If I were buying a boat for some long term cruising... I'd buy a boat that's designed and equipped for long term cruising.

Sprega · Aug 10, 2014

Have the oil anillized by a reputable lab that specializes in diesal engines. That will give you a very good idea of the condition of the bearings and rings. Also, ask around in your area and find a reputable mechanic that understand oil analysis to go over the lab results and inspect the engine.

Scotty C-M · Aug 10, 2014

"Have the oil analyzed by a reputable lab that specializes in diesel engines. That will give you a very good idea of the condition of the bearings and rings. Also, ask around in your area and find a reputable mechanic that understand oil analysis to go over the lab results and inspect the engine." (both engines)

+1 :dance:

If both engines check out, pick the boat you like the best!! More Hp would be nice.

Benny17441 · Aug 10, 2014

Re: which engine scares you

Look at the condition of each. Rust? Electrical wiring? Water leaks? Oil leaks? How quick each starts from dead cold. Smoke? Coolant condition? Any tapping noises? Smoothness through the RPM range? It is more likely that an hour meter was replaced in 13 years that a boat of that age would have such a low hour count. Where are you getting your confirmation of the actual number of hours?

capta · Aug 10, 2014

Where are you getting the engine hours on the 174 hour engine if there are no maintenance records? Absolutely the WORST thing one can do to any piece of equipment, but especially an engine, is not use it. If the oil sits in an engine, unused for just 4 months, that oil is in worse condition than the oil in a good engine after a hundred or more hours in the same amount of time. Then you operate the engine with the unused oil and you are running your engine without good lubrication.
You should probably run both engines for an hour or so and then take an oil sample to a lab for analysis.

Don S/V ILLusion · Aug 10, 2014

Richard Olden said:
Oil analysis....how can I get my hand on information on a lab where I can send a sample?

If you don't know of a lab in your local area, a google search will display many options for you to send a sample for analysis.

Despite the advertising, one analysis doesn't tell you much. Often, it tells you nothing. The value of oil analysis is only realized by observing trends over a period during which multiple samples are analyzed and the results compared to monitor wear. Unfortunately, the companies marketing their business fairl to mention the like tied value of one single analysis.

Stu Jackson · Aug 10, 2014

Re: which engine scares you

Don's right, one oil analysis can only tell you if you have metal shavings in the oil, it takes to two tango, oops, to make any analysis worthwhile, 'cuz they compare sample #1 to sample #2.

higgs · Aug 10, 2014

Re: which engine scares you

I would go for the boat that fits my needs best. Odds are both engines will go a long time.

CarlN · Aug 10, 2014

A single oil analysis on these engines will tell you little or nothing of the things you should worry about. Unusual metal wear (or worse, shavings) is really unlikely in this engine. If it does happens, the engine usually stops working in short order - and catastrophically.

While I would certainly have a mechanic check. Here's my quick test:

Easy starting from cold? (put your hand on the block to be sure it's cold before starting)
Oil on dipstick wrong (milky or diesel smell)
Good cooling water flow?
Unusual color or amount of exhaust when cold (and when hot)
Bad transmission clunks or apparent slipping in forward or reverse
Can it reach full RPM in neutral and in gear
Unusual vibration (could be just a fouled prop)
Smoke at full RPM in gear?
Does it overheat in 10 minutes at full RPM in gear?

If both engines pass both tests, I'd go for the younger since you will probably decide to do a rebuild at around 5000 hours.

rtshinn · Aug 11, 2014

Oil Analysis analyzes the condition of the oil. Wear Particle Analysis tells you what is in the oil. Based on the size, shape, composition and concentration of the particles in the oil, you can tell what is wearing out. The more you know about the machinery that the oil came from, the more you can tell what is going on. For example, grit that gets in oil can cause shavings that look like microscopic lathe tailings. This may indicate wear on a sleeve bearing. The oil itself can be analyzed for elements contained in the oil using a RDE (Rotating Disk Electrode). Yes, both Wear Particle Analysis and Used Oil Analysis are better when multiple samples are trended over time, but a one-time analysis can tell you a lot.

jibes138 · Aug 12, 2014

Figure a car engine at 60 mph in 4000 hours will go 240,000 miles. Probably due for some tear down and rebuilding at that point just to have confidence in reliability.