The only thing I've ever sailed is a Hobie Cat, now we've decided to try out sailing something that goes a little slower, and that we can take our grandkids out on. We don't really know anything about sailing, or whether or not we'll even like it. We want to start small (and cheap), as will be primarily day sailing on a large lake. We're looking at 22' MacGregor & 22' Catalina. Both have swing keels (we want something trailerable). We've also looked at a 26' MacGregor S. We'd appreciate comments on good/bad sailing characteristics of these boats, anything to watch out for (do they have wood inside the fiberglass that could be rotten? - couldn't seem to figure out where the wood would be in the MacGregor), and any tips on purchasing the right sailboat for first timers. Thanks in advance.
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Catalina or maybe O'Day?
I've never owned a Mac, but I had a friend who had a Mac Venture 22. It was so chintzy -- just completely flimsy. And I once had an O'Day 23, and came across a Mac 26X out on the lake. The little ODay literally sailed circles around that Mac. I wouldn't have one. I would probably recommend the Catalina -- the 22s are plentiful and have a pretty good rep. Make sure the swing keel is in good working condition -- that's a big issue with them. I would also add that you might look into an O'Day 23 from the 77-81 vintage. They were much bigger and better finished inside that the Cat or Mac, and had a shoal draft with a swing keel (2'3 draft board up, 5'1 board down!). I always loved that boat, and it always sailed well. Catch was that it had a shoal keel, so trailering wouldn't be as easy or the Mac or Cat 22. You'd have to have a special trailer, which would drive up your cost. Also have a good look at the engine, a nice four-stroke may be the deciding factor between those two boats. Personally I'd lean towards the Cat, I remember the Mac 22 being really claustrophobic inside, and the Catalina looks more like a traditional sailboat. Something about having side decks and actual cabintop made going forward much more safe feeling than the Mac, which was all deck. Either way, get something you can afford. Buy something that you won't feel guilty about if you're not using it every weekend. May want to look at www.boattraderonline.com to see what's out there. And enjoy!!! -Mark
I've never owned a Mac, but I had a friend who had a Mac Venture 22. It was so chintzy -- just completely flimsy. And I once had an O'Day 23, and came across a Mac 26X out on the lake. The little ODay literally sailed circles around that Mac. I wouldn't have one. I would probably recommend the Catalina -- the 22s are plentiful and have a pretty good rep. Make sure the swing keel is in good working condition -- that's a big issue with them. I would also add that you might look into an O'Day 23 from the 77-81 vintage. They were much bigger and better finished inside that the Cat or Mac, and had a shoal draft with a swing keel (2'3 draft board up, 5'1 board down!). I always loved that boat, and it always sailed well. Catch was that it had a shoal keel, so trailering wouldn't be as easy or the Mac or Cat 22. You'd have to have a special trailer, which would drive up your cost. Also have a good look at the engine, a nice four-stroke may be the deciding factor between those two boats. Personally I'd lean towards the Cat, I remember the Mac 22 being really claustrophobic inside, and the Catalina looks more like a traditional sailboat. Something about having side decks and actual cabintop made going forward much more safe feeling than the Mac, which was all deck. Either way, get something you can afford. Buy something that you won't feel guilty about if you're not using it every weekend. May want to look at www.boattraderonline.com to see what's out there. And enjoy!!! -Mark
Mac or Cat
No contest...the Cat 22 is the boat for your needs as you describe them. I have owned 4 "pocket" cruiser type sail boats. My first one was a Mac-Venture 22. Nice boat for a first-timer, but I only owned it because someone gave it to me. Good boat to learn on, but the Catalina 22 is the real deal. Bettre made, nicer design, and sollid network of other owners to have for a network of ideas and comments. Resale value of a Cat 22 is far more worthy of your investment...there are a lot of Mac's on the market (newer ones) that seem to not be fast sellers...even at low prices. Our Cat 22 is easy to sail, performs well in all types of wind conditions, and is layed out well. (we own a 1999 Cat 22 mk II). Great boat to trailer here and there and is comfortable for a daily sail or an overnight sleep aboard.
No contest...the Cat 22 is the boat for your needs as you describe them. I have owned 4 "pocket" cruiser type sail boats. My first one was a Mac-Venture 22. Nice boat for a first-timer, but I only owned it because someone gave it to me. Good boat to learn on, but the Catalina 22 is the real deal. Bettre made, nicer design, and sollid network of other owners to have for a network of ideas and comments. Resale value of a Cat 22 is far more worthy of your investment...there are a lot of Mac's on the market (newer ones) that seem to not be fast sellers...even at low prices. Our Cat 22 is easy to sail, performs well in all types of wind conditions, and is layed out well. (we own a 1999 Cat 22 mk II). Great boat to trailer here and there and is comfortable for a daily sail or an overnight sleep aboard.
Macs are great
I have a 1985 Mac 25 that I purchased may 2003 and it is my first sailboat. I love it. It is easy to trailer, it's light (2200 lbs) and very easy to launch and retrieve. As for sailing...The second time out I went alone and had no problems, I have been all over the great lakes with it with no problems. The boat handles great even in hard weather. The cabin though not big is useful and we are doing some upgrades to make it more comfortable on long weekends. I may buy a bigger boat but I will always keep this one for traveling. I for one think the mac 25 is a great starter boat that you wont out grow soon and wish you had something bigger. oh yea...she may not move like you cat but she will get along very well in the water. good luck!
I have a 1985 Mac 25 that I purchased may 2003 and it is my first sailboat. I love it. It is easy to trailer, it's light (2200 lbs) and very easy to launch and retrieve. As for sailing...The second time out I went alone and had no problems, I have been all over the great lakes with it with no problems. The boat handles great even in hard weather. The cabin though not big is useful and we are doing some upgrades to make it more comfortable on long weekends. I may buy a bigger boat but I will always keep this one for traveling. I for one think the mac 25 is a great starter boat that you wont out grow soon and wish you had something bigger. oh yea...she may not move like you cat but she will get along very well in the water. good luck!
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Back with a Mac
After many years away from sailing I got my feet wet again with a Mac 26S. I taught my wife sailing in that same Mac and now we are the proud owners of a H30. The Mac is still around but unfourtunatly we will have to sell it eventualy. We could have not asked for a better boat to get back into sailing and learning for the first time. I would recommend a Mac any day. They have sured gotten their rash of bad reputation in some forums, but I would have not changed anything I have done in the Mac. With a little imagination and some work you can make all sorts of mods in it and make it look great. Try one out!!!!
After many years away from sailing I got my feet wet again with a Mac 26S. I taught my wife sailing in that same Mac and now we are the proud owners of a H30. The Mac is still around but unfourtunatly we will have to sell it eventualy. We could have not asked for a better boat to get back into sailing and learning for the first time. I would recommend a Mac any day. They have sured gotten their rash of bad reputation in some forums, but I would have not changed anything I have done in the Mac. With a little imagination and some work you can make all sorts of mods in it and make it look great. Try one out!!!!
Good reading
A great book, which may answer all your questions is "Sailing Big on a Small Sailboat" by Jerry Cardwell. He names many good small sailboats based on size and ease of trailering. He specifically addresses and compares the Catalina 22, MacGregor 26, and Hunter 23 for standard equipment and optional equipment. He makes recommendations and prices equipment you may want to add on. Great read. Best advice anyone can give you is read, read, read. Then go along as crew on each boat. Every sailor enjoys showing off their baby. See what others are sailing on your lake, and ask if they are happy, and why; what would they do differently. Everyone has some regrets with their boat, make sure their regret is something you would be able to live with. If not, scratch the boat from your list. Check to see if you can rent each boat for a weekend and take your maximum passengers with you for a day. Ok to be stepped on? Need to move up? You are already on a great information site. Check the owner reviews area. Check photos. Get to know what you are looking for before you see it. Number one... don't get hungup on loving a boat and turn a blind eye. Could be very expensive. Hope his helps. Good luck! Steve
A great book, which may answer all your questions is "Sailing Big on a Small Sailboat" by Jerry Cardwell. He names many good small sailboats based on size and ease of trailering. He specifically addresses and compares the Catalina 22, MacGregor 26, and Hunter 23 for standard equipment and optional equipment. He makes recommendations and prices equipment you may want to add on. Great read. Best advice anyone can give you is read, read, read. Then go along as crew on each boat. Every sailor enjoys showing off their baby. See what others are sailing on your lake, and ask if they are happy, and why; what would they do differently. Everyone has some regrets with their boat, make sure their regret is something you would be able to live with. If not, scratch the boat from your list. Check to see if you can rent each boat for a weekend and take your maximum passengers with you for a day. Ok to be stepped on? Need to move up? You are already on a great information site. Check the owner reviews area. Check photos. Get to know what you are looking for before you see it. Number one... don't get hungup on loving a boat and turn a blind eye. Could be very expensive. Hope his helps. Good luck! Steve
I started on catamarans......
H-16, H-18 finally Nacra 5.8 with a chute. We went out on a mono and loved it. Found a Mac26d for sale, the owner mailed me the keys and we used it for a weekend. We needed a boat we could keep on the trailer, launch easily, tow with a mid size suv. We achieved these with our Mac and a boat that sails great to boot. In the three years we sailed her, I've only had to spend money on the engine. (for a new impeller for the water pump). She is easy to maintain and sail. Once you get used to the four times slower. ;-) I think there is wood sandwiched between the deck and cabin top. We will need new sails soon. I glad we bought her. We sail mostly rivers, but coastal cruising is in the works when the weather is nice. Try to get a ride on all your choices.
H-16, H-18 finally Nacra 5.8 with a chute. We went out on a mono and loved it. Found a Mac26d for sale, the owner mailed me the keys and we used it for a weekend. We needed a boat we could keep on the trailer, launch easily, tow with a mid size suv. We achieved these with our Mac and a boat that sails great to boot. In the three years we sailed her, I've only had to spend money on the engine. (for a new impeller for the water pump). She is easy to maintain and sail. Once you get used to the four times slower. ;-) I think there is wood sandwiched between the deck and cabin top. We will need new sails soon. I glad we bought her. We sail mostly rivers, but coastal cruising is in the works when the weather is nice. Try to get a ride on all your choices.
MacGregor versus Catalina
YOu want the MacGregor 26 with the swing centerborad but NOT the macGregor 26x which simply does not sail well. The 26 was made from about 1989-1995 and only has minimal interior wood. It is much faster than a Cat 22. The MacGregor 22 you mention is a much older boat. I have owned a macgregor 26, it is s snap to put on the trailer and to get off the trailer, great place for the motor, and is a good sailor
YOu want the MacGregor 26 with the swing centerborad but NOT the macGregor 26x which simply does not sail well. The 26 was made from about 1989-1995 and only has minimal interior wood. It is much faster than a Cat 22. The MacGregor 22 you mention is a much older boat. I have owned a macgregor 26, it is s snap to put on the trailer and to get off the trailer, great place for the motor, and is a good sailor
Catalina makes a better boat
Bought a new Venture 25 in 1979 and kept it for 4 years. Was a fun, simple, easy to launch boat, but not very well made or well equipped. Bought a used Catalina 30 in 1983 and kept it for 10 years (great boat, well made, holds up well). My nephew has a 1979 Catalina 30 in California, that still is in good shape. Never owned a Catalina 22 or 25, but I would suspect they are better boats than a MacGregor (just look at the same age boats in the marina). I would go for the Catalina every time. Got back into sailing 4 years ago and bought a S2 7.3 (24 ft). Great boat, well equipped, but not easily trailerable (S2 is also no longer in business). Has a shoal draft fixed keel (2 ft 10 in draft) and would requuire a special trailer (I keep it in the water).
Bought a new Venture 25 in 1979 and kept it for 4 years. Was a fun, simple, easy to launch boat, but not very well made or well equipped. Bought a used Catalina 30 in 1983 and kept it for 10 years (great boat, well made, holds up well). My nephew has a 1979 Catalina 30 in California, that still is in good shape. Never owned a Catalina 22 or 25, but I would suspect they are better boats than a MacGregor (just look at the same age boats in the marina). I would go for the Catalina every time. Got back into sailing 4 years ago and bought a S2 7.3 (24 ft). Great boat, well equipped, but not easily trailerable (S2 is also no longer in business). Has a shoal draft fixed keel (2 ft 10 in draft) and would requuire a special trailer (I keep it in the water).
??????
Ive owned both, the Catalina is a much better boat. but boats are like cars, is the difference in quality worth the difference in $$$$. the old Mac I had I bought for $1500 including 6hp Johnson. I had many years of fun with the boat. simply, if you can find a Mac and a Cat equipped the same for the same price get the Cat, otherwise try to find the most boat for the money!
Ive owned both, the Catalina is a much better boat. but boats are like cars, is the difference in quality worth the difference in $$$$. the old Mac I had I bought for $1500 including 6hp Johnson. I had many years of fun with the boat. simply, if you can find a Mac and a Cat equipped the same for the same price get the Cat, otherwise try to find the most boat for the money!
Go for more room on the Mac 26s
Go for the Mac 26s, ours is a 92, and a well maintained Mac is not hard to find or hard on the pocketbook. Even the maintainance costs are minimal, and there is so many things you can add to a Mac (different sails, electronics, creature comforts). One of, if not the easiest boat to trailer and launch/retrieve for it's size. It also has great "sailability" in all conditions. Cruise pleasantly or race around heeled over hard, the Mac will do this. When it all is added up, the interior being larger, will be your biggest asset. And this is important with kids or extra passengers. Small boats get crowded quickly. There is also more sleeping room in the Mac for those lazy summer naps that need to be taken. With the swing keel and kick up rudder, you can beach it for an on land picnic too.
Go for the Mac 26s, ours is a 92, and a well maintained Mac is not hard to find or hard on the pocketbook. Even the maintainance costs are minimal, and there is so many things you can add to a Mac (different sails, electronics, creature comforts). One of, if not the easiest boat to trailer and launch/retrieve for it's size. It also has great "sailability" in all conditions. Cruise pleasantly or race around heeled over hard, the Mac will do this. When it all is added up, the interior being larger, will be your biggest asset. And this is important with kids or extra passengers. Small boats get crowded quickly. There is also more sleeping room in the Mac for those lazy summer naps that need to be taken. With the swing keel and kick up rudder, you can beach it for an on land picnic too.
mac26 v-c22
it is not fair to compare the mac26 to the C22, if you are moving into the 25-26 league look at the C25 v- mac26 and Catalina is still the best boat! in my humble opinion!
it is not fair to compare the mac26 to the C22, if you are moving into the 25-26 league look at the C25 v- mac26 and Catalina is still the best boat! in my humble opinion!
Stick w/ the Catalina
Build quality on the Catalina is superior. I have nothing against Macgregor's, but they are not built as well. They are fine for small lake sailing, or in calmer conditions. For large lakes and bay sailing I'd stick with the Catalina.
Build quality on the Catalina is superior. I have nothing against Macgregor's, but they are not built as well. They are fine for small lake sailing, or in calmer conditions. For large lakes and bay sailing I'd stick with the Catalina.
Go for more room on the Mac 26s
Grandkids, their parents, you and your wife. A small boat can get very crowded. Kids can get bored and cranky. Don't let it become a struggle to have everyone enjoy the day. Go Bigger!!! Quality of a used boat, no matter what it's name, depends on how it's been cared for over the years. Both Cat and Mac make/made a good boat. A good owner makes the difference. Rent a 22 for a day with everyone, then do the same with a 26. Ask the family how they feel.
Grandkids, their parents, you and your wife. A small boat can get very crowded. Kids can get bored and cranky. Don't let it become a struggle to have everyone enjoy the day. Go Bigger!!! Quality of a used boat, no matter what it's name, depends on how it's been cared for over the years. Both Cat and Mac make/made a good boat. A good owner makes the difference. Rent a 22 for a day with everyone, then do the same with a 26. Ask the family how they feel.
73men, I agree, but the original poster is sailing
in Vancouver. Not on an inland lake. Huge difference in sailing conditions. On most inland lakes I might agree, but if this guy is going anywhere near the ocean or near the "bigger" lakes (which get just as rough), then I would want the more solid boat, with beefier rigging and hull, etc. It all depends on what he plans to do. But all things being equal, bigger is better. But to be fair, I would look at the Cat 25 if he was looking at a Mac 26
in Vancouver. Not on an inland lake. Huge difference in sailing conditions. On most inland lakes I might agree, but if this guy is going anywhere near the ocean or near the "bigger" lakes (which get just as rough), then I would want the more solid boat, with beefier rigging and hull, etc. It all depends on what he plans to do. But all things being equal, bigger is better. But to be fair, I would look at the Cat 25 if he was looking at a Mac 26
Both about the same
Which boat is in better shape? Look for rotted deck. They feel spongy when you walk on them. Look at the conditions of the sails. Look at the equipment they are offering. Catalina does built a good boat, but there are lots of things that you have to look at!
Which boat is in better shape? Look for rotted deck. They feel spongy when you walk on them. Look at the conditions of the sails. Look at the equipment they are offering. Catalina does built a good boat, but there are lots of things that you have to look at!
The Mac is faster
I owned a Helsen 22 which is very simular to the catalina 22 at least weight and hull shape. The Mac was a lot faster and easier to trailer. The Catalina 22 is a lot prettier boat!!! But the Mac has a good sized berth in the rear that you can use. With the Cat you have to drop the dinnette. The Mac 26 has a daggerboard which is a lot easier to raise and lower and doesn't have the cable humm. But it is more fragile in a grounding. IMHO if I was going to daysail and keep the boat at a marina I'd get the Catalina 22 with a fixed keel. If I was going to trailer and overnight/weekend I'd go with the Mac 26.
I owned a Helsen 22 which is very simular to the catalina 22 at least weight and hull shape. The Mac was a lot faster and easier to trailer. The Catalina 22 is a lot prettier boat!!! But the Mac has a good sized berth in the rear that you can use. With the Cat you have to drop the dinnette. The Mac 26 has a daggerboard which is a lot easier to raise and lower and doesn't have the cable humm. But it is more fragile in a grounding. IMHO if I was going to daysail and keep the boat at a marina I'd get the Catalina 22 with a fixed keel. If I was going to trailer and overnight/weekend I'd go with the Mac 26.
why???
why does everyone insist on comparing the C22 to the Mac26??? Catalina makes the C25, which in my humble opinion is a hell alot more boat than a Mac26. I have owned both a V24 and a C25 and there "aint" no doubt any serious sailor would suggest a Mac over a Catalina of comparable sizes. of course that is, unless you want to be able to water ski behind your sailboat.(remember I did say serious sailor)
why does everyone insist on comparing the C22 to the Mac26??? Catalina makes the C25, which in my humble opinion is a hell alot more boat than a Mac26. I have owned both a V24 and a C25 and there "aint" no doubt any serious sailor would suggest a Mac over a Catalina of comparable sizes. of course that is, unless you want to be able to water ski behind your sailboat.(remember I did say serious sailor)
A Mac26 and a Catalina 22 cost about the same
and weigh about the same for towing. The Cat 22 is actually a little heavier to tow. There was a book "Cruising Big on a Small Budget" that recommended the cat 22,hunter 23 or mac 26 as ideal small cruisers. I read the book then bought a Mac. In light winds the Mac is fast!!!! It loses it's advantage when the winds go above about 12-15 kts. The water ballast isn't as good as lead but I could tow the Mac behind a Chevey S-10 4.3L "no Problem" of course I had surge brakes on the trailer. Without brakes emergency stopping would be interesting!!!
and weigh about the same for towing. The Cat 22 is actually a little heavier to tow. There was a book "Cruising Big on a Small Budget" that recommended the cat 22,hunter 23 or mac 26 as ideal small cruisers. I read the book then bought a Mac. In light winds the Mac is fast!!!! It loses it's advantage when the winds go above about 12-15 kts. The water ballast isn't as good as lead but I could tow the Mac behind a Chevey S-10 4.3L "no Problem" of course I had surge brakes on the trailer. Without brakes emergency stopping would be interesting!!!
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