Hello, I currently have a Catalina 22 which I am very happy with. The boat is great for day sailing. However, I would like to start doing some overnight trips, and perhaps some week long trips. There are five of us in my family, me, my wife, and three kids. I have been looking at 30, 31, 32, and 34' boats. To be honest, there does not seem to be that much difference between the 30, 310, 320, and 34 models. A few questions: When you are cruising with your family, where do you sleep, in the V birth or the aft cabin? The 30 and 310 don't have a door for the aft bed. The 320 and 34 do. Are there any significant differences between the 30, the 310, and 320? So far, it seems that the 320 comes with Raymarine ST60 package, while the smaller boats do not. What about the head / shower combination, I can't get good info on that. Finally, does anyone know the tankage of the various models? Last question / comment. It seems like the boats really hold their value! I can buy a brand new 320, very well equipped, for $110K. I see 3 year old boats being advertised for the same price!! There does not seem to be a real reason to buy used. Again, am I missing something? Thanks, Barry
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Les Murray
Don't forget the Cat 36
If you are looking at 34s, then take the next step and look at a 36 as well. You will find they have a very nice and roomy layout for your family. I have a family of 6 and we use all the berths available. My wife and I take the v berth and the kids are split between the salon and the aft cabin. I think what you are seeing in terms of new vs. used is that Catalinas hold their original values very well. Probably the biggest reason to get used vs. new is to get one that already has had all the wanted "goodies" installed (radar, chartplotter, autopilot, etc) and one that can be had right now. Buying new, you will have to pay for and install all the options you want, plus wait for the boat to be built and commissioned (with all its headaches). I think Catalinas are very good at holding their value compared to a lot of other boats. As far as which one, I would recommend spending some time aboard each of them, including going on a sail, and see which one feels best for you. There are plenty of owners in your area who probably wouldn't mind giving you a tour. Check with LISCA to see if anyone can help you out further. Also, be sure to check out the various owner association pages for each model. They will have the technical details you are asking about plus most have owner feedback or message boards to get further insight on how each of the models are. Good luck with your search. Les Murray s/v Ceilidh '86 C-36 #560
If you are looking at 34s, then take the next step and look at a 36 as well. You will find they have a very nice and roomy layout for your family. I have a family of 6 and we use all the berths available. My wife and I take the v berth and the kids are split between the salon and the aft cabin. I think what you are seeing in terms of new vs. used is that Catalinas hold their original values very well. Probably the biggest reason to get used vs. new is to get one that already has had all the wanted "goodies" installed (radar, chartplotter, autopilot, etc) and one that can be had right now. Buying new, you will have to pay for and install all the options you want, plus wait for the boat to be built and commissioned (with all its headaches). I think Catalinas are very good at holding their value compared to a lot of other boats. As far as which one, I would recommend spending some time aboard each of them, including going on a sail, and see which one feels best for you. There are plenty of owners in your area who probably wouldn't mind giving you a tour. Check with LISCA to see if anyone can help you out further. Also, be sure to check out the various owner association pages for each model. They will have the technical details you are asking about plus most have owner feedback or message boards to get further insight on how each of the models are. Good luck with your search. Les Murray s/v Ceilidh '86 C-36 #560
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RonD
C320
I have a 2001 model C320 (#831) built at the end of 2000. It offered more flexible space (to my needs) than the C310. I don't think the C310 would work as well for a family of 5. I'm 6'2" and can sleep stretched out in the V-berth, the aft cabin, and on the settees in the main cabin. The aft cabin is approximately queen-sized, so you & the wife can have room & privacy. The forward V-berth can sleep two adults -- if you have 'tween or teen daughters, they might use it for some privacy. The main cabin can sleep 2-3 adults if you lower the table & use the cushion over it. The C320 is a great coastal cruising boat for 3-4 adults. A family of 5 is probably OK if all get along really well. Plan to make lots of marina stops where you can get ashore for supplies, showers, and pumpouts. If you plan on anything more than a week, good luck! The real hangup is not how many berths, but how much storage is available once you fill them. You'll have bedding & personal gear for a family of 5 to cope with. Plus, food & other supplies needed on a cruise. With a family of 5, the 20 gal holding tank will need pumping often. I'm not sure how long the 10lb LPG bottle will last if you cook a lot on-board, either. The head has a "shower" capability, but it requires a total wipe-down each time -- better to wash on-deck using the spray head by the transom or a bucket. I prefer to use a marina shower. As much as I'd love the C320 to hold the original sale price for years, they really don't. A 3-year old C320 probably goes for a mid-$80K price these days. Depends upon the condition, location, and equipment "extras". My fully equipped (see below), delivered, commissioned new boat price three years ago was $106K. The integrated Raymarine ST60 package works very well. Mine has the speed, depth, & wind, plus I added a multi-function display at the nav station & the autopilot and a GPS/Radar/Chartplotter at the helm. Also have the usual VHF radio -- though the RAM feature at the helm would be nice, I just hang my handheld VHF there as a handy close-range spare. I added the 3-blade prop for better efficiency while cruising; the drag isn't really noticable to any but avid racers. Also have the shoal keel (lots of rocks up here in NE.) and the 130% Genoa (a 150 is better in light air but I felt the 130 more versatile when things get up over 20-25 knots.) Here in NE the dodger is nice, but I felt a bimini was overkill. The closed-cell cockpit cushions are great too. Finally, I included the Edson teak fold-down cockpit table in the package. Bottom line -- before taking this plunge, round up the family and stuff them for a week into a charter boat or two in the 32 ft size/space range. Get everyone to keep a list of things they liked/disliked on that boat. Try it again on a bigger (e.g., 36 ft) boat and see if things are better. Talk to other families of similar structure to hear what they say. Good luck! --RonD
I have a 2001 model C320 (#831) built at the end of 2000. It offered more flexible space (to my needs) than the C310. I don't think the C310 would work as well for a family of 5. I'm 6'2" and can sleep stretched out in the V-berth, the aft cabin, and on the settees in the main cabin. The aft cabin is approximately queen-sized, so you & the wife can have room & privacy. The forward V-berth can sleep two adults -- if you have 'tween or teen daughters, they might use it for some privacy. The main cabin can sleep 2-3 adults if you lower the table & use the cushion over it. The C320 is a great coastal cruising boat for 3-4 adults. A family of 5 is probably OK if all get along really well. Plan to make lots of marina stops where you can get ashore for supplies, showers, and pumpouts. If you plan on anything more than a week, good luck! The real hangup is not how many berths, but how much storage is available once you fill them. You'll have bedding & personal gear for a family of 5 to cope with. Plus, food & other supplies needed on a cruise. With a family of 5, the 20 gal holding tank will need pumping often. I'm not sure how long the 10lb LPG bottle will last if you cook a lot on-board, either. The head has a "shower" capability, but it requires a total wipe-down each time -- better to wash on-deck using the spray head by the transom or a bucket. I prefer to use a marina shower. As much as I'd love the C320 to hold the original sale price for years, they really don't. A 3-year old C320 probably goes for a mid-$80K price these days. Depends upon the condition, location, and equipment "extras". My fully equipped (see below), delivered, commissioned new boat price three years ago was $106K. The integrated Raymarine ST60 package works very well. Mine has the speed, depth, & wind, plus I added a multi-function display at the nav station & the autopilot and a GPS/Radar/Chartplotter at the helm. Also have the usual VHF radio -- though the RAM feature at the helm would be nice, I just hang my handheld VHF there as a handy close-range spare. I added the 3-blade prop for better efficiency while cruising; the drag isn't really noticable to any but avid racers. Also have the shoal keel (lots of rocks up here in NE.) and the 130% Genoa (a 150 is better in light air but I felt the 130 more versatile when things get up over 20-25 knots.) Here in NE the dodger is nice, but I felt a bimini was overkill. The closed-cell cockpit cushions are great too. Finally, I included the Edson teak fold-down cockpit table in the package. Bottom line -- before taking this plunge, round up the family and stuff them for a week into a charter boat or two in the 32 ft size/space range. Get everyone to keep a list of things they liked/disliked on that boat. Try it again on a bigger (e.g., 36 ft) boat and see if things are better. Talk to other families of similar structure to hear what they say. Good luck! --RonD
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Pete Peterson
Differences
Barry, you're right about the seeming lack of difference between the various models you mentioned. When I compared the 320 and 34, I found that the 34 was only larger by 2-4 inches in the cockpit, cabins and salon. I thought the $10,00 difference in price was better spent on options, so I went with the 320. BTW, we also came from a 22. They did not have the 310 when we bought in 2000, but the big difference between it and the 320 seems to be layout. We sleep in the aft cabin, but I wouldn't worry about the lack of a door there since the main cabin is forward on the 310. The shower seems to be bigger on the 310. Just see which one fits your family better. As for new or used, I think the used prices are actually a lot lower than you have seen, perhaps 15% lower than new after 1-2 years. If it were not for the in-mast furling system that we really wanted, we would have looked seriously at used boats. A nearly new boat is probably comfortably broken in, without anything actually being broken.
Barry, you're right about the seeming lack of difference between the various models you mentioned. When I compared the 320 and 34, I found that the 34 was only larger by 2-4 inches in the cockpit, cabins and salon. I thought the $10,00 difference in price was better spent on options, so I went with the 320. BTW, we also came from a 22. They did not have the 310 when we bought in 2000, but the big difference between it and the 320 seems to be layout. We sleep in the aft cabin, but I wouldn't worry about the lack of a door there since the main cabin is forward on the 310. The shower seems to be bigger on the 310. Just see which one fits your family better. As for new or used, I think the used prices are actually a lot lower than you have seen, perhaps 15% lower than new after 1-2 years. If it were not for the in-mast furling system that we really wanted, we would have looked seriously at used boats. A nearly new boat is probably comfortably broken in, without anything actually being broken.
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Jim Wolfgram
Our 320 thoughts.
My wife and recently upgraded to a 320 from an Ericson 29. Here are our impressions and thoughts. We love the aft cabin, we're 6'1 and 5'11 and can both sleep in the aft cabin comfortably and privately. The V berth forward cabin has been terrific for our 6 year old and his guests. We're very pleased with the galley set up and the refrigeration is a real crowd pleaser. I've used the shower and find it to be ok. The holding tank seems a bit small to me, I wish it were bigger. And the Yanmar is loud, I've got an insulation project planned to quite it down. On the SF bay and Norcal coast I find it to be a relatively fast, secure easy handling boat. We have the 110 jib to handle the high winds in our area.
My wife and recently upgraded to a 320 from an Ericson 29. Here are our impressions and thoughts. We love the aft cabin, we're 6'1 and 5'11 and can both sleep in the aft cabin comfortably and privately. The V berth forward cabin has been terrific for our 6 year old and his guests. We're very pleased with the galley set up and the refrigeration is a real crowd pleaser. I've used the shower and find it to be ok. The holding tank seems a bit small to me, I wish it were bigger. And the Yanmar is loud, I've got an insulation project planned to quite it down. On the SF bay and Norcal coast I find it to be a relatively fast, secure easy handling boat. We have the 110 jib to handle the high winds in our area.
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jeff
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Barry Lenoble
used C 36's
Hello, From looking on this site, the late 80's C36's are listed at 60-70K. On Yachtworld, they are listed at 70-90K. On the c36 owner's site, they are also listed around 70K. Since a new one is 120-130, I can't believe that 10-15 year old boats are still worth that much! Then you need to add survey costs, delivery costs, etc. Barry
Hello, From looking on this site, the late 80's C36's are listed at 60-70K. On Yachtworld, they are listed at 70-90K. On the c36 owner's site, they are also listed around 70K. Since a new one is 120-130, I can't believe that 10-15 year old boats are still worth that much! Then you need to add survey costs, delivery costs, etc. Barry
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Tom S.
Barry, the C36 is a very nice boat. Its a classic
The reason they are at that price also has a lot to do with the condition of the boat and what upgrades have been done (A/C, electronics, etc). Most C36 owners rave and love their boats and because of that pride of ownership, take very good care of their boats....that can account for the solid, stable and relatively flat prices. But I look at that as a *very* good thing! You always know that if you take care of the boat, it will be worth close to what you paid for it !......How many boats can you say that about? I know you are looking at all different sized boats, but once you get on a C36 and notice the layout and the feel, you'll know why its so popular. The Saloon is the best of the bunch. One ex-C42 owner now has a C36 and he swears that the saloon of the C36 is bigger. Layouts are similar to some of the boats listed, but its got a better Saloon and much more storage space. If anything the biggest downside is a relatively small holding tank, but that can be managed. 2200 C36 owners have.
The reason they are at that price also has a lot to do with the condition of the boat and what upgrades have been done (A/C, electronics, etc). Most C36 owners rave and love their boats and because of that pride of ownership, take very good care of their boats....that can account for the solid, stable and relatively flat prices. But I look at that as a *very* good thing! You always know that if you take care of the boat, it will be worth close to what you paid for it !......How many boats can you say that about? I know you are looking at all different sized boats, but once you get on a C36 and notice the layout and the feel, you'll know why its so popular. The Saloon is the best of the bunch. One ex-C42 owner now has a C36 and he swears that the saloon of the C36 is bigger. Layouts are similar to some of the boats listed, but its got a better Saloon and much more storage space. If anything the biggest downside is a relatively small holding tank, but that can be managed. 2200 C36 owners have.
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Chris Burti
320 views
I purchased a well equipped , virtually new, 2001 320 this year for well under the $100k mark. The admiral pulls strings but not lines and I can easily single hand the 320. We sail mostly as a couple and only occasionally with a crowd. The 320 is a perfect fit for that style of cruising. We went down to scrub her yesterday evening in preparation for this weekend (lots of bugs still)and we both commented on being glad we didn't get a 36, heheheh. Many experienced Admirals seem to prefer the galley layout on the 320 as well.
I purchased a well equipped , virtually new, 2001 320 this year for well under the $100k mark. The admiral pulls strings but not lines and I can easily single hand the 320. We sail mostly as a couple and only occasionally with a crowd. The 320 is a perfect fit for that style of cruising. We went down to scrub her yesterday evening in preparation for this weekend (lots of bugs still)and we both commented on being glad we didn't get a 36, heheheh. Many experienced Admirals seem to prefer the galley layout on the 320 as well.
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Bill Doyle - S/V Calico Dragon
Another C320 Vote
I can't relate directly to your question as it usually is just my wife and I, well OK Reba our calico too. However, we have had couples with us on several occassions for trips to Newport or elswhere and they slept well in the V berth although one couple did refer to it as the Gemani space capsule. Obviously your family needs are different than yours but in general I'd highly recommend the C320. What we liked about the aft cabin, besides the approcimately queen size berth, is what we call "face space". We found that the C320 has more space between you face and the underside of the starboard cockpit seat when you're sitting up in the aft berth. The C34 seemed closer and more clostaphobic to us. We also would like more holding tank capacity but it is adequate. The C320 handles well and has plenty of cockpit room, especially with the stern seats. The Catalina is a well built, substantial boat that will provide you with confidence in challenging conditions. As a measure of our satisfaction during our annual visits to the Newport boat show we have concluded for the past 3 years that if we were boatless and making a decision we'd still pick the C320 over any other choice until at least the C380. Of course a Saber 402 would be nice but that's another story. Good luck with whatever you decise and happy sailing. Bill
I can't relate directly to your question as it usually is just my wife and I, well OK Reba our calico too. However, we have had couples with us on several occassions for trips to Newport or elswhere and they slept well in the V berth although one couple did refer to it as the Gemani space capsule. Obviously your family needs are different than yours but in general I'd highly recommend the C320. What we liked about the aft cabin, besides the approcimately queen size berth, is what we call "face space". We found that the C320 has more space between you face and the underside of the starboard cockpit seat when you're sitting up in the aft berth. The C34 seemed closer and more clostaphobic to us. We also would like more holding tank capacity but it is adequate. The C320 handles well and has plenty of cockpit room, especially with the stern seats. The Catalina is a well built, substantial boat that will provide you with confidence in challenging conditions. As a measure of our satisfaction during our annual visits to the Newport boat show we have concluded for the past 3 years that if we were boatless and making a decision we'd still pick the C320 over any other choice until at least the C380. Of course a Saber 402 would be nice but that's another story. Good luck with whatever you decise and happy sailing. Bill
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Scott
22 to a 30+
22 foot to a 32 + is a big step. I dont know if you have access to any of the boats you metioned, but you should try to get a sail on one of the Catalinas on your short list. This way you can feel the way the boat sails and reacts and determine what feature you most like about the boats. I made the same move last year and before I did I sailed several on my short list before making the purchase. It is a good move but expect thing to be different. I had an Oday 222 and "Moved Up". The fees associated with a larger boat dont end. Its always something. For example, the 22 foot could be hauled out by yourself and trailer, bottom painting takes more paint and more time on a 30+, stepping the mast and getting to the top of the mast is a lot more difficult, washing the boat after a sail requires a lot more time than on a 22 and so on and so on. But I highly recommend it! Just be ready! The larger boat has been so much better for my wife and I. She feels so much safer, and the larger boat is actually easier to sail. Living accomadations, just think you can and will actually go somewhere in the larger boat versus just a day sail. Thats one of the greatest part of the larger boat. If you consider the mid ninties vintage boats try to locate one from the Great Lakes area....Fresh Water...makes a big difference. I bought mine there and had it shipped. The process was great. And I beleive you save a couple of grand even with the shipping. Let us know how you make out. Good Luck
22 foot to a 32 + is a big step. I dont know if you have access to any of the boats you metioned, but you should try to get a sail on one of the Catalinas on your short list. This way you can feel the way the boat sails and reacts and determine what feature you most like about the boats. I made the same move last year and before I did I sailed several on my short list before making the purchase. It is a good move but expect thing to be different. I had an Oday 222 and "Moved Up". The fees associated with a larger boat dont end. Its always something. For example, the 22 foot could be hauled out by yourself and trailer, bottom painting takes more paint and more time on a 30+, stepping the mast and getting to the top of the mast is a lot more difficult, washing the boat after a sail requires a lot more time than on a 22 and so on and so on. But I highly recommend it! Just be ready! The larger boat has been so much better for my wife and I. She feels so much safer, and the larger boat is actually easier to sail. Living accomadations, just think you can and will actually go somewhere in the larger boat versus just a day sail. Thats one of the greatest part of the larger boat. If you consider the mid ninties vintage boats try to locate one from the Great Lakes area....Fresh Water...makes a big difference. I bought mine there and had it shipped. The process was great. And I beleive you save a couple of grand even with the shipping. Let us know how you make out. Good Luck
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