Hello, (Corrected for the correct Catalina link) Being that it's winter and I can't go sailing. And I would like to buy a larger boat, I ask the following question: For the same price (around $20K), which boat would you buy for day sailing, some 1-2 night weekend trips, and maybe a 1 week cruise? The sailing area is the Long Island Sound. Crew would be me and my wife. Others on the boat would be my three kids (girls 9 and 6, Son who will be 3 in the spring). Other family members will occasionally sail as well. The current candidates include: 1. 1983 Catalina 30 This one looks promising: http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1106728&units=Feet¤cy=USD&access=Public&listing_id=1925&url= 2. 1987 Oday 302 like this one: http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?currency=USD&units=Feet&checked_boats=1143997&slim=quick& 3. 1981 S2 9.2 A This one: http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?currency=USD&units=Feet&checked_boats=1008643&slim=quick& I have spoken to the S2 owner, and I have a good feeling that the boat really will be as presented. I have not looked at the others, so I don't know if they are nice, or junk like a few other Yachtworld boats I looked at that looked good in the ads but were junk when I went to see them. Or, do you have any other suggestions? Thanks, Barry
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pic#1 looks alot like pic#3 LOL
but, anyway buy the only 30 footer to make the Sail Boat Hall of Fame!
but, anyway buy the only 30 footer to make the Sail Boat Hall of Fame!
HMMMMMMM?
Having never sailed on the Oday but have looked at them in the boat yard and raced against a 272 which is the same design it is not a boat I would consider, (Sorry 302 owners) The keel just doesn't have a good shape and it would be pretty slow up wind. The Catalina 30's are great boats I race against a few with our Hunter 28.5 and one gives me allot of trouble the others we never see after the start of the race. They are some where way behind us. S2's are great boat's but they are no longer being made so customer service will not be ther and you will be on you own. Something people over look when looking at boats is ther PHRF number. Most of the time ther responce to this is " We are never going to race so what does it matter" Well' a few things you may decide to race and then you start looking at your boats number's and you do a OH NO, this boat is a lead sled. The other is face it we all like to see how fast we can sail our boat's and if were sailing with a group of friends who likes to be the last one ther. A few you should not pass by are the Hunter 28.5 and the Hunter 31 both good boat's. The 31 will be a little more money but the 28.5 is a very big 28 foot boat. Bigger than some of the other designs in the same class. Also look at the sail inventory. If you are looking at 2 of the same boat but one they are asking say $2K more for then the other but it has allot newer sail's then that would be the better boat. Check to see what new sail's cost also and way that against a boat with old sail's verses one with newer sail's. We are very happy with our 28.5 and if you can go with the deep draft on any of the boats. Cliff Ruckstuhl H 28.5 "Red Dog"
Having never sailed on the Oday but have looked at them in the boat yard and raced against a 272 which is the same design it is not a boat I would consider, (Sorry 302 owners) The keel just doesn't have a good shape and it would be pretty slow up wind. The Catalina 30's are great boats I race against a few with our Hunter 28.5 and one gives me allot of trouble the others we never see after the start of the race. They are some where way behind us. S2's are great boat's but they are no longer being made so customer service will not be ther and you will be on you own. Something people over look when looking at boats is ther PHRF number. Most of the time ther responce to this is " We are never going to race so what does it matter" Well' a few things you may decide to race and then you start looking at your boats number's and you do a OH NO, this boat is a lead sled. The other is face it we all like to see how fast we can sail our boat's and if were sailing with a group of friends who likes to be the last one ther. A few you should not pass by are the Hunter 28.5 and the Hunter 31 both good boat's. The 31 will be a little more money but the 28.5 is a very big 28 foot boat. Bigger than some of the other designs in the same class. Also look at the sail inventory. If you are looking at 2 of the same boat but one they are asking say $2K more for then the other but it has allot newer sail's then that would be the better boat. Check to see what new sail's cost also and way that against a boat with old sail's verses one with newer sail's. We are very happy with our 28.5 and if you can go with the deep draft on any of the boats. Cliff Ruckstuhl H 28.5 "Red Dog"
Do you have the Pictures of the Catalina 30?
Wrong picture of the Catalina, the S2 got posted twice. Catalina 30's are fantastic boats (I used to own one) and they are great for the use that you want to put it to. Catalina is still in business, their customer service department is top notch and the owners are very loyal. Hard to go wrong unless the boat was not cared for. The pictures of the S2 are remarkable for a boat of that age. The present owner obviously did a good job of maintaining it. S2 is no longer in business, but that is not too much of a drawback. All of the major parts were bought from good suppliers, S2 built the hull and added everything else. I own a 24 foot S2 now and it is a great boat. Quality probably a little better than Catalina for the same age. Never sailed a 30 foot S2, so can't compare it to a Catalina 30, but I suspect it is very similar in sailing characteristics. The S2 has a Yanmar diesel, which is better than the Universal which the Catalina probably has. I would look at both the Catalina and the S2 and take them both out for a sail before deciding.
Wrong picture of the Catalina, the S2 got posted twice. Catalina 30's are fantastic boats (I used to own one) and they are great for the use that you want to put it to. Catalina is still in business, their customer service department is top notch and the owners are very loyal. Hard to go wrong unless the boat was not cared for. The pictures of the S2 are remarkable for a boat of that age. The present owner obviously did a good job of maintaining it. S2 is no longer in business, but that is not too much of a drawback. All of the major parts were bought from good suppliers, S2 built the hull and added everything else. I own a 24 foot S2 now and it is a great boat. Quality probably a little better than Catalina for the same age. Never sailed a 30 foot S2, so can't compare it to a Catalina 30, but I suspect it is very similar in sailing characteristics. The S2 has a Yanmar diesel, which is better than the Universal which the Catalina probably has. I would look at both the Catalina and the S2 and take them both out for a sail before deciding.
looked at the sail calculator
The Catalina 30 is clearly better than the Oday on most counts. The S2 and C30 were about the same on ratios. The S2 a little better on capsize ratio and motion comfort. So the better sailboat by the numbers would be s2,c30,Oday. That is completely ignoring build quality and how they have been cared for over the years. The Catalina 30 is the heaviest. As previously mentioned Catalina is still in business and has made more boats than anyone else in the world. there are probably more C30's than any other boat model in it's size range. That says something.
The Catalina 30 is clearly better than the Oday on most counts. The S2 and C30 were about the same on ratios. The S2 a little better on capsize ratio and motion comfort. So the better sailboat by the numbers would be s2,c30,Oday. That is completely ignoring build quality and how they have been cared for over the years. The Catalina 30 is the heaviest. As previously mentioned Catalina is still in business and has made more boats than anyone else in the world. there are probably more C30's than any other boat model in it's size range. That says something.
Which boat?
I have owned a 9.2A (1985) and they are well constructed vessels. Like all vessels, each has its own idiosynchrosies (sp.) and the 9.2A is no exception. First, I hope you consider having a survey done on any boat you purchase. A good surveyor can save you a lot of money. Second, leaking chain plates are a continuous problem with S-2's. The deck is balsa-cored and if periodic examination and repairs are not made you could have serious problems. Third, the Yanmar is an excellent engine but I think the 2GM is underpowered for this vessel. Mine had a 3GM and it was adequate. Fourth, the location of the winches on the early 80's models made it difficult to reach. In 1985, S-2 moved them aft, almost parallel with the helm which made it very easy to sail. Finally, the aft-boom mounted traveler is a nuisance at times. Although easy to adjust while under sail, there are times when you have to be careful you don't get decapitated. You might also want to go to Sailnet and check out the S-2 site. It's pretty active and you may be able to get additional information from other owners. Best of luck, Hank LeSieur
I have owned a 9.2A (1985) and they are well constructed vessels. Like all vessels, each has its own idiosynchrosies (sp.) and the 9.2A is no exception. First, I hope you consider having a survey done on any boat you purchase. A good surveyor can save you a lot of money. Second, leaking chain plates are a continuous problem with S-2's. The deck is balsa-cored and if periodic examination and repairs are not made you could have serious problems. Third, the Yanmar is an excellent engine but I think the 2GM is underpowered for this vessel. Mine had a 3GM and it was adequate. Fourth, the location of the winches on the early 80's models made it difficult to reach. In 1985, S-2 moved them aft, almost parallel with the helm which made it very easy to sail. Finally, the aft-boom mounted traveler is a nuisance at times. Although easy to adjust while under sail, there are times when you have to be careful you don't get decapitated. You might also want to go to Sailnet and check out the S-2 site. It's pretty active and you may be able to get additional information from other owners. Best of luck, Hank LeSieur
Don't like doing the sister thing
Never trust anyone that can't give you a real picture of what your going to buy. Why post pictures of a sistership if you can't show the one for sale. So I'd scratch the O'Day, go with the Catalina. Just my choice of the 3, I've sail on 30 Catalina's and 25 O'Days but i own a Newport30. Good luck
Never trust anyone that can't give you a real picture of what your going to buy. Why post pictures of a sistership if you can't show the one for sale. So I'd scratch the O'Day, go with the Catalina. Just my choice of the 3, I've sail on 30 Catalina's and 25 O'Days but i own a Newport30. Good luck
Beneteau?
There are a few Beneteau 30E's for sale on Yachtworld.com around $20K. The brand has a rep for good build quality and resale value - maybe worth a look.
There are a few Beneteau 30E's for sale on Yachtworld.com around $20K. The brand has a rep for good build quality and resale value - maybe worth a look.
My 2 cents
I am a marine syrveyor and have performed surveys on all three of the types of boats you mentioned. Of the three, for the type of usage you mentioned, I would go for the Catalina. The S2 is a little more performance oriented and the O Day is a very lightly constructed boat. Catalina is still in business and has a strong customer service department that actually supports its older boats. The Catalina 30 is probably the most popular 30 footer ever built and for good reason. It may not be perfect but it does most things you will ask of it well. The advice to get a good survey is right on. Any older boat is subject to many types of stress and abuse. And even the best can have substantial defects. Check the archives on here fro problems related to the models you are looking at. With production boats the problems that come up with one are likely to appear in many of the same make and model. Dan Sheehan
I am a marine syrveyor and have performed surveys on all three of the types of boats you mentioned. Of the three, for the type of usage you mentioned, I would go for the Catalina. The S2 is a little more performance oriented and the O Day is a very lightly constructed boat. Catalina is still in business and has a strong customer service department that actually supports its older boats. The Catalina 30 is probably the most popular 30 footer ever built and for good reason. It may not be perfect but it does most things you will ask of it well. The advice to get a good survey is right on. Any older boat is subject to many types of stress and abuse. And even the best can have substantial defects. Check the archives on here fro problems related to the models you are looking at. With production boats the problems that come up with one are likely to appear in many of the same make and model. Dan Sheehan
The Catalina looks like the better buy
After looking at the pictures and comparing the specs, I would go with the Catalina 30. It also seems to be in good shape, has a higher HP engine, bimini, air conditioning unit and a relatively new main sail. For the $1000 difference in asking price, looks like the better buy, but you will have to bring it up from Annapolis. As was suggested by another writer, be sure to have a survey done.
After looking at the pictures and comparing the specs, I would go with the Catalina 30. It also seems to be in good shape, has a higher HP engine, bimini, air conditioning unit and a relatively new main sail. For the $1000 difference in asking price, looks like the better buy, but you will have to bring it up from Annapolis. As was suggested by another writer, be sure to have a survey done.
Rick D you are right
I use the sail calculator as a rough indicator not the final measure. Just as the horsepower of a truck doesn't tell you if it will tow well it gives you an ideal. A boat with a high SA/Disp and low #s/length ratio will behave much differently than one with low sa/disp and high #s/length. But the ratios tell you nothing about build quality and overall design. The PHRF handicap is also a very usefull number to consider. In the past couple of years I have read several books on boat design. In my humble opinion the ratios are a great place to start when considering boats. You can quickly consider many designs without too much effort then take a closer look at the ones that you find most interesting. Unfortunately the first number that I am forced to consider is price!!!
I use the sail calculator as a rough indicator not the final measure. Just as the horsepower of a truck doesn't tell you if it will tow well it gives you an ideal. A boat with a high SA/Disp and low #s/length ratio will behave much differently than one with low sa/disp and high #s/length. But the ratios tell you nothing about build quality and overall design. The PHRF handicap is also a very usefull number to consider. In the past couple of years I have read several books on boat design. In my humble opinion the ratios are a great place to start when considering boats. You can quickly consider many designs without too much effort then take a closer look at the ones that you find most interesting. Unfortunately the first number that I am forced to consider is price!!!
Two good sources
of info are "Used Boat Notebook" by John Kretschmer (from SAILING magazine Articles)www.sheridanhouse.com and "Practical Boat Buying" put out by PRACTICAL SAILOR magazine. The former has reviews of 50 boats, 6 of them 30 footers, including the Catalina and S2. The latter has 13 reviews of 30 footers, including all 3 you mentioned. Costs are about $26 and $45, rspy, but worth it if they help you decide on a $20k purchase.
of info are "Used Boat Notebook" by John Kretschmer (from SAILING magazine Articles)www.sheridanhouse.com and "Practical Boat Buying" put out by PRACTICAL SAILOR magazine. The former has reviews of 50 boats, 6 of them 30 footers, including the Catalina and S2. The latter has 13 reviews of 30 footers, including all 3 you mentioned. Costs are about $26 and $45, rspy, but worth it if they help you decide on a $20k purchase.
Practical Boat Buying
Hello, Thanks for all the comments. Very good info, and that's why I posted my question here. Regarding the comment about Practical Boat Buying, my library had it, so I borrowed it. They review the Catalina 30, S2 9.2A, Oday 30 (not 302), and a number of other 30's as well, including Hunter, and Tartan. Of all the 30's about the only one they were very positive about was the S2. I quote: "S2 9.2 - A Roomy well built middle of the road cruiser with both aft and center cockpit versions." "The S2's were well built. Whereas other production companies frequently cheapened or upgraded models from year to year to find marketing niches, S2 made boats to sell near the high end of the production boat market, and kept quality at a consistant level." For the Catalina 30: "One of the most popular, and lear expensive, 30 foot cruiser-racers ever built, but there are some trade-offs" "According to Frank Butler, president and chief designer for Catalina, the company's goal is to provide 'as much boat for the money as we can.' The Catalina 30 is definitely among the lowest priced in the 30' cruiser-racers. This boat is similar in price to the Hunter 30. For their displacements, these are two of the least expensive 30' cruiser-racers in the market. It is not reasonable to compare these boats with more expensive 30-footers such as the ERicson 30+ or the Cal31 There are tradeoffs to be made when one purchases a cheaper boat. In boats, as in most other things, you may not always get what you pay for, but you always pay at least for what you get." One final thing, I will definitely get a survey before I buy a boat. Thanks, Barry
Hello, Thanks for all the comments. Very good info, and that's why I posted my question here. Regarding the comment about Practical Boat Buying, my library had it, so I borrowed it. They review the Catalina 30, S2 9.2A, Oday 30 (not 302), and a number of other 30's as well, including Hunter, and Tartan. Of all the 30's about the only one they were very positive about was the S2. I quote: "S2 9.2 - A Roomy well built middle of the road cruiser with both aft and center cockpit versions." "The S2's were well built. Whereas other production companies frequently cheapened or upgraded models from year to year to find marketing niches, S2 made boats to sell near the high end of the production boat market, and kept quality at a consistant level." For the Catalina 30: "One of the most popular, and lear expensive, 30 foot cruiser-racers ever built, but there are some trade-offs" "According to Frank Butler, president and chief designer for Catalina, the company's goal is to provide 'as much boat for the money as we can.' The Catalina 30 is definitely among the lowest priced in the 30' cruiser-racers. This boat is similar in price to the Hunter 30. For their displacements, these are two of the least expensive 30' cruiser-racers in the market. It is not reasonable to compare these boats with more expensive 30-footers such as the ERicson 30+ or the Cal31 There are tradeoffs to be made when one purchases a cheaper boat. In boats, as in most other things, you may not always get what you pay for, but you always pay at least for what you get." One final thing, I will definitely get a survey before I buy a boat. Thanks, Barry
One choice....Alberg 30
Just kidding, of course there are as many choices as there are sailors. We were in your position a couple years ago, and did a lot of looking. Based on reviews, advice, web info like this ;-), we chose a 67 Alberg. The boat's bullet-proof--very well designed, sturdily built, and easy to sail. It has all the basic amenities--sleeping berths, a small galley, a functioning head, etc. The lines are, well, to be honest, beautiful. She has the limitations of her vintage--narrow beam (8'9")--which limits the space one might want for extended cruising. Still, the boat is perfect for the kind of sailing you describe. Prices range from $13K for a "fixer upper" to $20-$25K for a boat that has been significantly updated and ready to sail away with little to no work required. Let me know if you want more info. Fair winds, Bill
Just kidding, of course there are as many choices as there are sailors. We were in your position a couple years ago, and did a lot of looking. Based on reviews, advice, web info like this ;-), we chose a 67 Alberg. The boat's bullet-proof--very well designed, sturdily built, and easy to sail. It has all the basic amenities--sleeping berths, a small galley, a functioning head, etc. The lines are, well, to be honest, beautiful. She has the limitations of her vintage--narrow beam (8'9")--which limits the space one might want for extended cruising. Still, the boat is perfect for the kind of sailing you describe. Prices range from $13K for a "fixer upper" to $20-$25K for a boat that has been significantly updated and ready to sail away with little to no work required. Let me know if you want more info. Fair winds, Bill
NO QUESTION IT'S the
Catalina without a doubt. IT HAS AIR!!!! Unless you live in the Canadain North, you'll need air! When I say NEED AIR, I MEAN NEED AIR! Unless you want a day sailor. Besides Catalina is the best of the three! The Catalina 30 is a very very popular boat! Get the air or you'll be sorry!
Catalina without a doubt. IT HAS AIR!!!! Unless you live in the Canadain North, you'll need air! When I say NEED AIR, I MEAN NEED AIR! Unless you want a day sailor. Besides Catalina is the best of the three! The Catalina 30 is a very very popular boat! Get the air or you'll be sorry!
looks like the C30
is a tall rig with a bowsprit, with the A/C what's not to like? Mr Butler is quite modest with his regards to his boats! we love our C30!
is a tall rig with a bowsprit, with the A/C what's not to like? Mr Butler is quite modest with his regards to his boats! we love our C30!
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