Where to MOST LIKELY buy yacht insurance?

[Prairie Virgin Sailor]

Something else to look out for, if it applies to your next boat: Lithium batteries. When I sold my H36 in 2022 with AGMs and bought a boat that came with lithiums my insurer at the time, Markel (who had been great up to that point), refused to insure the boat specifically because it had lithium batteries UNLESS they were certified by the manufacturer to have been made in the US by a US manufacturer (as in not imported and sold by a US manufacturer). They wanted a letter from the manufacturer, or a manufacturer approved battery expert to inspect the installation. They also required the surveyor to certify that they were installed correctly, which the surveyor refused to do for liability reasons. He was happy with their installation, which was done locally and professionally (and for which the PO provided a paid invoice), but the surveyor was in no way going to be held liable for any future claim related to such a guarantee. I do not blame him. I called up BoatUS and they provided coverage over the phone without any such nonsense.

Wow, that is interesting. I will indeed keep this in mind. Thanks

 

[tfox2069]

Last week I spoke with BoatUS insurance they assured me that I can install LFP batteries without any insurance (from them) issues.

Some US insurance companies want a US based manufacturer so they can be sued if the battery causes a claim. In all cases, I would be very cautious of any home-brew DIY LFP battery.

After reading @Maine Sail writeups on Chinese lithium batteries I can definitely see the point about being cautious. I would encourage anyone who hasn't read his excellent information to do so if you're even curious about introducing lithium batteries into your system - especially if on the cheap.

My installation was Relion RB-100s installed professionally with all the necessary upgrades for a full lithium system and the documentation, but Markel still wanted a letter from Relion (good luck) and a local expert to inspect. The interaction left me with the feeling that they were aware of the potential risks with cheap lithium batteries and a poor installation, but not with who the US manufacturers are, etc. That lost them a customer, and other insurance companies were glad to pick me up.

 

[Prairie Virgin Sailor]

After reading @Maine Sail writeups on Chinese lithium batteries I can definitely see the point about being cautious. I would encourage anyone who hasn't read his excellent information to do so if you're even curious about introducing lithium batteries into your system - especially if on the cheap.

My installation was Relion RB-100s installed professionally with all the necessary upgrades for a full lithium system and the documentation, but Markel still wanted a letter from Relion (good luck) and a local expert to inspect. The interaction left me with the feeling that they were aware of the potential risks with cheap lithium batteries and a poor installation, but not with who the US manufacturers are, etc. That lost them a customer, and other insurance companies were glad to pick me up.

My understanding is Lithium ion will not catch fire, but lithium can. I saw this on a youtube video.

 

[tfox2069]

My understanding is Lithium ion will not catch fire, but lithium can. I saw this on a youtube video.

To be clear, I was using the term "lithium batteries" in its most general meaning, so wasn't specifying any specific types of batteries that could be included in that broad category.

Also, a quick Google reveals a lot of information on Lithium Ion batteries catching fire - so I don't think your YouTube video was accurate. Here's a couple of reasonably authoritative sources to read more on that subject:

Lithium-Ion Battery Fires and Fire Protection - National Fire Sprinkler Association (nfsa.org)
Battery Safety : Top 5 Reasons Why Lithium-Ion Batteries Catch Fire — ION Energy

 

[dlochner]

On boats we often generically refer to Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries as Lithium because it is easier to say and more frequently it is LFP because it is easier to type than the correct formula, which is LiFePO4.

LFP batteries are broadly speaking lithium ion batteries, however, all lithium based batteries are technically lithium ion batteries. There are different kinds of chemistries involved in the batteries, some are lithium and cobalt, some are lithium and manganese. The various chemistries have different characteristics and some are more prone to fires, i.e., rapid oxidation of the lithium than others. The big danger of a lithium fire is that it can not be easily squelched, pouring water on it can make it worse.

LFP batteries appear to be immune to fire. ABYC has extensively test LFP batteries trying to get them to burn and they could not get them to catch fire. They posted a statement on this last fall. But not every insurance company has gotten the message.

While LFP batteries offer many advantages, they are not a drop in solution. It is best to do your research and listen to experts in the field, not just the YouTube videos and remember the marine environment is much different from the RV environment.

We will be replacing our FireFly batteries this spring with LFP. It will be an easy swap because I already have a LFP compatible charger, solar controllers, LFP compatible regulator and high out put alternator.