I've got a leak in my portside water tank on my H37C. Has anyone had a leak and discovered it was something really simple like a hose.. It seems to be coming from underneath the tank. None of the visible hoses or fittings are leaking. Where ever it is, it drains the tank dry. Second question: Is there a sealant I can buy that does not require pulling the (Oh My God!!!) tank? Thanks.... Ron/KA5HZV
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Uh-oh...
Unless it's a leak at a fitting or a seam you can get to, I don't think you have a choice but to pull the tank or stop using it. I'm guessing it's aluminum, and more than 10 years old...and I suspect moisture and salt air have gotten under and turned the bottom into a collander.
Unless it's a leak at a fitting or a seam you can get to, I don't think you have a choice but to pull the tank or stop using it. I'm guessing it's aluminum, and more than 10 years old...and I suspect moisture and salt air have gotten under and turned the bottom into a collander.
Water Tank
If it turns out the tank IS a collander, and if you have to replace it, I'd look into putting a bladder-type into the existing one from the top. If the baffles are too numerous and/or not removable, you may have to put in several, but getting that tank OUT of there will probably mean a rebuild of the settee top.
If it turns out the tank IS a collander, and if you have to replace it, I'd look into putting a bladder-type into the existing one from the top. If the baffles are too numerous and/or not removable, you may have to put in several, but getting that tank OUT of there will probably mean a rebuild of the settee top.
it's fixable
The aluminum tanks get spots of deposits (Lime??) and under them are pits of corrosion. Eventually they go through and leave holes in the tank. First, you need to put in some cleanouts. Use either some screw out type deck plates, or cut holes, then aluminum plates about an inch bigger to cover the holes, then drill and tap all around them to close it up. To fix the pitted holes in the tank, clean it well, then use cloth and epoxy where there are actually holes, then paint the whole insides with epoxy. I talked to the folks at West Systems and they suggested using the acid etch that is used with Awlgrip paint, but since that is not real practical here, they said the next best is to clean it as best as you can, then when the epoxy is painted on, use a scotch brite pad to scuff the aluminun in the epoxy. This will scratch loose the surface corrosion, leaving it in the epoxy and making for better adhesion. You can pressure test the tank using a gauge and fitting used for pressure testing gas lines. Put a 5/8" pipe fitting in it, hook it in the vent line and pump it up with an air compressor. Don't use more than about 5 lbs. (don't even ask how I know this!) Listen for leaks, use soapy water or what ever. If you have any questions, feel free to ask, but I'll be leaving for the Regatta de Amigos to Mexico Friday and will be gone for 3 weeks. Gene Gruender austinsailor@cs.com
The aluminum tanks get spots of deposits (Lime??) and under them are pits of corrosion. Eventually they go through and leave holes in the tank. First, you need to put in some cleanouts. Use either some screw out type deck plates, or cut holes, then aluminum plates about an inch bigger to cover the holes, then drill and tap all around them to close it up. To fix the pitted holes in the tank, clean it well, then use cloth and epoxy where there are actually holes, then paint the whole insides with epoxy. I talked to the folks at West Systems and they suggested using the acid etch that is used with Awlgrip paint, but since that is not real practical here, they said the next best is to clean it as best as you can, then when the epoxy is painted on, use a scotch brite pad to scuff the aluminun in the epoxy. This will scratch loose the surface corrosion, leaving it in the epoxy and making for better adhesion. You can pressure test the tank using a gauge and fitting used for pressure testing gas lines. Put a 5/8" pipe fitting in it, hook it in the vent line and pump it up with an air compressor. Don't use more than about 5 lbs. (don't even ask how I know this!) Listen for leaks, use soapy water or what ever. If you have any questions, feel free to ask, but I'll be leaving for the Regatta de Amigos to Mexico Friday and will be gone for 3 weeks. Gene Gruender austinsailor@cs.com
Did the folks at West Systems assured you that
the epoxy is safe to use in potable water? Most aren't.
the epoxy is safe to use in potable water? Most aren't.
Depending on how you use your water....
why not just hook your pump up to a through-hull and use salt-water...I would never drink the water in my system anyway (not that I couldn't) but the salt water is fine for washing dishes, brushing teeth etc. Maybe peggy would know the effects of salt water on the pump and all peripheral stuff ie water heater? Just a thought...
why not just hook your pump up to a through-hull and use salt-water...I would never drink the water in my system anyway (not that I couldn't) but the salt water is fine for washing dishes, brushing teeth etc. Maybe peggy would know the effects of salt water on the pump and all peripheral stuff ie water heater? Just a thought...
West?
> Did the folks at West Systems assured > you that the epoxy is safe to use in > potable water? Most aren't. Well, not exactly. A friend make his out of plywood and west epoxy a couple years ago after talking to them. I assumed they had no reservations about it, maybe that was a mistake. I was converting my tank to a use as a fuel tank, so I didn't ask that part since I thought it had already been answered. I can say they have no problem with it being used for fuel. :^) There have been plenty of other water tanks made of epoxy, including original manufacturers tanks, so I doubt it is a problem. It's certainly not unreasonable to call and ask, though. In this day and age of lawsuits and federal rules governing the use and labeling of everything I doubt anyone would approve anything, though. The real test might be to ask if there is any strong reason NOT to do it, as they probably legally can't say you can for liability reasons. Just a guess on my part. I can say that when (not if) my other tank develops a leak I have no reservations about painting the inside of it, too. By the way, the pitting seems to be much faster when the tank is kept dry.
> Did the folks at West Systems assured > you that the epoxy is safe to use in > potable water? Most aren't. Well, not exactly. A friend make his out of plywood and west epoxy a couple years ago after talking to them. I assumed they had no reservations about it, maybe that was a mistake. I was converting my tank to a use as a fuel tank, so I didn't ask that part since I thought it had already been answered. I can say they have no problem with it being used for fuel. :^) There have been plenty of other water tanks made of epoxy, including original manufacturers tanks, so I doubt it is a problem. It's certainly not unreasonable to call and ask, though. In this day and age of lawsuits and federal rules governing the use and labeling of everything I doubt anyone would approve anything, though. The real test might be to ask if there is any strong reason NOT to do it, as they probably legally can't say you can for liability reasons. Just a guess on my part. I can say that when (not if) my other tank develops a leak I have no reservations about painting the inside of it, too. By the way, the pitting seems to be much faster when the tank is kept dry.
You DO realize...
that everything you'll have to do to salvage your tank will be at LEAST as much work as replacing it? And prob'ly won't cost you much less. Check out Ronco Plastics (link below)...they make top quality poly tanks...have more than 400 shapes and sizes, of which at least 100 are non-rectangular, you can spec the fittings where you need 'em to be installed by them when they make your tank. And for a VERY reasonable price.
that everything you'll have to do to salvage your tank will be at LEAST as much work as replacing it? And prob'ly won't cost you much less. Check out Ronco Plastics (link below)...they make top quality poly tanks...have more than 400 shapes and sizes, of which at least 100 are non-rectangular, you can spec the fittings where you need 'em to be installed by them when they make your tank. And for a VERY reasonable price.
Peggy, you wouldn't suggest. . .
replacing the tank if you ever saw the installation on an H37C. There is one 50 gallon(advertised) aluminum tank glassed into the hull on each side. The hull liner is then installed. So you have "furniture": top, ends and front are gelcoated fiberglass with teak trim. These are the settees. In fact Ron will have to cut out the glass in a spot or two in order to add cleanout ports between the baffles. Gene has all the detail for this somewhere.
replacing the tank if you ever saw the installation on an H37C. There is one 50 gallon(advertised) aluminum tank glassed into the hull on each side. The hull liner is then installed. So you have "furniture": top, ends and front are gelcoated fiberglass with teak trim. These are the settees. In fact Ron will have to cut out the glass in a spot or two in order to add cleanout ports between the baffles. Gene has all the detail for this somewhere.
I admit I haven't seen it...but--
how's he gonna get enough access to the inside of the tank to cover all the pitting in the bottom with epoxy without doing so much surgery on the "furniture" etc that he might as well do the rest and take the d'd thing out? Fwiw, years ago I had to have all the upholstery redone on a boat--not just removeable cushions, but permanently attached "furniture"...and carpet that ran up the sides behind it, behind cabinetry, and behind "chair rails." I'd have sworn there was no way to get any of it off without MAJOR surgery to the boat...but the upholsterer--who was referred to me by the dealer, btw--had the right tools and knew just where to put what...she had it all apart in a heartbeat and put it back together just as easily. The boat was 8 years old...I'd owned her for 4. So what I'm thinkin' here is that if a pro who knew Sea Rays knew how to take a 34' Sea Ray apart and put it back together, a pro who knows Hunters SHOULD know how to take a Hunter apart and put it back together. Just 'cuz the owner can't figure out how to do it, doesn't mean it isn't easy to do.
how's he gonna get enough access to the inside of the tank to cover all the pitting in the bottom with epoxy without doing so much surgery on the "furniture" etc that he might as well do the rest and take the d'd thing out? Fwiw, years ago I had to have all the upholstery redone on a boat--not just removeable cushions, but permanently attached "furniture"...and carpet that ran up the sides behind it, behind cabinetry, and behind "chair rails." I'd have sworn there was no way to get any of it off without MAJOR surgery to the boat...but the upholsterer--who was referred to me by the dealer, btw--had the right tools and knew just where to put what...she had it all apart in a heartbeat and put it back together just as easily. The boat was 8 years old...I'd owned her for 4. So what I'm thinkin' here is that if a pro who knew Sea Rays knew how to take a 34' Sea Ray apart and put it back together, a pro who knows Hunters SHOULD know how to take a Hunter apart and put it back together. Just 'cuz the owner can't figure out how to do it, doesn't mean it isn't easy to do.
a few details
I'll try to describe it now, but pictures will help. Rainbow Chaser is about 220 miles away in Rockport, Texas now. I'm heading there Friday, then sailing for Galveston, then to Mexico. In about 3 weeks I can post some pictures. There are 3 sections in the port tank, (two baffles) and 2 sections in the stbd tank (one baffle). On the port tank you can get to the end sections through the lift out panels on top of the tank. On the stbd side, only the one in the front has access. That leaves two that aren't easily accessable. What I did was to cut a hole in the fiberglass/plywood above the centers of the two sections without access to the top of the tank, the hole being for an 8" pry-out type deck plate. Below that I cut a hole for a 6" deck plate in the tank itself. A person could easily go a size or two bigger. You could also use something else to cover the hole, like an aluminum plate or any one of many other options. Imigination can help here. I originally cut the the holes for the cleanouts in mine just to be able to clean out the tank. My first shot at this came after I'd cut out the stbd side of the interior to move out the settee, found the tank was loose and floating around in the side of the boat and took it out on the dock to wash it out. After using a hose and shaking it until I got over a gallon of crud out of it, I decided it (and the other one that was still in the boat) needed more access. Recently I wanted to convert the port tank to a fuel tank, and when I found I needed to seal it, I cut much larger holes and used an aluminum plate as the cover for the cleanouts. I just cut a hole about a foot square in the end compartments, then cut a plate of aluminum I got in the scrap yard to go about an inch farther all around. I drilled and tapped it all around, sealed it up and it works fine. I can say that the 6" cleanout is difficult to work through and it would have been easier if the hole was larger. I'll try to take some pictures and post them when I get back in about 3 to 4 weeks. Feel free to send me an email to remind me.
I'll try to describe it now, but pictures will help. Rainbow Chaser is about 220 miles away in Rockport, Texas now. I'm heading there Friday, then sailing for Galveston, then to Mexico. In about 3 weeks I can post some pictures. There are 3 sections in the port tank, (two baffles) and 2 sections in the stbd tank (one baffle). On the port tank you can get to the end sections through the lift out panels on top of the tank. On the stbd side, only the one in the front has access. That leaves two that aren't easily accessable. What I did was to cut a hole in the fiberglass/plywood above the centers of the two sections without access to the top of the tank, the hole being for an 8" pry-out type deck plate. Below that I cut a hole for a 6" deck plate in the tank itself. A person could easily go a size or two bigger. You could also use something else to cover the hole, like an aluminum plate or any one of many other options. Imigination can help here. I originally cut the the holes for the cleanouts in mine just to be able to clean out the tank. My first shot at this came after I'd cut out the stbd side of the interior to move out the settee, found the tank was loose and floating around in the side of the boat and took it out on the dock to wash it out. After using a hose and shaking it until I got over a gallon of crud out of it, I decided it (and the other one that was still in the boat) needed more access. Recently I wanted to convert the port tank to a fuel tank, and when I found I needed to seal it, I cut much larger holes and used an aluminum plate as the cover for the cleanouts. I just cut a hole about a foot square in the end compartments, then cut a plate of aluminum I got in the scrap yard to go about an inch farther all around. I drilled and tapped it all around, sealed it up and it works fine. I can say that the 6" cleanout is difficult to work through and it would have been easier if the hole was larger. I'll try to take some pictures and post them when I get back in about 3 to 4 weeks. Feel free to send me an email to remind me.
Oh, about Ronco...
Peggy, I agree with you on the Ronco tanks if you could get one in. As someone else mentioned, it's a real butcher job to get in there. I did install a Ronco tank, though. Once I converted the one tank to a fuel tank (I can make water, I can't make fuel!) I still wanted a second tank for water. I bought a Ronco tank and installed it in a cavity that was left when I did the cutting on the stbd side. They did an excellent job, delivered in about a week and a half, make it just as I wanted, and best of all, charged me only HALF of what their catalog said it would cost.
Peggy, I agree with you on the Ronco tanks if you could get one in. As someone else mentioned, it's a real butcher job to get in there. I did install a Ronco tank, though. Once I converted the one tank to a fuel tank (I can make water, I can't make fuel!) I still wanted a second tank for water. I bought a Ronco tank and installed it in a cavity that was left when I did the cutting on the stbd side. They did an excellent job, delivered in about a week and a half, make it just as I wanted, and best of all, charged me only HALF of what their catalog said it would cost.
The solution is?
Retirement!
Ron and Gene have the time and the ability. So I agree with Peggy on this one Ron. Cut that SOB out of there and put in a good Ronco tank. I had the same experience as Gene when I ordered my Ronco holding tank. And they will definitely have something that is sized right and fits well. And you might as well do the starboard side while you have the mess. Still don't have my HAM license so that I can call you. But I am studying.
Retirement!
Ron and Gene have the time and the ability. So I agree with Peggy on this one Ron. Cut that SOB out of there and put in a good Ronco tank. I had the same experience as Gene when I ordered my Ronco holding tank. And they will definitely have something that is sized right and fits well. And you might as well do the starboard side while you have the mess. Still don't have my HAM license so that I can call you. But I am studying.Okay... I get it...
Thanks to everyone for your input on the water tank problem. I'll weigh all the information and make my decision. I can see that there is no easy fix here. I've attached the only pic I have of the tank set-up. Hope it clarifies what I'm up against. I think my big mistake was in adding inspection ports and cleaning the tanks last year.. And Gene; good luck in the race. I had a chance to go, but opted for refridgeration classes instead. Maybe in two years.... Ron
Thanks to everyone for your input on the water tank problem. I'll weigh all the information and make my decision. I can see that there is no easy fix here. I've attached the only pic I have of the tank set-up. Hope it clarifies what I'm up against. I think my big mistake was in adding inspection ports and cleaning the tanks last year.. And Gene; good luck in the race. I had a chance to go, but opted for refridgeration classes instead. Maybe in two years.... Ron
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