When to move up?

Sailavie1 · Feb 10, 2022

I would say go for it. In my experience I moved from a 16 to 22 and stopped at 25 (lake sailing only). I have heard, and agree with, that for most people there is an inverse relationship with the length of the boat and how often it is used. Of course there are many variables to consider like what type of water you sail in, solo vs crew sailing, creature comforts etc. A proper head and standing headroom are very important and most boats over 26’ will provide these. Another consideration is that the cost of ownership goes up with length.

Roland5048 · Feb 10, 2022

I feel you already know the answer and might just be looking for some validation. Given your sailing grounds, L.I. Sound and Buzzard' Bay, you would definitely be more comfortable and safer in something larger. A larger boat is usually more forgiving and more stable. Of course, maintenence and related costs go up exponentially. See @Sailavie1 response above. Do you have a place to moor a larger boat? Trailering is not a viable option. Many questions to ponder first. I'm expecting a lot of responses to your query. Good luck, keep an open mind, and have fun sorting this out.

seadaddler · Feb 10, 2022

I agree moving up and I started with Hobbie and got a Hunter 290 in 2000 living on LI east end Riverhead
Sailed mostly Peconic Bay while working with just weekends off and loved over nighters.
07 moved up H-36 as I retired and love the room and 08 moved to SW Florida sailed my 36 to Florida now we do many 3 week trips to the Keys and all over Florida and more room will let you enjoy boating so much more.
Nickp

BigEasy · Feb 10, 2022

No problem at all with being capable of single handing the prospective boats on your wish list.
You just need to determine your budget and then start shopping. Selling your existing boat and searching for the new boat will take some time and effort. Spring will be an ideal time to sell and buy. Good Luck.

dlochner · Feb 10, 2022

When some on board says, “Ya know we need a bigger boat.“ It time to start to start thinking, looking, and saving.

Parsons · Feb 10, 2022

Congratulations on catching Five-foot-itis! This will be exactly like buying a bigger car or SUV, the first time you take it out you are scared that you will never be able to handle it. After a year, it is just "your car" and you whip it into a parking spot without thinking. Costs and weights go up by a cube factor because it is based on weight/volume not length, and a 30 footer will have roughly twice the volume of a 23 footer. That said, comfort will go up proportionally as well.

As for brands if you are buying pre-owned, it is not as important as the history of that specific boat and previous owner (PO), like houses. You probably want a comfortable family coastal cruiser, not a racing or blue-water boat which will cost more and be less comfortable. Every boat is a compromise between comfort, costs, performance, reliability, etc. so pick what is important to you and shop there. Also, some comments about brands are based on the one or two examples that people have sailed, as opposed to some rigorous study - like asking at the bar which is better Ford, Chevy or Dodge. Suggested coastal cruising brands are the ones that buy space in the glossy sailing mags: Catalina and Hunter are probably 90% of market in those lengths, and are all very safe. Also, consider a few feet larger, if you have growing kids, as they will not want to sleep on the deck forever.

jssailem · Feb 10, 2022

Pkeller said:
On that note, are there any boats in the 27-30' range that you would specifically avoid or conversely steer towards?

Congrats on your successful adventures. It is great to hear you and your family enjoying these sailing cruises.

All boats are a compromise. There really is no concrete answer to the question you ask. There are boats that owners enjoy while others feel the boats are lemons.

Search for a boat that catches your eye. A boat that your family is excited to own. That fits your budget and leaves money to make improvements. You want to have funds to still go sailing after all is done.

If you choose a project boat, be sure the boat hull and deck are sound.

You want the boat to keep the water out,
The boat needs to fit your needs
You want to assure the sails and rigging are strong and ready to carry you on your adventures
Be sure all the plumbing works as expected

Those are the key item. There is plenty more to think about but a sound boat can resolve a lot of issues.

Your new big boat will act slower than your 23. It also will tend to keep going (momentum) when your soon to be old boat would have stopped.
Good luck.

Leeward Rail · Feb 10, 2022

Sailavie1 said:
Another consideration is that the cost of ownership goes up with length

Pkeller said:
The increase in costs was expected as I know storage, repairs etc scale up.

For me the big thing isn't cost... It is time.
Only so many days available.
Maintenance on more gear takes more time.

The sailing gear will be similar but when going from a trailerable boat with a porta-pottie, cooler, and outboard... to a bigger boat...

A bigger boat will usually have:

A head and sewage tank
Water tanks and plumbing
Inboard engine with fuel tank
Dual battery bank and more complex wiring
Bigger stove with possible fuel lines/tanks
All the plumbing, thru-hulls, wiring and power consumption that the above create.

We recently bought a 30ft boat to replace our 22.

The Admiral works long and strange hours, so that seriously infringes on sailing time, and kills any chance of trailering the boat to new places.

Result:
We have/had a trailerable boat that we towed to/from the marina once each year, where it sits in a slip. We rarely get a weekend where work doesn't interfere.

Because of that, we had a needless compromise on daily comfort, which a trailerable boat requires.

What we needed:

A boat that was workable as a floating office. (Which would allow being aboard more, and sailing even half days)
A boat that is comfortable for guests.
A boat is comfortable at the dock for those days you aren't sailing it.

The 8 foot increase in slip fees, and the added launch/haulout fees are not much at all here.

The maintenance costs will go up.
Ability to do the maintenance is not an issue for me, but my big worry is spending the free time on maintenance work for all the extra gear listed above, instead of it actually allowing more time on the water as a couple.

We shall see.

My point ?
In some cases a slightly bigger boat will actually fit your needs better, and not cost a lot more compared to the benefits.... but in the case of upgrading to a conventionally equipped keelboat, the time doing maintenance may seriously eat into sailing time.

Pkeller said:
On that note, are there any boats in the 27-30' range that you would specifically avoid or conversely steer towards?

C&C 27 or 30. Underpriced, decently fast for their age, and built like a tank.

Tanzer boats:. Solid boat and shallow draft to get into thinner water.

Cal or Ranger boats depending on which coast you are on for availability. Same guy with slightly different design..like keel vs deck stepped masts.

Go meet owners and.sail and see them.

Avoid boats that were badly maintained, regardless of make/model. They will usually cost more in the long.run, and ALWAYS eat your time.

JoeWhite · Feb 10, 2022

It appears you have not taken any formal sailing classes. I highly recommend taking the first 3 classes, the last one is the bareboat. For your own safety and comfort and confidence. Make your next boat large so that you will not be dreaming for a bigger one. It is a lifetime investment both in money and time. Then have fun and be proud of your boat.

Apex · Feb 10, 2022

Pkeller said:
I bought a 1993 Hunter 23.5, along with the trailer, during the summer in 2020. I taught myself to solo sail that summer, primarily on just the main as the hank on jib was a bit intimidating and I wanted to feel confident before adding on more to manage (since it was all new to me). During the summer of 2021 I learned to sail under jib and main, got out on the water many times , did a few overnights anchoring around the Connecticut shoreline and did 2 week-long trips to Block Island with my kids as our vacation. We had a great time and I'm really looking forward to more sailing and trips this summer but I am already having fantasies of a bigger boat, mainly for a proper toilet and standing headroom.

Should I stick with the Hunter 23.5' for a few more years or would moving up to something like a 27'/30' be manageable? I would greatly appreciate some input from others more seasoned than myself.

Thank you in advance!

One thing that stands out to me in the equation, is moving away from the trailerable, into needing a slip. Others have talked in more detail about time investment and cost for more complicated maintenance. Good points, and what is a big factor is your use case, do you want to move to other locations quickly, launch there? Or perhaps your dream is to SAIL to those far away locations.

Having proper toilet and standing room can't be underestimated. I started on my BIG boat journey in a Catalina 25. The pop top was nice, but tired of hitting my head moving forward, wished for an inboard engine versus outboard. The O'Day covered much of that, and then 2foot-itis kicked in recently so I could buy out from under projects, finding a more finished feel and have better access to the water...to which I just bought a C&C 30. For single handing the 28 was super manageable. So far the 30 is more to handle docking, but sailing feels more manageable.

rgranger · Feb 10, 2022

I’ve owned 7 different sailboats during the time my kids were growing up. Learned a lot about what I needed, liked and did t like and eventually settled on a Hunter 26 as our ideal cruising family boat. Here are some of the variables that were important to me.

1) needs to be a swing keel. We LOVED sailing in the outer banks and there is a lot of skinny water (and anchorages there).
2) I needed to be able to tow and launch by myself.
3) the cockpit needs to be comfortable…. More important than the galley
4) place to stow the kids stuff
4.2) some sort of head but I was surprised at how less important that was than I thought that would be.

A nic

Roland5048 · Feb 10, 2022

Another very solid, comfortable, and roomy boat is the Island Packet. A 30 or 31 footer looks like it might just fit your needs. Even the 27 has quite of bit of room and all have adequate tankage. Something that is very important if you are going to do more than weekends. They are a bit pricey, but do hold their value.

Scott T-Bird · Feb 10, 2022

It sounds like you are thinking about that transition from trailer sailer to a boat that will be kept in the water and stored on land at a marina over the winter. This will add significant cost. It sounds like you are more worried about the transition in size and complexity rather than the cost differential. It also sounds like you enjoy the cruising aspect of sailing. All-in-all, you will not have any trouble stepping up to a 30' boat and one of the best (if not the best) is a Catalina 30. It is a very roomy boat and sails very well. It will make you feel very safe and comfortable on Long Island Sound and the Atlantic Ocean coastline. Do it soon ... you won't be sorry.

You will have no problem making the transition from the standpoint of handling the boat and sailing - that will be the easy part. There will be a whole host of more complex systems in electrics, plumbing and engine mechanics and navigation electronics. That will be a larger adjustment unless you are already pretty well versed in those areas.

DArcy · Feb 10, 2022

Pkeller said:
Thanks guys, appreciate the support!

That's like asking a bunch of drunks if you should have another drink, it doesn't take much to get this crowd going on a bigger boat

I agree, go for the bigger boat. It will take a bit of getting used to maneuvering but sailing a similar style 27 to 30 footer will be close to the same as your 23.5.
As for boat suggestions, you really can't go to far wrong with any of the big name production boats as long as they have been well maintained. It is mostly personal preferences. One of the nicest "classic" designs in that size range I have been aboard was a Mirage 29.

rgranger · Feb 10, 2022

DArcy said:
That's like asking a bunch of drunks if you should have another drink, it doesn't take much to get this crowd going on a bigger boat

OMG!!! I’m actually in a bar as I read this. I almost shot beer out my nose ….

Tom J · Feb 10, 2022

My path to a Catalina 310 was similar to your experience. I initially owned an O'Day 23 and taught myself to sail, learning what not to do as I experimented with the wind. I sailed her out of Cape Cod and Boston for 10 years, sharing adventures with my parents, my kids and friends. After I retired, it was time to move up to a cruiser, and the Admiral and I scoured the boat shows looking for the perfect boat. For us, the C310 is that boat, and we have been cruising on her ever since.
Take your time, enjoy the boat you have, and keep your eye out for that one that fits your future needs.

jssailem · Feb 10, 2022

A larger boat will have more features. Carry more gear. Have bigger sails. Cost more in moorage.

Solo sailing will require more strength in a bigger boat. At some point the sails are more than you maybe able to handle. I looked at a 50ftr. Many positives. The weight of the sails was more than I could manage. I found my sweet spot at 35-36 feet. I can handle all the tasks required to safely manage the boat In varied weather conditions. You need to consider this if you are the solo sailor with your kids aboard.

When to move up?

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John