This will be my first sailboat. I want to purchase a 1975 25' ODAY. When does the age of the boat become a concern regarding the structure or general safety? What do you look for other than the obvious damage? The boat appears to be in fair shape.
When is a boat too old?
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It is really a question
of what you want from the boat and what you are able to give the boat. Boats, like all things wear out piece by piece not all at once. So if you have a new boat or car you probably can expect several years of almost troublefree use. As they get older bit by bit they need some work. There are some parts that keep without much help and others that seem to go bad early. Window leaks get a lot of discussion here, as do leaking deck fittings. Engines wear out and need to be rebuilt or replaced. the wiring systems get tired and need replacing. Batteries are the same in cars or boats ,they don't last forever so you just have to expect to replace them every four or five years. Just as in cars boats bump into things once in a while and need a little body repair. furniture can be replaced and rearranged. My Islander was built in 1968 and my house in 1967 and my car is a 1987 volvo that I bought used to replace a 1978 volvo they are wagons and a I use as work cars. So I have some experience with old and the key to making it work is paying attention to the maintainance.
of what you want from the boat and what you are able to give the boat. Boats, like all things wear out piece by piece not all at once. So if you have a new boat or car you probably can expect several years of almost troublefree use. As they get older bit by bit they need some work. There are some parts that keep without much help and others that seem to go bad early. Window leaks get a lot of discussion here, as do leaking deck fittings. Engines wear out and need to be rebuilt or replaced. the wiring systems get tired and need replacing. Batteries are the same in cars or boats ,they don't last forever so you just have to expect to replace them every four or five years. Just as in cars boats bump into things once in a while and need a little body repair. furniture can be replaced and rearranged. My Islander was built in 1968 and my house in 1967 and my car is a 1987 volvo that I bought used to replace a 1978 volvo they are wagons and a I use as work cars. So I have some experience with old and the key to making it work is paying attention to the maintainance.
Old is sometimes good
You will find if you browse the pages here, that you are not looking at a boat that is not as old as those many on here own. One of the advangtages of the older boats is that they were not composite hulls, and were built like tanks. I think the main thing with older boats is not the age, but the care that has been taken of them during their life by previous owners. I would prefer an older well taken care of boat over a newer abused boat any time.
You will find if you browse the pages here, that you are not looking at a boat that is not as old as those many on here own. One of the advangtages of the older boats is that they were not composite hulls, and were built like tanks. I think the main thing with older boats is not the age, but the care that has been taken of them during their life by previous owners. I would prefer an older well taken care of boat over a newer abused boat any time.
I agree
I agree with Ross. If the boat had poor or no maintenace then the boat may become a "project" boat. One that has been well loved and maintained will be a boat you can sail tomorrow. New boats are cool because their new but older boats have a style all of there own. I like older boats because, generally, if the previous owner was worth his salt he would have made up-grades and additions that you will not have to make. So the bottom line for me is, maintenance, maintenance, maintenance.
I agree with Ross. If the boat had poor or no maintenace then the boat may become a "project" boat. One that has been well loved and maintained will be a boat you can sail tomorrow. New boats are cool because their new but older boats have a style all of there own. I like older boats because, generally, if the previous owner was worth his salt he would have made up-grades and additions that you will not have to make. So the bottom line for me is, maintenance, maintenance, maintenance.
If your here...
If your on this board reading and chatting about boats, then it's probaly a labor-of-love and you will enjoy the Sat. morning projects in the spring/fall
Rob
If your on this board reading and chatting about boats, then it's probaly a labor-of-love and you will enjoy the Sat. morning projects in the spring/fall
Rob
fiberglass
I think what he wants to know is, how long can fiberglass keep it's 100% strength. I've wondered that too. My boat is 10 years old now and I want to live aboard for 35-40 years. I know everything will need replacing at one time or another but the question is...will the hull last that long (minus collisions).
I think what he wants to know is, how long can fiberglass keep it's 100% strength. I've wondered that too. My boat is 10 years old now and I want to live aboard for 35-40 years. I know everything will need replacing at one time or another but the question is...will the hull last that long (minus collisions).
Franklin, fiberglass will lose
some of its strength over time but the old boats (pre 1980) were way over built. Gel coat cracks will show the areas of stress long before any loss of hull strength becomes a problem. But Franklin people that live in places as long as you are planning tend to add-on. I don't think that a new patio deck would look good and a bedroom wing might unbalance thinks just a bit. But if you can live within the wall of what you have and take good care of it. You can probably plan on a Viking funereal in it.
some of its strength over time but the old boats (pre 1980) were way over built. Gel coat cracks will show the areas of stress long before any loss of hull strength becomes a problem. But Franklin people that live in places as long as you are planning tend to add-on. I don't think that a new patio deck would look good and a bedroom wing might unbalance thinks just a bit. But if you can live within the wall of what you have and take good care of it. You can probably plan on a Viking funereal in it.
There is no answer
... to your question. We all know some"newer" boats that are in worse shape than boats 10-20 yrs older. Fiberglass boats have the potential of lasting forever. Some will, some won't. There are still lots of classic plastic Tritons and old Albergs sailing around. It all depends on the individual boat. I've always bought used boats that were in the 15-25 yr old category. All were very good boats. If you are thinking of buying an "older" boat, arm yourself with research and a VERY good surveyor. Read, for example, Don Casey's "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat." Like people, some boats hold up better than others...but usually the ones that have had good maintenance do better than the ones that haven't been cared for. Good luck.
... to your question. We all know some"newer" boats that are in worse shape than boats 10-20 yrs older. Fiberglass boats have the potential of lasting forever. Some will, some won't. There are still lots of classic plastic Tritons and old Albergs sailing around. It all depends on the individual boat. I've always bought used boats that were in the 15-25 yr old category. All were very good boats. If you are thinking of buying an "older" boat, arm yourself with research and a VERY good surveyor. Read, for example, Don Casey's "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat." Like people, some boats hold up better than others...but usually the ones that have had good maintenance do better than the ones that haven't been cared for. Good luck.
Boats consist of many things
mostly fiberglass, metal and cloth, with some wood thrown in. The older boats seem to be built a little thicker and the newer ones are cored with layers of some type of insulation. Be it foam,wood or some combination of each. Boats wear just like people. Some better than others. A good surveyer will know what to look for. Follow the surveyer and ask loads of questions. After all you are paying for it.Then with the information you get from the surveyer you can now do a survey of your own . All parts wear out eventually. Just knowing what to look for and how to spot it is one of the tricks you'll learn from your surveyer.Not all boats are the same. Some have bolted on keels and some have swing keels, yet others have encapsulated ones. Some masts are cabin mounted some are keel mounted.The wires holding the mast (stays)are mounted differantly also. Check them chainplates closely.Look for cracks in the fiberglass and soft spots in the fiberglass.Possible delamination and rot.Look at where the bulkheads(inside cabin walls)meet the ceiling and floor. Look for movement.Check for cracks along the stringers inside under the floor boards.Water stains running down the cabin walls just beneath the ports(windows).All older boats need things done to them whether its the standing rigging (wires holding the mast)or the running rigging (lines/ropes,pulleys).Check the age of electricial system and the age of the batteries. I could go on and on but I think you get the picture. When I bought my 1983 31 ft, I took everything off that wasn't bolted down and inspected everything . Repaired what I thought needed it .Then called a surveyer.He still spoted things that weren't on my to do list. They are now though.It's a labor of love. Good luck Keep it up, Ctskip
mostly fiberglass, metal and cloth, with some wood thrown in. The older boats seem to be built a little thicker and the newer ones are cored with layers of some type of insulation. Be it foam,wood or some combination of each. Boats wear just like people. Some better than others. A good surveyer will know what to look for. Follow the surveyer and ask loads of questions. After all you are paying for it.Then with the information you get from the surveyer you can now do a survey of your own . All parts wear out eventually. Just knowing what to look for and how to spot it is one of the tricks you'll learn from your surveyer.Not all boats are the same. Some have bolted on keels and some have swing keels, yet others have encapsulated ones. Some masts are cabin mounted some are keel mounted.The wires holding the mast (stays)are mounted differantly also. Check them chainplates closely.Look for cracks in the fiberglass and soft spots in the fiberglass.Possible delamination and rot.Look at where the bulkheads(inside cabin walls)meet the ceiling and floor. Look for movement.Check for cracks along the stringers inside under the floor boards.Water stains running down the cabin walls just beneath the ports(windows).All older boats need things done to them whether its the standing rigging (wires holding the mast)or the running rigging (lines/ropes,pulleys).Check the age of electricial system and the age of the batteries. I could go on and on but I think you get the picture. When I bought my 1983 31 ft, I took everything off that wasn't bolted down and inspected everything . Repaired what I thought needed it .Then called a surveyer.He still spoted things that weren't on my to do list. They are now though.It's a labor of love. Good luck Keep it up, Ctskip
Research the boat well
I am doing some boat research of my own now, and I have been learning that certain ages of boats are known to have certain traits. For example, I have learnt that the mid-80's Catalina boats tend to blister. In the later part of 1988, Catalina started a new process and that has lead to less blistering. Most of the older boats that I have been on are heavy. That is because they were overbuilt, as someone has already mentioned. Learn about the brand and the model of the boat that you are looking for. You will learn of the common problems that are experienced with that particular model (Example of the leaky cockpit drains in the Hunter 22 because of the design of the cockpit drains). I agree with another post that spoke of the maintenance on the boat. Would you rather have a 1988 O'Day that was never waxed, the wood was never maintained, the outboard is the original outboard, the sails are the original sails, Etc....or the 1975 O'day that was waxed once a year, new sails were added, a new outboard was added and maintained etc. That is a really easy question to answer... Just research and check around. Look long and hard at the boat that you are seeking. If the hull is in visibly good shape and the survey says the same...you are good to go!
I am doing some boat research of my own now, and I have been learning that certain ages of boats are known to have certain traits. For example, I have learnt that the mid-80's Catalina boats tend to blister. In the later part of 1988, Catalina started a new process and that has lead to less blistering. Most of the older boats that I have been on are heavy. That is because they were overbuilt, as someone has already mentioned. Learn about the brand and the model of the boat that you are looking for. You will learn of the common problems that are experienced with that particular model (Example of the leaky cockpit drains in the Hunter 22 because of the design of the cockpit drains). I agree with another post that spoke of the maintenance on the boat. Would you rather have a 1988 O'Day that was never waxed, the wood was never maintained, the outboard is the original outboard, the sails are the original sails, Etc....or the 1975 O'day that was waxed once a year, new sails were added, a new outboard was added and maintained etc. That is a really easy question to answer... Just research and check around. Look long and hard at the boat that you are seeking. If the hull is in visibly good shape and the survey says the same...you are good to go!
When I bought my 1968
I took EVERYTHING off and completely rebuilt the boat as from a bare hull. The surveyor asked what I had tried to accomplish and I told him that I wanted a long range blue water cruiser. When he finished he had found two faults, I hadn't placed a leak detection gauge in the propane line and there is no gun rack.
I took EVERYTHING off and completely rebuilt the boat as from a bare hull. The surveyor asked what I had tried to accomplish and I told him that I wanted a long range blue water cruiser. When he finished he had found two faults, I hadn't placed a leak detection gauge in the propane line and there is no gun rack.
Bigger Question
The bigger question for me is trying to figure out how to outlive my ten year old boat!
The bigger question for me is trying to figure out how to outlive my ten year old boat!
Hank, I reckon it sorta
depends on how old ya are and if ya don't get the anchor line tangled around yer foot. I figure if I outlive my boat then my kids can decide what they want to do with it, They don't much care for it. But that just keeps me from fussin about they way they leave it.
depends on how old ya are and if ya don't get the anchor line tangled around yer foot. I figure if I outlive my boat then my kids can decide what they want to do with it, They don't much care for it. But that just keeps me from fussin about they way they leave it.
too old?
my boat's a '67, just getting comfortable. old boats are fine, some new ones take far more tinkering and work to get them reliable, and for the most part they are just as good as the new ones. ken.
my boat's a '67, just getting comfortable. old boats are fine, some new ones take far more tinkering and work to get them reliable, and for the most part they are just as good as the new ones. ken.
Get a good survey....
JTK, Pay the three or four hundred for a good pre-purchase survey. If the surveyor finds no structural problems, go for it. My Bowman was launched in 1973 and, other than normal maintenance, I've had little trouble with her. In fact, I seem to have fewer problems with my old boat than my buddies have with their "newish" machines. As many posts say in this thread, initial construction and subsequent care make more reliable predictors of future value than age. Fair winds, Steve S/V Aurelia
JTK, Pay the three or four hundred for a good pre-purchase survey. If the surveyor finds no structural problems, go for it. My Bowman was launched in 1973 and, other than normal maintenance, I've had little trouble with her. In fact, I seem to have fewer problems with my old boat than my buddies have with their "newish" machines. As many posts say in this thread, initial construction and subsequent care make more reliable predictors of future value than age. Fair winds, Steve S/V Aurelia
Hard to Say
I remember reading an article several years ago about this very thing. Specifically, how long does fiberglass last? To make a long story short,they aquired several fiberglass boats approx 35 to 40 years old, chain-sawed them to death, sent samples to a laboratory, and not surprisingly concluded.......not quite sure how long it lasts, but fiberglass has a fairly long lifespan. Think of it this way, what are the 2 worse things in our environment? Well, it glass and plastic. Fiberglass is glass cloth and plastic resin. In Europe, fiberglass is called FRP, for Fiber Reinforced Plastic or GRP for Glass Reinforced Plastic. Anyway, it all boils down to the current condition of the boat, which will directly reflect past maintenance.Generally, an older boat like your 25 O'day would not warrant a survey due to the cost. Its not all that difficult to survey a boat yourself if you are at all familiar with sailboats. If not, try to find a friend to come with you. The most obvious would to start with taking the boat for a short run to make sure the OB Motor is good. Then check the sails to see if they feel at least a little bit crisp. If the canvas is soft, the sails are shot. Then for a more thorough inspection click on the link below. It is from a yachtbrokers website and gives information on how to inspect and what to look for. For the age you are looking at, any major problems may not be economically worth fixing. If you are not experienced in boat repairs, do a lot of reading first. Its easy to throw away money or make unsafe repairs. Also if you are tempted to take on a project, you must decide on whether you want to sail your boat or just work on it.
I remember reading an article several years ago about this very thing. Specifically, how long does fiberglass last? To make a long story short,they aquired several fiberglass boats approx 35 to 40 years old, chain-sawed them to death, sent samples to a laboratory, and not surprisingly concluded.......not quite sure how long it lasts, but fiberglass has a fairly long lifespan. Think of it this way, what are the 2 worse things in our environment? Well, it glass and plastic. Fiberglass is glass cloth and plastic resin. In Europe, fiberglass is called FRP, for Fiber Reinforced Plastic or GRP for Glass Reinforced Plastic. Anyway, it all boils down to the current condition of the boat, which will directly reflect past maintenance.Generally, an older boat like your 25 O'day would not warrant a survey due to the cost. Its not all that difficult to survey a boat yourself if you are at all familiar with sailboats. If not, try to find a friend to come with you. The most obvious would to start with taking the boat for a short run to make sure the OB Motor is good. Then check the sails to see if they feel at least a little bit crisp. If the canvas is soft, the sails are shot. Then for a more thorough inspection click on the link below. It is from a yachtbrokers website and gives information on how to inspect and what to look for. For the age you are looking at, any major problems may not be economically worth fixing. If you are not experienced in boat repairs, do a lot of reading first. Its easy to throw away money or make unsafe repairs. Also if you are tempted to take on a project, you must decide on whether you want to sail your boat or just work on it.
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