When 11 knots is really 25 knots

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ShawnL

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Jul 29, 2020
134
Catalina 22 3603 Calumet Mi
Yesterday I decided that since we went through all the trouble to launch this weekend and are on a mooring all season, I might as well take a day off and go sailing. It was supposed to be nice in the UP so my youngest (18) and his girlfriend came along.

Windy said the wind was at 11 knots. And flags in the area seemed to confirm this. So, we rowed to the boat, got the rigging set and headed out of the bay. Wow. this is not even close to 11 knots. There were whitecaps all over the lake and the wind had to be at least 20, maybe more. But, we went through the 10 minute drive to get here and got everything rigged... might as well at least try. We decide to forget the main, and just use the jib, even though we have 2 reefing points in the main, I felt it was just too windy to even try to hoist it.

So 110 jib only we sailed on a beam / broad reach for about an hour. Wandering around some, staying close to shore, but avoiding the shallows. Then it comes time to turn around. Simple, just tack back into the wind. Nope. Now it's blowing at least 25 (probably only 15-18 but felt like 25) and the waves are against us. No matter what we do, we can't seem to turn through the wind and get the jib on the other side. Hmm. Well, I guess we'll just run down wind and gybe, then the jib will be on the correct side and we'll just alter course accordingly. This worked for about 45 minutes, when we'd had enough of attempting to beat back into the wind, fired up the outboard and headed home. By now it felt like at least 25, maybe more. We were taking rollers and getting pretty wet in the cockpit.

Made it back safely and a good time was had by all. I guess that's what it's all about.... but it was nowhere near 11 knots. Not even close.
 
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pclarksurf

pclarksurf

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Jul 13, 2015
919
Catalina 22 #2552 2252 Kennewick, WA
Just did the very same on the Columbia River (exacerbated by current that never stops pulling you toward the ocean), and your experience is text book heavy weather tactics at least on our small boats.

Bottom line for me is that the C-22 Demands, even insists somewhat violently, to be balanced. With Jib alone in 15-20 you really can't tack -- not enough gas pedal to put the boat through the eye of the wind. Perfect response by the way-- jybe your way home, but as you noted it's a giant PITA and hard sloppy sailing at best-- the iron genoa was your best choice.

Solution ? you had me at double reef. Take that deep double slab and put up the smallest Jib you own and I would argue that 110 at some point is too big. I carry a 75 storm jib and love it when I want to sit up straight and not fight the elements.

Simplest answer is all things in equal measurements-- your rudder and keel fixed-- you counter increasing winds by reducing both main and headsail equally to counter. And at some point-- game over, time to get back to the dock.
 
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Will Gilmore

Will Gilmore

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Oct 19, 2017
7,801
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
pclarksurf said:
Bottom line for me is that the C-22 Demands, even insists somewhat violently, to be balanced.
Click to expand
Not just the C-22. Had similar expriences with my Hobie. Launched when reported winds were 35 knots. Because the Hobie 18 has a ring and hook arrangement at the peak of the sail and top of the mast, I couldn't get the main to hoist in the high winds. The wind kept the ring from finding the hook By blowing it away from the mast so I couldn't get the sail to stay up.

After nearly blowing down on the bridge that lead out of the bay, I gave up on setting the main and concentrated on getting back to the ramp. I had to use the anchor to keep off the bridge and bring us about.

Always have an anchor, even in a Hobie Cat.

-Will
 
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ShawnL

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Jul 29, 2020
134
Catalina 22 3603 Calumet Mi
The 110 was really too large. I'll have to look for something smaller. I need to work on (practice) setting the main with a double reef already in place (as opposed to reefing underway). Things were nautical enough that I really didn't want to go stand at the mast to deal with it at the time if I didn't have to. I have my lines lead aft, but have an old-school main sail with a bolt-rope. So, still need to go up and feed it into the track in the mast.
 
RoyS

RoyS

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Jun 3, 2012
1,742
Hunter 33 Steamboat Wharf, Hull, MA
Years ago had a similar experience. I was sailing a 27' and the wind and seas were giving me a battle. Barely keeping the boat on course and not enjoying the experience. In the midst of this a 40 footer or so comes along and passes us about 20' off our starboard side. On board that boat the people in the cockpit were drinking out of stemmed glasses and passing hors d'oeuvres around, everyone smiling and chatting. Realized that I needed a bigger boat.
 
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shemandr

shemandr

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Jan 1, 2006
7,364
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
Forecasts will often say winds 10 to 20 knots. That's a big range for sailors! You have to interpret that wind range as "Moderate." And it is usually the gradient wind. The gradient wind can be modified by local conditions quite a bit. There may be a shore breeze added or subtracted. Harbors may have a Venturi affect increasing the wind in narrowed areas or there can be frontal changes.

.
 
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Gene Neill

Gene Neill

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Sep 30, 2013
3,560
1988 Catalina 22 North Florida
GREAT post, well done! :thumbup:

You'll like having a 75 jib for days like that. And if you find a deal on a storm jib, I'd grab that too. There comes a point when you can't sail to windward, especially with waves involved, since the small canvas doesn't provide enough power. But with your double reefed main and the right jib, you can have fun in weather that sends other boats back to the dock!

showoff.jpg
 
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pclarksurf

pclarksurf

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Jul 13, 2015
919
Catalina 22 #2552 2252 Kennewick, WA
Was goofing around with the 75 last summer-- didn't know if I could hove to with such a small headsail-- but you definitely can. Very adaptable sail when you want to slow the world down.

Actually working on installing a new reef hook this weekend - while it's probably easier to start the day from the dock with the reef set on the main -- definitely worth your while getting comfortable both setting and shaking the reef. Everything manual on my boat -- so I get to enjoy dong the foredeck work while the admiral keeps the helm steady.

IMG_2795.jpg
 
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S

ShawnL

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Jul 29, 2020
134
Catalina 22 3603 Calumet Mi
My question is, for those of you that don't have sail slugs, how do you keep the main from thrashing around when you're trying to set it in that much wind -- even turned directly into it. I'm on a mooring in a protected harbor with a fairly shallow entrance, so I have to motor out with the keel up, then turn into the wind and hoist. I didn't really want to motor out with the sails, and the keel up.

The only reason I could really hoist the jib in those conditions was that I have the jib halyard lead back to the cockpit. So I was able to pull it up quickly, though it kept trying to furl itself on the fore stay as I did it -- almost felt like I had a furler. I would have attempted to get the main up, but even directly into the wind everything was just flogging.
 
Gene Neill

Gene Neill

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Sep 30, 2013
3,560
1988 Catalina 22 North Florida
pclarksurf said:
Was goofing around with the 75 last summer-- didn't know if I could hove to with such a small headsail-- but you definitely can.
Click to expand
You can heave to under just the main if you want to. Comes in real handy for headsail changes in heavier air. The bow points toward the wind, rather than the stern, and your drift is slower.
 
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pclarksurf

pclarksurf

.
Jul 13, 2015
919
Catalina 22 #2552 2252 Kennewick, WA
ShawnL said:
My question is, for those of you that don't have sail slugs, how do you keep the main from thrashing around when you're trying to set it in that much wind -- even turned directly into it. I'm on a mooring in a protected harbor with a fairly shallow entrance, so I have to motor out with the keel up, then turn into the wind and hoist. I didn't really want to motor out with the sails, and the keel up.

The only reason I could really hoist the jib in those conditions was that I have the jib halyard lead back to the cockpit. So I was able to pull it up quickly, though it kept trying to furl itself on the fore stay as I did it -- almost felt like I had a furler. I would have attempted to get the main up, but even directly into the wind everything was just flogging.
Click to expand
Gene Neill said:
You can heave to under just the main if you want to
Click to expand
so set the main and oppose the direction with the tiller ? I must try this !
 
Gene Neill

Gene Neill

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Sep 30, 2013
3,560
1988 Catalina 22 North Florida
pclarksurf said:
so set the main and oppose the direction with the tiller ? I must try this !
Click to expand
Yep! Tiller to leeward same as always. For the record, I think I have only done it while reefed or double reefed.

You can see it working in this video around the 2:50 mark:
 
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