While leaving the dock this afternoon, cut the wheel hard to port, there was a "pop" and the wheel began spinning freely. I lost all rudder control. Many kind folks were available and came to our aid and had us safely back in our slip after a while. Back in the slip we realized that the wheel/rudder still worked but now the rudder would turn completely perpendicular to the stern AND you could continue to turn the wheel to no end (whereas prior to, the wheel would come to a stop about 1.5 turns past the centerline). I don't even know where to start to look for the issue. Any pointers would be appreciated OR is this a job for the yard to tackle. Thanks.
Wheel/rudder issue
- Thread starter Eric14428
- Start date
- Status
Boat Viagra..
..it sounds like the Rudder Stock (the metal tube that runs down into the rudder) has broken loose and or delaminated from the foam or wood thats inside of it.Its hard to tell for sure just from what you've written but,that is my first guess.If the wheel was hard over and you were going backwards at any kind of speed there was alot of stress on the rudder and its componants and it gave way.The best thing to do is haul the boat and look it all over..this will tell you the extent of the problem. Before you do that..look at the steering mechanism..especially the round wheel mounted on the rudder stock above the stuffing box..have someone turn the wheel while you look at that part..you can even hold it and see that it turns properly.If so,try turning the the rudder post by hand while someone holds onto the wheel..you should'nt be able to move it..if you can your problem is here..if not,its below the water line.There are previous posts about how to build a new rudder on the Forum,if you can work with wood and do some fiberglass work its not too difficult..if you cannot..get ready for a hefty yard bill. Good Luck..get back with more details and more advice/help will come here in the forum. Fair Winds>>David
..it sounds like the Rudder Stock (the metal tube that runs down into the rudder) has broken loose and or delaminated from the foam or wood thats inside of it.Its hard to tell for sure just from what you've written but,that is my first guess.If the wheel was hard over and you were going backwards at any kind of speed there was alot of stress on the rudder and its componants and it gave way.The best thing to do is haul the boat and look it all over..this will tell you the extent of the problem. Before you do that..look at the steering mechanism..especially the round wheel mounted on the rudder stock above the stuffing box..have someone turn the wheel while you look at that part..you can even hold it and see that it turns properly.If so,try turning the the rudder post by hand while someone holds onto the wheel..you should'nt be able to move it..if you can your problem is here..if not,its below the water line.There are previous posts about how to build a new rudder on the Forum,if you can work with wood and do some fiberglass work its not too difficult..if you cannot..get ready for a hefty yard bill. Good Luck..get back with more details and more advice/help will come here in the forum. Fair Winds>>David
First things first
Lancerdude has some good ideas and the best one is to climb below and observe the behavior of the cables, the quadrant, and the blocks that are part of the system. The problem may be very obvious, and I would guess your answer will come with this examination. As Lanceridude said, do this before you pull the boat. If you can't see what is going on with your trip under the cockpit, I would hire someone to come aboard and diagnose before I pulled. If you end up having to pull the boat out - the $100 to have someone look it over beforehand is not going to matter much.
Lancerdude has some good ideas and the best one is to climb below and observe the behavior of the cables, the quadrant, and the blocks that are part of the system. The problem may be very obvious, and I would guess your answer will come with this examination. As Lanceridude said, do this before you pull the boat. If you can't see what is going on with your trip under the cockpit, I would hire someone to come aboard and diagnose before I pulled. If you end up having to pull the boat out - the $100 to have someone look it over beforehand is not going to matter much.
More info ...
1982 Catalina 27. The round wheel attached to the rudder stock moves with the cockpit wheel. When the round wheel stops, the rudder is perpendicular to the stern, BUT the cockpit wheel can still be turned indefinietly. As far as I can tell the cables seem intact. If you place the emergency tiller on, the rudder seems to work fine. Thoughts? Thanks.
1982 Catalina 27. The round wheel attached to the rudder stock moves with the cockpit wheel. When the round wheel stops, the rudder is perpendicular to the stern, BUT the cockpit wheel can still be turned indefinietly. As far as I can tell the cables seem intact. If you place the emergency tiller on, the rudder seems to work fine. Thoughts? Thanks.
Check sprocket in the pedestal
It's possible that the sprocket in the steering pedestal has sheered a pin or key, or whatever keeps it from turning on the shaft. Take a look inside the pedestal and observe the chain/sprocket while you turn the wheel. If the wheel and shaft turn, but the sprocket and chain don't ... then there you go! The steering gear is pretty simple. The hardest part is getting a look at all of it while you work the steering. Let us know what you discover.
It's possible that the sprocket in the steering pedestal has sheered a pin or key, or whatever keeps it from turning on the shaft. Take a look inside the pedestal and observe the chain/sprocket while you turn the wheel. If the wheel and shaft turn, but the sprocket and chain don't ... then there you go! The steering gear is pretty simple. The hardest part is getting a look at all of it while you work the steering. Let us know what you discover.
It may be turning the chain drive sprocket
through friction, but slipping when under load if a key has sheared off. Since you can turn the rudder allthe way perpendicular, it does sound as though a stop has failed on the quadrant on the rudder shaft. Try holding the rudder with the emergency tiller (lash it straight) and then try turning the wheel...where does the slip take place? Good luck!
through friction, but slipping when under load if a key has sheared off. Since you can turn the rudder allthe way perpendicular, it does sound as though a stop has failed on the quadrant on the rudder shaft. Try holding the rudder with the emergency tiller (lash it straight) and then try turning the wheel...where does the slip take place? Good luck!
Two problems?
Perhaps a stop failed long ago, and that you've been over-ruddering for quite some time now, putting undue stress on everything. The sheared off keyway sounds possible..try marking "up" on the wheel with the rudder centered, then give it a whirl and come back to center, see where it is?
Perhaps a stop failed long ago, and that you've been over-ruddering for quite some time now, putting undue stress on everything. The sheared off keyway sounds possible..try marking "up" on the wheel with the rudder centered, then give it a whirl and come back to center, see where it is?
broken bolt thru the quadrant
I think you'll find there is a bolt that passes thru the quadrant and thru the rudder stock that keys the two together. I don't think there is a motor shaft type 'key'. Sounds as is if that bolt may have broken. The emergency tiller would work fine and still be centered. The wheel would still turn the quadrant and, due to friction, still turn the rudder but they would not be 'keyed' together in an exact relationship. And the rudder could move past the stop as the stop is part of the quadrant, not the rudder or rudder stock. Likely a fairly easy fix if your a little guy with double joints who likes small places.
I think you'll find there is a bolt that passes thru the quadrant and thru the rudder stock that keys the two together. I don't think there is a motor shaft type 'key'. Sounds as is if that bolt may have broken. The emergency tiller would work fine and still be centered. The wheel would still turn the quadrant and, due to friction, still turn the rudder but they would not be 'keyed' together in an exact relationship. And the rudder could move past the stop as the stop is part of the quadrant, not the rudder or rudder stock. Likely a fairly easy fix if your a little guy with double joints who likes small places.
There is a Drive Pin that secures the sprocket
Actually, there is a "drive pin" (Edson's term) that prevents the chain sprocket from spinning on the wheel shaft. They also show a key in some drawings. It's shown on page 8/10 of the Edson Pedestal Steerer Installation Guide (www.edsonmarine.com) It seems likely that the pin or key has sheered or is missing. That would explain how the rudder could be turned simply due to friction while not under much of a load, but would also allow the wheel to be turned indefinitely since the shaft could turn without moving the rudder once it had stopped against something/anything. If the bolt that penetrates the steering radial had sheered, it seems that you couldn't turn the wheel once the cables had reached their limit of travel. Just my two-cents worth after spending an eternity messing with my steering system. Heck, I'll bet a beer it's a sheered drive pin and/or missking key on the chain drive sprocket. Should be an easy fix if it turns out to be that.
Actually, there is a "drive pin" (Edson's term) that prevents the chain sprocket from spinning on the wheel shaft. They also show a key in some drawings. It's shown on page 8/10 of the Edson Pedestal Steerer Installation Guide (www.edsonmarine.com) It seems likely that the pin or key has sheered or is missing. That would explain how the rudder could be turned simply due to friction while not under much of a load, but would also allow the wheel to be turned indefinitely since the shaft could turn without moving the rudder once it had stopped against something/anything. If the bolt that penetrates the steering radial had sheered, it seems that you couldn't turn the wheel once the cables had reached their limit of travel. Just my two-cents worth after spending an eternity messing with my steering system. Heck, I'll bet a beer it's a sheered drive pin and/or missking key on the chain drive sprocket. Should be an easy fix if it turns out to be that.
steering loss
the first i would do is as gary avove said. pull your compass off the pedestal and check your drive sprocket to wheel shaft. if the roll pin has sheared and you keep turning the wheel what will happen is you will scoreyou wheel shaft and damage it.! then i would go down below and see what is happening there and go step by step from there. sometimes it is the easiest things that are over looked for more serious probs. how ever if your rudder goes all the way over as you descibe you definately also have issues below. good luck
the first i would do is as gary avove said. pull your compass off the pedestal and check your drive sprocket to wheel shaft. if the roll pin has sheared and you keep turning the wheel what will happen is you will scoreyou wheel shaft and damage it.! then i would go down below and see what is happening there and go step by step from there. sometimes it is the easiest things that are over looked for more serious probs. how ever if your rudder goes all the way over as you descibe you definately also have issues below. good luck
Should be an easy fix
You will need to get access to your steering radial (often called a quadrant) the wheel that's affixed to the rudder shaft and which causes it to turn. Edson typically provides adjustable links where the cables attach to the radial. You can just loosen them, put the chain back onto the sprocket, tighten them up again (but not too tight) and "Bob's your Uncle" as they say. The suggestion to check Edson's website is a good one. They have lots of info. re: their systems. If you still need help, they have superb customer service ... just give 'em call. Best wishes for a quick, easy and inexpensive fix. Gary
You will need to get access to your steering radial (often called a quadrant) the wheel that's affixed to the rudder shaft and which causes it to turn. Edson typically provides adjustable links where the cables attach to the radial. You can just loosen them, put the chain back onto the sprocket, tighten them up again (but not too tight) and "Bob's your Uncle" as they say. The suggestion to check Edson's website is a good one. They have lots of info. re: their systems. If you still need help, they have superb customer service ... just give 'em call. Best wishes for a quick, easy and inexpensive fix. Gary
- Status