I'm thinking hard about putting an Edson 25 inch wheel on my boat and taking off the tiller. Has anyone made the switch before on a 25?
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Wheel steering for transom-hung rudder?
I don't know anyone who has made that conversion. There are a few issues that come to mind immediately: the first is how you would control a transom-hung rudder with a wheel. Wheel steering is generally done with a pulley and cable system; the rudder is controlled by the attachment of the cables to a quadrant that is mounted to the top of the rudder post, which is itself below decks within the shell of the hull. However, there is no rudder post on the Oday 25. Alternately, instead of a quadrant, the steering cables could be attached to a tiller. However, since your goal is to rid the cockpit of the tiller, this solution doesn't really work. The only solution that comes to mind is to reconfigure your rudder such that the tiller is attached to the rudder BELOW the level of the cockpit floor. This would bring the tiller through the transom (via a new hole) into the spacious lazarette, where it would be easy to hook up to a wheel steering cable system. Of course, you would need to figure out a way to keep water from coming into the new tiller access slot during rough weather (flexible gasket?). Assuming you can figure out a way to control the rudder, I think you would also need to beef up the cockpit floor; it wasn't designed to take the stresses inherent in wheel steering. Having said all that, this is a lot of work for little benefit. IMHO, if you really want wheel steering, buy a boat with wheel steering. For my money, tiller steering on a boat that size is one of the primary benefits: greater feel and response than wheel steering. Plus, the cockpit is already small enough; putting a wheel in there will leave even less room for you and your guests. At least with a tiller, you can lift it out of the way entirely at dock or anchor. If you are finding that the tiller interferes with your fellow sailors' knees, install a curved model. You will be amazed at the difference. Another benefit: a new curved tiller costs about $80 and can be installed in about three minutes. Good luck.
I don't know anyone who has made that conversion. There are a few issues that come to mind immediately: the first is how you would control a transom-hung rudder with a wheel. Wheel steering is generally done with a pulley and cable system; the rudder is controlled by the attachment of the cables to a quadrant that is mounted to the top of the rudder post, which is itself below decks within the shell of the hull. However, there is no rudder post on the Oday 25. Alternately, instead of a quadrant, the steering cables could be attached to a tiller. However, since your goal is to rid the cockpit of the tiller, this solution doesn't really work. The only solution that comes to mind is to reconfigure your rudder such that the tiller is attached to the rudder BELOW the level of the cockpit floor. This would bring the tiller through the transom (via a new hole) into the spacious lazarette, where it would be easy to hook up to a wheel steering cable system. Of course, you would need to figure out a way to keep water from coming into the new tiller access slot during rough weather (flexible gasket?). Assuming you can figure out a way to control the rudder, I think you would also need to beef up the cockpit floor; it wasn't designed to take the stresses inherent in wheel steering. Having said all that, this is a lot of work for little benefit. IMHO, if you really want wheel steering, buy a boat with wheel steering. For my money, tiller steering on a boat that size is one of the primary benefits: greater feel and response than wheel steering. Plus, the cockpit is already small enough; putting a wheel in there will leave even less room for you and your guests. At least with a tiller, you can lift it out of the way entirely at dock or anchor. If you are finding that the tiller interferes with your fellow sailors' knees, install a curved model. You will be amazed at the difference. Another benefit: a new curved tiller costs about $80 and can be installed in about three minutes. Good luck.
Would not do it .
Jonathan, Edson and others make wheels that will work. The 272 (also a transom hung rudder)have an edson wheels. I like using my boat. I don't just sail, I like to fish, motor etc. On a HOT windless day with more than two on board, the wheel would hinder the cockpit so much that I would not even consider it. I think the whell is a bit tight on the 272. My opinion is wheels are for 30 and up. It is like buying a sports car with power steering and an automatic.
Jonathan, Edson and others make wheels that will work. The 272 (also a transom hung rudder)have an edson wheels. I like using my boat. I don't just sail, I like to fish, motor etc. On a HOT windless day with more than two on board, the wheel would hinder the cockpit so much that I would not even consider it. I think the whell is a bit tight on the 272. My opinion is wheels are for 30 and up. It is like buying a sports car with power steering and an automatic.
RW, how does it work on the 272?
R.W.: How does the wheel control the transom-hung rudder on the 272? As you can see from my earlier post, I am having trouble envisioning the solution to this problem. I looked at the info for the 272 on this site and found that with one exception, all of the pictures for that boat show it set up for tiller steering. For the one 272 that appeared to have a wheel, the view in the picture was not adequate to determine how it was set up. Not that I am thinking of setting up a wheel for my Oday 23, but I am interested nonetheless in the engineering solution. Thanks for teaching me something!
R.W.: How does the wheel control the transom-hung rudder on the 272? As you can see from my earlier post, I am having trouble envisioning the solution to this problem. I looked at the info for the 272 on this site and found that with one exception, all of the pictures for that boat show it set up for tiller steering. For the one 272 that appeared to have a wheel, the view in the picture was not adequate to determine how it was set up. Not that I am thinking of setting up a wheel for my Oday 23, but I am interested nonetheless in the engineering solution. Thanks for teaching me something!
The visible components
The photo shows what's visible in the wheel-driven steering assembly on my 272LE -- a kind of rocker arm that swings the rudder one way or the other. The part I can't show you is what's below the cockpit well to connect the wheel itself to the rocker arm. I've never had a problem with the steering on "EmmyLou," so I've not had occasion to go looking below deck at the rest of the steering assembly. Hopefully the photo will be of some use. As for the wheel taking up too much space in the cockpit, I'd say that's probably a matter of personal preference, especially if it's a fairly small diameter wheel. After all, the swing of a tiller can eat up room pretty quickly too. Pete
The photo shows what's visible in the wheel-driven steering assembly on my 272LE -- a kind of rocker arm that swings the rudder one way or the other. The part I can't show you is what's below the cockpit well to connect the wheel itself to the rocker arm. I've never had a problem with the steering on "EmmyLou," so I've not had occasion to go looking below deck at the rest of the steering assembly. Hopefully the photo will be of some use. As for the wheel taking up too much space in the cockpit, I'd say that's probably a matter of personal preference, especially if it's a fairly small diameter wheel. After all, the swing of a tiller can eat up room pretty quickly too. Pete
Oops -- forgot the pic
I must've posted the reply before including the photo. Here it is. (And for what it's worth, the rocker arm attaches to the starboard side of the rudder, which is just out of the photo to the left.) Pete
I must've posted the reply before including the photo. Here it is. (And for what it's worth, the rocker arm attaches to the starboard side of the rudder, which is just out of the photo to the left.) Pete
wheel on a transomhung rudder
Mike, I think it is a cable through a sleeve assembly (like hand brakes on a bike)similar to what is used for steering on an outboard motor. The sleeve is fixed and the cable has rod end to transfer the motion. I am not sure of that but that is my guess. r.w.landau
Mike, I think it is a cable through a sleeve assembly (like hand brakes on a bike)similar to what is used for steering on an outboard motor. The sleeve is fixed and the cable has rod end to transfer the motion. I am not sure of that but that is my guess. r.w.landau
Remote Linear Actuator
The O'Day 272 (and 272 LE, and 280) used an EDSON Remote Lineat Actuator wheel steering set-up. The RLA was developed specifically to meet the requirements of O'Day for the 272. The RLA was later offered by EDSON to other boatbuilders as well as to owneras that wished to install one as an aftermarket upgrade. The RLA uses a standard chain & cable wheel pedestal (same as those used for an inboard rudder), but the quadrant is connected inside a metal frame to the arm that sticks out through the transom as seen in the picture of the 272. The cables are run to the quadrant through conduits (similar to the cable on a bike) with one conduit for each cable (it is a "pull-pull" system, same as inboard rudder steerer). The arm on the RLA connects to the rudder with a drag-link, as arm on RLA moves, it pushes or pulls the rudder. This system has in fact been installed on at least one O'Day 23 (1978 model, I think) and the project was the subject of an article in SAIL magazine in the summer of 1987. EDSON, as well as other companies does offer a small-boat steerer that uses a "push-pull" cable like those used on a powerboat steering system (Teleflex is one powerboat steering company), the EDSON version uses a short tiller that is attached to the rudder and fits through a hole in the transom to hook up to the cable. The other companies used a cable that exited out through a slot in the transom and hooked up to the rudder, cable would turn the rudder just like turning an outboard motor. EDSON also has a system for boats too big for a RLA that uses a quadrant attached to a short tiller that passes through the transom to bolt to the rudder. I don't work for EDSON, I'm just familiar with their products (Wouldn't mind getting a job there though!)
The O'Day 272 (and 272 LE, and 280) used an EDSON Remote Lineat Actuator wheel steering set-up. The RLA was developed specifically to meet the requirements of O'Day for the 272. The RLA was later offered by EDSON to other boatbuilders as well as to owneras that wished to install one as an aftermarket upgrade. The RLA uses a standard chain & cable wheel pedestal (same as those used for an inboard rudder), but the quadrant is connected inside a metal frame to the arm that sticks out through the transom as seen in the picture of the 272. The cables are run to the quadrant through conduits (similar to the cable on a bike) with one conduit for each cable (it is a "pull-pull" system, same as inboard rudder steerer). The arm on the RLA connects to the rudder with a drag-link, as arm on RLA moves, it pushes or pulls the rudder. This system has in fact been installed on at least one O'Day 23 (1978 model, I think) and the project was the subject of an article in SAIL magazine in the summer of 1987. EDSON, as well as other companies does offer a small-boat steerer that uses a "push-pull" cable like those used on a powerboat steering system (Teleflex is one powerboat steering company), the EDSON version uses a short tiller that is attached to the rudder and fits through a hole in the transom to hook up to the cable. The other companies used a cable that exited out through a slot in the transom and hooked up to the rudder, cable would turn the rudder just like turning an outboard motor. EDSON also has a system for boats too big for a RLA that uses a quadrant attached to a short tiller that passes through the transom to bolt to the rudder. I don't work for EDSON, I'm just familiar with their products (Wouldn't mind getting a job there though!)
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