wheel auto pilot, only one?

Nov 9, 2008
115
Pearson 323 Bayfield
Searching for a wheel auto pilot I can find only Raymarine. Have all the others dropped out of the competition? Is so, why. What is it about the above deck auto pilot/helm that drives manufacturers the other way? Am I missing something? (I did find one other, CPT, which will drive to a compass heading only and looks like it has not changed since the late '50s. Is it a viable instrument?)

We (wife and me) are not adventuresome sailors. We sail for pleasure, meaning we avoid bad weather and rough seas when possible. Our sailing grounds always have a protected bay/cove with in reach. I want an auto helm for ease of cruising the Apostle Islands and western Lake Superior. Is there any reason I should think of a below deck autopilot?

Geoff
 
Apr 8, 2010
2,238
Ericson Yachts Olson 34 28400 Portland OR
As far as I can see, and with some research reported over on the ericson owners' site, the CPT is a viable choice. It lacks networking capabilities, but seems to be a great example of "mature technology", i.e. built like a truck.
Raymarine seems to get owner reports that vary widely, and with no equivalent competition they have little incentive to get any better. I have had trouble with mine, and their warranty reply, after testing it when our dealer sent it in, is to tell me that there's nothing wrong with it...
Sheesh....

If you have a way to acquire an extended warranty either from Raymarine or your vendor, by all means do so.

Loren
 

capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
5,072
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
I assume you mean a below deck autopilot, by wheel? If so, there are quite a few out there; Furuno, Simrad, just to name 2.
I'd keep my distance from most Raymarine products, the ST 60 series gear excepted. I've had very poor customer support and technical assistance from them on both their yacht and commercial electronics.
 

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
7,090
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
I assume you mean a below deck autopilot, by wheel?
I believe the OP means above-deck, since he says "above-deck," and asks if he should consider a below deck as an alternative. :)
 

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
7,090
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Searching for a wheel auto pilot I can find only Raymarine. Have all the others dropped out of the competition? Is so, why. What is it about the above deck auto pilot/helm that drives manufacturers the other way? Am I missing something? (I did find one other, CPT, which will drive to a compass heading only and looks like it has not changed since the late '50s. Is it a viable instrument?)

We (wife and me) are not adventuresome sailors. We sail for pleasure, meaning we avoid bad weather and rough seas when possible. Our sailing grounds always have a protected bay/cove with in reach. I want an auto helm for ease of cruising the Apostle Islands and western Lake Superior. Is there any reason I should think of a below deck autopilot?

Geoff
It is an interesting question, and I have wondered myself why this niche has been abandoned. I think part of the reason is that there are so many advantages to a below decks pilot, and those seeking an above-decks system do so out of frugality, that it leaves little margin for profit.

Consider that the Raymarine X-5 corepack is $1295 (MAP) plus ST70 multifunction display for $519 (MAP), total $1814, and you install it yourself.

Then consider that a good linear drive is about the price of that entire system - $1800 for Raymarine. Add the "corepack" and display, a bronze tiller arm ($430), and a much more challenging installation, and you are several times the cost of a wheel pilot.

Driving the boat via the wheel in an ergonomic, attractive package that is onwer-installable is a challenging product design undertaking.

Yet, the wheel pilot is expected to perform nearly as well in most of the same conditions.

And, there are several advantages to a below decks pilot. First, these are generally more powerful, and will drive the boat in conditions the wheel pilot will not. Second, but perhaps most important, the below decks pilot provides a backup to the wheel-driven steering system, nearly complete steering redundancy, in the event of a cable or other wheel steering component failure. It is more reliable; I think a below decks system is less mechanically complex, with fewer vulnerabilities than a wheel pilot. And finally, it is out of the way - no unsightly wheel steering components.

But all of this comes at a fairly large price differential.

The only thing I miss from my wheel pilot is the very convenient wheel-lock feature of using the pilot clutch as a wheel lock. There is no way that I know of via the provided interface of locking the linear drive clutch without engaging "Auto" mode. I have considered hot-wiring this, adding a switch to the clutch circuit, but this would consume electrical power, where the wheel clutch did not. Now that I've rebuilt my pedestal brake it's less of an issue. Oh, and I also miss the convenient "double press" of "AUTO" to resume the previous heading. The new pilot has resume, but it's less convenient to access.
 
Jul 1, 2010
990
Catalina 350 Port Huron
I think you're right that there are only 2 wheel pilots to choose from these days. It's too bad the older Simrads are no longer made as they were on the lower end of the price point, and would be fine for what you want to do. We have a Simrad WP10 on our boat and, though not ideal, works fine when we want to use it.

When ours finally craps out, I'll probably replace it with the CPT unit. I like the simplicity of being able to just move a dial to adjust for sea state and conditions, rather than getting lost in a menu with a more electronic unit. The fact that it can't be tied into gps really doesn't make much difference to me. That's what checking and adjusting your course is all about anyway. It seems anytime I want to head straight for a particular point, the wind doesn't quite cooperate and I end up having to work a little to get there.
 
Nov 9, 2008
115
Pearson 323 Bayfield
Thanks, everyone, for the advice. It sounds like I should revisit the CPT consideration. I also have had some problems with Raymarine customer support, sometimes nonexistent, once antagonistic, like I was interfering with his important work, whatever that was. It was obvious I was not important to Raymarine. Not sure yet what I'll do; not ready to jump for 4k+ the below deck would cost but really would like to have the 3d hand to steer. Would also like, when motoring, to follow a route.

Thanks for your help.

Geoff
 

FB111A

.
May 4, 2013
36
Pacific Seacraft Crealock34 Belfast, Maine
I had a Garmin below deck installed in my PSC 34 last year and it really makes Singlehanding much easier. It might be the best 4grand you could spend on the boat and your enjoyment. As was previously stated the ability of the system to steer the boat if your wheel chain or cables fail is a bonus.
 

zeehag

.
Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
i have hydraulic autopilot by simrad--is the hdl 2000. mounted on quadrant is reliable and energy efficient.
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
8,318
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
If you do a lot of motor sailing an auto pilot is beyond necessary for sailing shorthanded.... however, if you want it primarily for help under sail, and you're even considering spending the 4k for the under deck system.... then it may be time to look at a windvane...with an inexpensive tiller pilot to control the servo when motor sailing or sailing in very light air. Here's one called "Norvane" http://www.selfsteering.com/Introduction.asp

This is a servo pendulum device.... regarding integration with a tiller pilot, here is an excerpt from the "how it works" page that may give you some insight into my proposal?
If there is little or no wind and it becomes necessary to motor sail, a small, inexpensive, electronic tiller pilot can be attached between the push-pit handrail and the NORVANE foil holder. With this arrangement the energy required to steer the boat will then come from the NORVANE servo-rudder passing through the water and not from the ship’s batteries.
 

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
7,090
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
i have hydraulic autopilot by simrad--is the hdl 2000. mounted on quadrant is reliable and energy efficient.
Given that the HLD2000 is a linear drive only - what pilot do you have driving it?
 

zeehag

.
Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
it is a full system which functions perfectly with or without wind. it is 100 percent accurate and ¡awesome. is all simrad. it is old. it is awesome and it keeps me from having to have extra crew if i dont want that.
it was a 15000usd YES, 15 THOUSAND usd unit with fluxgate comapass and other boxes inside bpoat cabin''it is powered by electric assist and works perfect--i need NO other pilot or drive unit. an ap16 is a power control head which is set in cockpit at binnacle. all of it is SIMRAD, and ei couldnt be happier! i do not have to futz with strings in my cockpit nor adjustments of stuffies in my way -- i have an entire cockpit in which to fish, read, walk around or whatever i want it for. the unit i smounted onmy quadrant so i have alternative steering in case my steering cable snaps or jumps of f track, which it did once on my way into marina...life with this unit is very vwery goood''it is extremely pricey and is one reason why i wanted this particular boat. the unit was more bux than what i paid for boat. i am glad it is here, as it is awesome perfect.
 
Apr 8, 2010
2,238
Ericson Yachts Olson 34 28400 Portland OR
CPT sighting

Not sure if the thread is getting too "old" for more commentary, but we are cruising Puget Sound and just spoke with a happy owner of a new CPT autopilot. This is on a Wauquiez Pretorien 35. He sez it seems to cope with the heavy displacement of the boat with no problems.

He likes the simplicity. A lot.
Its control box can set the course and vary the 'dead band', and that covers all of the basics. He dealt with the builder and was told that they sell somewhere over a hundred of them a year.

Considering the value of 'word of mouth' (and some positive comments on the 'net) that may be a large part of their promotion efforts. (!)
Zero comparison with the promo $$ of Raymarine.

He has modern digital radar and a plotter, but prefers the simplicity of the CPT unit.
We have never had Any need to "integrate" out Raymarine wheel pilot with any other instruments, and doubt that we ever will.
He sez that he sees no reason to even want such additional electronic capabilities either.

No major epiphany here, just another data point, as they say.

Loren
 

zeehag

.
Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
i thought simrad had something other than hydraulic pilots... did ye try simrad