What would you do?

Scott · May 20, 2008

dyi

Don,Lots of good ideas out there. Get a dremel tool and start out small to see what you're dealing with. When you see the "real problem" by starting with a small dremel bit, you'll probably want to use the good ideas offered. It ain't "rocket science."

Ross · May 20, 2008

Never heard of Aiken. For boat work a Dremel tool is a toy

I wouldn't let that fiberglass repairman set foot on my boat. Get the books I suggested or go to the public library and see what they have on the shelves.

CalebD · May 20, 2008

Do Yourself It or DIY

Don, If you were nearer to me I would come up and help/encourage you. I think that you have been given pretty good advice by the local fiberglass (FRP - fiberglass reinforced plastic) guy you spoke to as well as by all others here. I personally like the West System epoxy stuff and they have a very good manual which is available on-line here: http://www.westsystem.com/webpages/userinfo/manual/If you go the route of putting in a big backing plate you should really check (as Ross or someone suggested) the underside to make sure it is not also cracked. If it is then 3M 4200 may be a little light for the job. 3M makes 5200 and there is also Marine Tex white epoxy paste which is good for emergency repairs (I know I will get some flak for mentioning 5200 and probably Marine Tex too as they are considered PERMANENT and very hard to sand or shape once cured). I would use only the 4200 (more like a caulk and easier to remove/shape) to bed your backing plate and NOT the 5200 (which would be used to repair the crack after you open it up some with the Dremel tool already suggested.I am only suggesting these products as you have little experience using marine epoxy and I would use West epoxy and cloth if it were my boat (it would take longer but probably end up being stronger and look better). If you do get the West (or other) epoxy be sure to coat your backing plate with a thinnish coat of it. It really is not that hard to work with once you understand some of the basics. Read the West manual link above.A 'professional' repair job will cost you more than you want to spend and you could learn a lot just by trying and still save money now and in the future.BTW, you can build a mold for an epoxy repair using a scrap of 1/8" luan or other plywood cut to shape to keep epoxy from dripping down below.Good luck.

sailaway78 · May 20, 2008

Balsa Core

I can almost guarantee you that if you install a backing plate, and fix the cracks, no matter what you use, water will get in sooner rather than later. Since this is your mooring bit, it will be stressed from several directions. A delaminated deck is going to flex, and any kind of repair is going to end up leaking a small amount of water. The balsa core doesn't like water, and works like a sponge. The delamination will continue and will slowly grow larger. Think of this as a cancer, and you either cut it out of there, or it will spread.

Ross · May 20, 2008

Don , Where are you ? I just don't know.

I see from later post that you are in Mass. The biggest advantage of using an ester resin is the setting time or cure time. Vinyl-ester resin sticks as well as epoxy but cures in a couple of hours not days. If you plan to keep this boat then do the job right. I have two rolls of chopped strand mat and a roll of woven roving in my boat put there by my own hand. Some of this was layed overhead by only me with no helpers. If you were close by I would lend a hand but given the distance the best I can do is recommend the books, buy the tools and learn to use them. For taking things apart 25 grit disks are in order, for finer work 36 grit are good for shaping, then do the fairing and go to less agressive grits for finishing. If you paint 125 grit isas fine as you need. Get protective clothing, masks and goggles and gloves and lots of them.

LANCE ON CLOUD NINE · May 20, 2008

I bet the PO removed the two original cleats because

the small factory bolts pulled through the wet core. You could use two large alumn. backing plates, one under the deck and one on top of deck, under your cleat if you just want to go sailing. If you cut the top plate in a large triangle shape and radiased the corners, it would look nice and protect deck from mooring rope chafe. If you sealed it down with 4200, you could remove it during not so precious winter days and do proper glass work as others have prescribed. Good luck.

Steve Dion · May 20, 2008

Capt Tolly's isn't going to work on this.

Don:I would suggest that you use some epoxy on the area for now just so everything is sealed up. You can fill the holes and the crack. Redrill the holes if the backing is solid. Think about a backing plate (alum/stainess,ss washers etc).Then you can fix it properly when you return.

Joe · May 20, 2008

you need a set of chocks....

... if you're going to replace the single cleat. Looking at the picture, it appears the PO removed two horn cleats and replaced them with one big one. That's fine, except a single cleat, samson post, bollard, or bitt or whatever you want to call it requires a set of chocks on the toe rail (it's like a fairlead) to guide the mooring or anchor line over the rail and around the forestay . This is an example of a chock.... http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/14189/377%20710/0/chocks/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710&Ne=0&Ntt=chocks&Ntk=Primary%20Search&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=chocks&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=5000&subdeptNum=24&classNum=736It appears from the picture that the previous owner avoided repairing the old cleats' deck problems when they were small. Instead he covered them up with the single, larger unit (forgetting to add chocks, of course) and things naturally got worse.

Ross · May 20, 2008

In the case of a temporary fix the easiest will be

to grind the area around the damage clean and lay a piece or two of cloth over it. Then grind off any burrs and it will be water tight for at least the season and easily ground away when you make a proper repair.

Ross · May 21, 2008

Dan , The temporary fix won't be expensive. A strip of

glass 3-4 inches wide and long enough to give you 2-3 plies and a cupful of resin will do the job and if you buy Vinylester resin and catalist you can complete the fix before lunch. And the remainder of the big piece of cloth and the resin will keep until this fall when you can complete the repair. The fix will just be a very strong bandaid and splint. If will preclude more damage and be easy to get rid of later. But do purchase a 4 1/2 inch right angle grinder if you can't borrow one. It should be set up to use sanding disks and 2-3 25 grit disks will be enough. You will just be scuffing up the repair area, then wipe it with acetone and be sure that there is no water in the way of the repair. Lay in a coat of resin with a throw-away chip brush and lay in the glass one piece at a time and wet that with resin. When you have all three pieces in place roll it with a grooved roller to compact the glass and smooth everything down. Use a light hand here you are just coaxing this stuff into place. At that point you are done except for disposing of your left over resin. Let it harden in the pot along with the brush and throw it in the trach. Clean your roller with acetone and be fussy about it. I always use the same brush that I used for spreading the resin. and often get a second or third use from it. Take off your gloves and go away for a little while when the resin in the pot is hard the repair will be also and you can reinstall your hardware.Let us know how you make out.Ross

Joe · May 21, 2008

chock space....

if you install the chocks first, on the rail.... you can locate the single cleat or samson post further back, anywhere near the centerline of the foredeck. It doesn't have to be right behind the forestay.

Stillraining · May 21, 2008

I dont know

How you postured your questions to the yard man but I would have to agree with Ross,=quote"I wouldn't let that fiberglass repairman set foot on my boat."He basicly told you your boats not worth $20.00 so let it go to crap!I might let him mow my lawn...maybe...

Fix it right and be done with it...your only saving 1 days sailing time with the temporary fix and 5 or 6 hours actual work..is it worth it?....Kind of like starting your day sail at sunset in my opinion..