What type of bottom paint?

[Levin]

Hello again all...

Ok... so hopefully this will be my last post asking questions about bottom painting. So far in my last few posts I learned about whether I should replace the cutlass bearing preemptively, and how many coats of bottom paint I should put on (two sounds right in contrasting colors so I can know when I get to the second coat).

Now the question becomes: What type of bottom paint? I'm certain I want to go with an ablative paint rather than a hard paint... but is there a major difference in quality from one paint brand to another? The reason I ask is I was going to go with the Pettit Tridad SR but that (according to the boat yard I was planning on using) cost 50% more than Pettit Unexpoxy or Interlux Aqua. Is there a major difference in the qualities of these paints that justify paying that much more for the Tridad or should I go with one of the cheaper paints?

Any advice about good paints would be greatly appreciated. Oh and BTW I'm painting the bottom of a Hunter 340 which I keep in a slip in San Diego's south bay area and will be sailing it mostly in Southern California waters.

Thanks again for the help

-Levin

 

[kloudie1]

Levin, Check out Practical Sailor.com.. They seem to be the only folks who do a multi-season test on bottom paints.. Most of their stuff is done in south Florida so I don't know how relevant it is to San Diego.. http://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/35_10/features/Marine-Paint-Review_5832-1.html

 

[navigator97]

Leven, For the last 11 seasons I have used Pettit Trinadad SR on the bottom of our Hunter 33.5. In May 0f 2009, I did a lot of scraping of loose or flaking paint (mostly near the waterline), and put on a coat of Unepoxy (Black) first, then a coat of Trinadad SR (Green). Note that Pettit Trinadad SR is a modified hard epoxy paint, it is not ablative. Trinadad SR costs more than others but is a good paint. The lowest price is probably at Defenders in Waterford, CT, but the Hazardous Material Shipping (which bottom paint falls under) to San Diego would probably be a killer. It weighs about 20 - 25 pounds per gallon due to the high (~ 70%) copper in it.

 

[Rick D]

Talk to divers in SD. Talk to slip tenants. Talk to yards. I think you will find the preponderance of owners and yards use Trinidad hard paint and have a diver on a regular basis and therefore got four to five years out of a job. You'll find that west coast sailors do not typically use ablative paints. Some of this is tradition and custom. Most is hard-nosed experience. There are other hard paints that cost less and have good experience too but for an expenditure of this magnitude, I'd prefer to stay with what I know. BTW, I think the majority of SoCal boaters would not agree with PS's multi-season results, IMHO.

 

[Gary_H]

I put Pettit Trinadad SR on three seasons ago and it's still working. I went under the boat three weeks ago and cleaned it with a pad excepted for about eight inches along the bottom of the keel where I had to use a scraper minimally.

 

[jimg]

Ditto what Rick said. The haulout itself is expensive. Don't try to save some money on paint and have to repaint a year sooner. Trinidad is probably the number one choice, with the SR being more effective on algae build up. Also, to echo what Rick said, in SoCal you absolutely must have a regular diver/bottom cleaning service.

 

[Eric M]

I'll ditto the good experience with Trinidad SR. 4 years in FL with every other month diver. I'll be pulling to repaint this fall. On that note, the Trinidad was applied by the previous owner, what is the recommended surface prep before applying 2 more coats? Any other tips would be appreciated.
Thanks,
--Eric

 

[Stu Jackson]

Rick's right, it's not what someone 3,000 miles away uses. It's what YOUR yard in your neck of the woods uses and what your (smarter) dockmates use. Go with that.

As far as the types of paint, Rick's right again. Ablative wears off, which is what it's supposed to do. But since those of us who use Trinidad SR and have reported over four years of good service, as I reported in your last post I recall, what's not to like?

I considered the dual color many years ago. Thought it was a great idea. Don't bother - your diver will tell you when it's time to haul again. My diver has categories: excellent, good, fair, time to start thinking, poor on each of his quarterly invoices to me. He's always been right. Also, hard paint doesn't slough off, so you'll never see a color change, except maybe on the front edge of the keel (you can't see that) and maybe on the bow (but probably premature anyway for the condition of the entire rest of the hull).

 

[zeehag]

LEVIN!!!!!!!
TRINIDAD SR by petit. i an in san diego also. is what is good here unless you can get military paint.
i have sailed this bay in sin diego since 1995- yes i do know what is good here both my boats are painted with that. yes is pricey. north bay boat yards are very high in prices. where is your boat going to be hauled out???? call aquarius yacht services-- they do an excellent job. they have their own yard for haulout work. or go to the yard that used to be named south bay boat yard, over near chula vista marina.

 

[Levin]

Hello again...

So it sounds like a lot of people are saying to go with the Tridad in spite of the cost difference. But just to put it in perspective the Tridad SR (according "Marine Group" Boat yard in South Bay SD where I'm thinking of getting the work done) will cost me just over $2000 for two coats and the Interlux Aqua will cost $1326 for the same two coats. This is a huge mark up for paint type, and a lot of money that could go into another haul out if I needed it sooner (they also quoted me $884 for 1 and 1/2 coats of the Interlux meaning one full coat and a second at the waterline... which having this done twice wouldn't be as much as two coats of the Tridad).

And with Rick's comments I'm now wondering if ablative is the way to go... isn't it silly to have a diver and ablative paint at the same time? And I do have a diving service... have had it for some time (they come once a month and have been doing so for about five years that I've had this bottom job). If I go with ablative wouldn't it make sense to at least cut back on them?

Anyway any further thoughts about the wisdom of paying so much more for this paint would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
-Levin

 

[Steve Dion]

Levin:

In Northern Ca., we get Trinidad SR with one complete coat and the 1/2 coat at the waterline for about $850 complete. I think they are screwing with you. Have you contacted a couple of other yards?

Think about a short sail to Ensenada.

http://www.eboatworks.com/pettitt_trinadad_sr.htm

http://www.discountmarinesupplies.c...X_FIBERGLASS_BOTTOMKOTE_AQUA_ANTIFOULING.html

Trinidad $209/gal.
Interlux ACT $160/gal.

 

[seadaddler]

Trinidad SR

I used Trinidad SR 40 in 2008 and that's in Florida which is very very hot most of the time.
Well any way most of my dock neighbors have a diver come and clean regularly but I don't I just dive to keep the prop clean and to check the hull which has a miner slime but as long as I sail alot which I do it doesn't seem to build up except the leading edge a little.
I do notice that when I do dive I always seem to get blue paint on some part of my body mostly on my head so rather than scrubbing regularly and than removing some of the paint I choose to sail it off,that's what seems to work for me in my location and I'll keep doing it until it needs a repaint job but may be different for you but Trinidad SR seems to be a very good long lasting paint for the money if you don't want to haul and paint every year.
Can you find a yard to haul and let you paint yourself that's what I did in 2008.
Nick

 

[Stu Jackson]

2000 - 1326 = 674 / 4 = $168.50 per year.

Yeah, the price seems high, but find a less expensive place and figure out how much per year.

You keep talking about second haulouts, so i don't think you understood my point earlier.

The LESS you have to haul out, the less expensive it is in the long run.

Think about it some more, and listen to zeehag.

Don't bother with ablative, and why for goodness sake, would you consider something that would require you to haul more often???

 

[Rick D]

You are correct that if you go with an ablative, you will only need a diver occasionally. However, you will likely have to haul twice as often. BTW, there is discussion to ban all but hard bottom paints in SD, but I don't think it has yet come to that.

FWIW, I may haul in Baja Naval this fall, in Ensenada. There is some other work I want done, and local yards are far more expensive. In any event, they will put on Trinidad, but they recommend Blue Water hard epoxy for about 70% of the cost. It is what they use most often. I think PS did a review. In any event, it is very similar to Trinidad and may be an option for you wherever you go. Here is a link to their description. this is a big outfit, so you can be assured it isn't some fly-by-night deal. Take a look at their home page to see what I mean: http://www.bluewatermarinepaint.com/coproscx67ha.html

 

[zeehag]

ok. here is the deal. marine group is THE least pricey yard. you have to watch them--they used to be the crush yard unt=der contract to harbor pd. they also have had to change name more than 5 times in past 10 yrs--shadey past!! go to mission bay to the yard that is owned by chuck driscoll--is only yard in sin diego where in you are allowed to od any work yourself. they dont admit to it. insurance problems for doing your own work below waterline. or knight and carver in mission bay. try them--they may be less pricey than over in sin diego bay. in sin diego bay you dont want the interlux--you WANT the trinidad. and you WANT 2 full coats with 4 on leading edges andwaterline. this lasts 5 yrs. i know--is how i do it here. on 2 boats.

as baja naval has been in direct competition with shelter island boatyard and gets parts from shelter island boatyard and san diego marine exchange, i donot see how they are any less pricey than is shelter island boatyard. they use the same union scale , also. if you go to farther south into mexico you get the better deals. btdt.

 

[Levin]

Hello again...

Thanks for all the input. I'm hearing a lot of people say good things about the Tridad, so in the end in spite of the price I might end up going with that. Still, I haven't heard anyone other than Zeehag make any mention of the Interlux. Anyone have any first hand experience with the Interlux Aqua? Does it just not fight the critters the way the Tridad does, or perhaps wear off too quickly? Any thoughts would be helpful because it is a huge step from one to the other.

Oh and Zeehag... yeah so far I've talked to Marine Group and Knight and Carver about prices. Your right about Marine Group being the least pricey... and by a fair bit. I would say they are 20% less on their estimates of equivalent work. Are they really that bad? I mean they are just painting the bottom of the boat and putting a new prop on. Not to tempt fate, but how bad can someone screw that up?

Anyway thanks everyone for all the thoughts...

-Levin

 

[Joe]

hard shell paint, not ablative... especially if your boat sits alot. It has to move to slough off. Colder water in SD than SE U.S... consider that.

If you paint it your self... you can do it for under $1000... Try kohlerkraft in Shelter Island for DIY. Bottom painting is easy if you don't have to make any repairs. The quotes you get from the boatyard DO NOT include the repairs. It's a basic clean, prep and paint over existing paint. $3000 is ridiculous unless they are going to remove the old paint, make any repairs... then prep, primer and paint. I wouldn't pay extra for SR out here. Get recommendaton from yard then ask them to how to set up an account for you at SD Marine so you can get the vendor discount.

 

[Rick D]

As a point of comparison, here is a link to the rate page at Baja Naval. Z is correct that most of the parts they use are US sourced and no deal. The deal is labor rates at 50% - ish of US and SO much less tacked-on environmental fees plus no special SoCal Air Quality Management special formulations. I don't intend to sound irresponsible, but I have been suffering too long on the bloody edge of environmental experimentation and am not thrilled about being everyone's test mouse.

I am not necessarily advocating Mexico. I expect the cost will be the same to slightly more when I add a few days of hotel, food, drink and extras in the equation. Still, I get a nice vacation, a change of pace and a quality job.

In any event, if you have not already become a believer, do a dock survey. And, ask about Blue Water if it still pains re: Trinidad. Good luck! Here's the link: http://www.bajanaval.com/frboatyardrates.html

 

[zeehag]

kohler no longer allows do it yourself due to insurance issues. they stopped that a few yrs ago when i was last out there ,unless they are again allowing--never can tell with them--so many changes-they just remodelled and grew a lot, so they could be spensive now.-- . southbay boatyard, alias marine group , may be ok --. i had a bottom job at southbay done on ericson i own--they did an adequate job. hard to screw up bottom paint.

 

[Old Skool Neil]

I realize it's a little far to go for a bottom job but for comparison King Harbor Marine Center in Redondo Beach (L.A. area) charges $750 for travelift round trip, pressure wash the bottom and a single coat of Trinidad for a 30' sailboat. Extra coats are extra $$.

Their travelift is in good shape, you can do your own work if you prefer, drive right into the yard with your vehicle and park in front of your boat. They even provided me a yard key so I could work before or after hours. If they're doing work on the boat, lay days are free, otherwise lay days are $3/foot/day. There is a $50/gallon surcharge if you bring in your own bottom paint.

My recent haulout in July was from Friday to Tuesday. For the work I did, I prepped and painted 2 coats of topsides paint, replaced 2 thru-hulls, prepped and painted 2 coats of my own Trinidad. The work the yard did was 1 coat of Trinidad. Total yard bill was $836 for my Catalina 30. I was very happy, great haulout for a reasonable price.