I'm looking at a 94 Catalina 30 with a Universal diesel. To be honest, I'm assuming that it's an M25 or similar variant. What items would you recommend checking? It has the newer style alternator bracket, I have not checked wiring harness at the panel, fluid reservoir (coolant?) under the sink is empty, no fluid leaks of concern were spotted, exhaust hoses have some significant cracks and need replacement and the runtime is only 934 hours.
What to inspect on a C30 Universal M25 before purchase
- Thread starter Project_Mayhem
- Start date
Look at the general cleanliness of the engine and surrounding area, should not smell diesel. Check the oil dipstick and look in the valve cover as best you can to determine if the oil was changed regularly (oil will be black but any metal should look clean with no "varnish" or sludge apparent). Make sure the engine coolant looks clean. Look at the exhaust exit for excessive soot or oil residue. Look closely at the raw water pump to determine if it is leaking - look below the raw water pump for signs of rust, especially on the oil pan - if this is a fresh water boat, then doubtful rust will be a problem. Look closely at the heat exchanger for leaks, condition. Look at the motor mounts, likely are original. Check the transmission fluid, should be clean and at the correct level.
Hopefully you are able to run the engine, if so:
* See how easy it starts when cold (should start quickly after running the glow plugs).
* Diesels are noisy - check for "excessive" noise.
* Look at the exhaust, shouldn't be too smoky, check for black (fuel), blue (oil) and white (water) smoke.
* Make sure there is sufficient cooling water coming out of the exhaust (RPM dependent).
* Warm up the motor to operating temperature.
* Run the motor at various rpm's, including full throttle and check for smoothness/vibrations.
* Put the trans in forward, apply some throttle, put in reverse, apply some throttle - have someone ensure the engine doesn't move much when going forward to reverse (motor mounts).
* Make sure the engine temperature has remained consistent.
* If you can take if for a drive, put the motor through its paces.
Hopefully you are able to run the engine, if so:
* See how easy it starts when cold (should start quickly after running the glow plugs).
* Diesels are noisy - check for "excessive" noise.
* Look at the exhaust, shouldn't be too smoky, check for black (fuel), blue (oil) and white (water) smoke.
* Make sure there is sufficient cooling water coming out of the exhaust (RPM dependent).
* Warm up the motor to operating temperature.
* Run the motor at various rpm's, including full throttle and check for smoothness/vibrations.
* Put the trans in forward, apply some throttle, put in reverse, apply some throttle - have someone ensure the engine doesn't move much when going forward to reverse (motor mounts).
* Make sure the engine temperature has remained consistent.
* If you can take if for a drive, put the motor through its paces.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 21,880
WOW!
Are you finding a need for a bigger boat? 5 ft itis is a contagion that hits us all...
Regarding the engine, it is the usual things. Cleanliness is next to godliness. Go over the systems: Fuel, Air, Cooling, Oil, Transmission, Shaft, Electrical, etc.
Are you finding a need for a bigger boat? 5 ft itis is a contagion that hits us all...
Regarding the engine, it is the usual things. Cleanliness is next to godliness. Go over the systems: Fuel, Air, Cooling, Oil, Transmission, Shaft, Electrical, etc.
- Are there signs of leaks or signs of damage?
- Does it start without delay?
- Is there fuel on the water after the start?
- Smoke?
- Run smoothly?
- Move into and out of gear without difficulty or a lot of noise?
- Temperature of engine and parts when running? (Get an IR Temp sensor)
I forgot to mention that it's been on the hard for the past couple of years. The owner said that he started it last year. According to this chart, it has an M35A. I assume this is nearly the same as the M25? I saw the newer style alternator bracket on it.
How hard should it be to get started after being winterized
Noted. What's an acceptable range? Should I just go by the range listed on the gauge?
The need never ceases to exist! I think 60' and a large cruising kitty would sufficeWOW!
Are you finding a need for a bigger boat? 5 ft itis is a contagion that hits us all...
General dirt and a small puddle of oily liquid from a drain valve on the muffler. No signs of leaking gaskets
How hard do you think it'll be to start it after a year?
What key components should I check?
"How hard should it be to get started after being winterized"
It should start up quickly after sitting for a year - as long as the batteries are strong, you run the glow plugs (30 seconds if no relay added, 15 seconds if it has the relay) and open the throttle a bit it should start in 2 - 3 seconds - mine starts in 1 second or less in the spring. If it takes longer, that's not a deal-breaker assuming other things check out but a properly runing engine should start quickly.
"Noted. What's an acceptable range? Should I just go by the range listed on the gauge?"
You can use the gauge - assuming it's frewsh water, it is most likely a 180 degree thermostat (salt water would be 160). Once at that temp, it should remain within 10 degrees of that through testing. Most likely won't even vary that much. If you really want to look at the cooling system, measure various places on the engine with an infra-red thermometer when it is running. Measure the thermostat housing, the heat exchanger, the cylinder heads etc. Anything really, it's easy. You're looking for excessive heat.
It should start up quickly after sitting for a year - as long as the batteries are strong, you run the glow plugs (30 seconds if no relay added, 15 seconds if it has the relay) and open the throttle a bit it should start in 2 - 3 seconds - mine starts in 1 second or less in the spring. If it takes longer, that's not a deal-breaker assuming other things check out but a properly runing engine should start quickly.
"Noted. What's an acceptable range? Should I just go by the range listed on the gauge?"
You can use the gauge - assuming it's frewsh water, it is most likely a 180 degree thermostat (salt water would be 160). Once at that temp, it should remain within 10 degrees of that through testing. Most likely won't even vary that much. If you really want to look at the cooling system, measure various places on the engine with an infra-red thermometer when it is running. Measure the thermostat housing, the heat exchanger, the cylinder heads etc. Anything really, it's easy. You're looking for excessive heat.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 21,880
It depends a lot on clean fuel and fuel lines that are purged of air. I know it is a self-bleed system, but you can also bleed most of the air out of the fuel lines. It should have an electric fuel pump to assist.
Mainesail did a great article on the use of an IR temp sensor.
"small puddle of oily liquid from a drain valve."
I'd keep an eye on this. Look for engine smoke. @dmax hit the highlights. Oily liquid can come from many areas of a diesel engine. I would not get too excited about it, but it is always nice to identify the issue.
Mainesail did a great article on the use of an IR temp sensor.
Engine Temp Monitoring And Overheating Assessment - Marine How To
An Infrared Thermometer This is an infrared thermometer and it is what I consider to be an important tool for any boat owner. As I always say "tools are free". What I mean by this is the expense of the tool,
marinehowto.com
"small puddle of oily liquid from a drain valve."
I'd keep an eye on this. Look for engine smoke. @dmax hit the highlights. Oily liquid can come from many areas of a diesel engine. I would not get too excited about it, but it is always nice to identify the issue.
I would pull the dip stick and smell the oil. You don't want a burnt aroma. Check the oil filter. Westerbeke/Universal filter is a good indication of the owners thought process on maintenance.
Drop the end caps on the heat exchanger and see if you can view the interior of the tubes. Check the exchanger zinc while there. Check the water separator for water in the bottom. While in that space, check the raw water strainer for debris. Check the bilge. Owners with engine issues can wipe away and clean up issues. They often overlook the bilge, a spot that will capture all engine sins...
Drop the end caps on the heat exchanger and see if you can view the interior of the tubes. Check the exchanger zinc while there. Check the water separator for water in the bottom. While in that space, check the raw water strainer for debris. Check the bilge. Owners with engine issues can wipe away and clean up issues. They often overlook the bilge, a spot that will capture all engine sins...
In addition, Look at the mast step area to see if there is any depression or stress cracks. Also, not sure when Catalina changed the mast support in the bilge but on my '89 it was rotten. The support is adjacent to the forward bilge wall directly under the support column. I had my surveyor poke a probe thru the bilge wall and it came back wet and "saw dusty". You can inspect the head door margins. If the margins are not even and regular consider that maybe the mast support block is compressing. BTW, I stripped out the old block and added a new one in an 8 hour day (my mast was down).
On my boat, there were two multi-pin plugs. One is behind the cockpit control panel and one is near the engine. Found mine because we melted it trying to start the engine- probably corrosion.
Also, look closely at the shaft support. We had an imbalance on the engine that vibrated a leak open at the strut. The leak showed in the bilge coming from aft below the companion way ladder.
Is there any evidence of water coming down the mast wiring into the cabin?
Are the liflines bare or vinyl coated. If the latter, are there any tears and internal hidden corrosion?
Is there any evidence of leaking thru the side ports ( fixed and opening)?
All of these issues are fixable depending on your skill set and wants.
There is a wealth of information on how to address these as well as many other upgrades on the Catalina groups sites
On my boat, there were two multi-pin plugs. One is behind the cockpit control panel and one is near the engine. Found mine because we melted it trying to start the engine- probably corrosion.
Also, look closely at the shaft support. We had an imbalance on the engine that vibrated a leak open at the strut. The leak showed in the bilge coming from aft below the companion way ladder.
Is there any evidence of water coming down the mast wiring into the cabin?
Are the liflines bare or vinyl coated. If the latter, are there any tears and internal hidden corrosion?
Is there any evidence of leaking thru the side ports ( fixed and opening)?
All of these issues are fixable depending on your skill set and wants.
There is a wealth of information on how to address these as well as many other upgrades on the Catalina groups sites
Are compression tests not performed on diesels?
I assume the relay reduces resistance, thus higher voltage to the glow plugs?
I only saw one spin on filter when I poked my head in there. Is this normal?
The deck has some soft spots. The mast step is sunken, even without the mast. I noticed maybe an 1/8" difference in the gap of the head door. The owner has significantly reduced the price because of these known issues which I can fix. The rest of the boat appears to be in decent shape. It needs some maintenance as expected though.
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"Are compression tests not performed on diesels?"
No, certainly do a compression test if possible.
"I assume the relay reduces resistance, thus higher voltage to the glow plugs?"
Yes, shortens the wire length so less line loss.
No, certainly do a compression test if possible.
"I assume the relay reduces resistance, thus higher voltage to the glow plugs?"
Yes, shortens the wire length so less line loss.
The service manual lists the compression for an M25 at 427PSI and the M35 at 448PSI. What's an acceptable range?
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 21,880
The challenge I have seen comes from a broker or the seller feeling taking his engine apart is a bit too much.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 21,880
The engine is an infant. You may be able to get a trusted mechanic to do a survey. It could be money well spent.
I am. I'm gathering knowledge to make sure everything that should be checked will be checked