I am still agonizing over the choice for an icebox conversion kit. The price range varries from about 500 dollars to several thousand (for the engine-driven holding plates). Or I could try and install a small bar refrigerator (AC only) for about 100 dollars. I would be interested in hearing how people made the choice. What caused you to go for water-cooled? or air? How much battery power do you have? Do you use the refrig when you are away from the dock much? Specific decisions and any problems would be appreciated -- I really want to know what I am in for. Thanks
- Status
If you don't need at away from the dock...
Debra: If you do not care about a unit when you are away from the dock you can get yourself one of the thermo electric units and just leave it plugged into the 110vac outlet. They only cost a little over $100 and you have no installation to worry about. If you decide to go with a marine unit you probably are going to want a water cooled unit down in your part of the country. I would suggest that you get at least one battery and maybe two. This will be determine by the amount of insulation and the unit that you purchase. You also need to be able to charge the additional batteries if you are going to anchor out for more than a day or two. I believe that the most popular unit on the market is the Adler/Barbour units. Most sailors that have these units generally seem to like them. You should shop around and weight the advantages and disadvantages of all of the popular units to make an informed decision. Also consider if you can install it or will you need someone to assist you with the installation.
Debra: If you do not care about a unit when you are away from the dock you can get yourself one of the thermo electric units and just leave it plugged into the 110vac outlet. They only cost a little over $100 and you have no installation to worry about. If you decide to go with a marine unit you probably are going to want a water cooled unit down in your part of the country. I would suggest that you get at least one battery and maybe two. This will be determine by the amount of insulation and the unit that you purchase. You also need to be able to charge the additional batteries if you are going to anchor out for more than a day or two. I believe that the most popular unit on the market is the Adler/Barbour units. Most sailors that have these units generally seem to like them. You should shop around and weight the advantages and disadvantages of all of the popular units to make an informed decision. Also consider if you can install it or will you need someone to assist you with the installation.
Reefers
Debra; 12VDC units are cost-effective, simple to install and mostly reliable. Right now, I have a water-cooled reefer and freezer, with separate condensers. I don't like the water cooling. Too much hassle with hoses, pumps, and thru-hulls for the supposed benefit. When the system finally dies, I plan to install an air-cooled unit. Your battery bank has to be pretty hefty, and you'll need a way to recharge quickly. That usually means upgraded alternator coupled to a smart regulator. You could also use a small Honda generator for when you're away from the dock. (I have one and love it). Good luck.
Debra; 12VDC units are cost-effective, simple to install and mostly reliable. Right now, I have a water-cooled reefer and freezer, with separate condensers. I don't like the water cooling. Too much hassle with hoses, pumps, and thru-hulls for the supposed benefit. When the system finally dies, I plan to install an air-cooled unit. Your battery bank has to be pretty hefty, and you'll need a way to recharge quickly. That usually means upgraded alternator coupled to a smart regulator. You could also use a small Honda generator for when you're away from the dock. (I have one and love it). Good luck.
110v Fridge
I installed parts from a dorm fridge in my ice box back in 1995. Still working great si I got my $40 worth out of that investment. I also installed an inverter and run the fridge whenever the motor is running. Stock 50 amp alternator keeps up with it since it draws 25-30 amp when the compressor runs. I posted pictures and a better description in the Hunter forum several years ago. In the photo forum search h34 and see the details Barry
I installed parts from a dorm fridge in my ice box back in 1995. Still working great si I got my $40 worth out of that investment. I also installed an inverter and run the fridge whenever the motor is running. Stock 50 amp alternator keeps up with it since it draws 25-30 amp when the compressor runs. I posted pictures and a better description in the Hunter forum several years ago. In the photo forum search h34 and see the details Barry
To your questions-
1) We have air cooled factory installed Adler Barbour(sp?) in our Passage 42. No choice was made by us, it was a used boat. Unit works well, imperative to get all food/beverage cold b4 leaving for extended time 2) We have 2 8d wet cells 3) We use the unit away from the dock, but to save battery power I use the freezer as a beverage cooler and fill it with beverages and ice and shut off the freezer while underway. Just keep icing it down. Also adds more food storeage room in fridge
1) We have air cooled factory installed Adler Barbour(sp?) in our Passage 42. No choice was made by us, it was a used boat. Unit works well, imperative to get all food/beverage cold b4 leaving for extended time 2) We have 2 8d wet cells 3) We use the unit away from the dock, but to save battery power I use the freezer as a beverage cooler and fill it with beverages and ice and shut off the freezer while underway. Just keep icing it down. Also adds more food storeage room in fridge
Refrigeration is Very Nice - but....
Refrigeration is very nice but it can get involved and expensive. [realize I live in the Pacific Northwest so my situation is different than yours - adjust accordingly] 1. How cold do you need it? Hard ice cream, soft ice cream, or melted ice cream? Our Adler-Barbour "Cold Machine" will provide "hard-soft" to soft ice cream depending on the type of ice cream and then for only two days max. After that it's soft to very soft. Put a cover over the freezer part to keep the cold in. On the other hand, it makes ice great! Margaritas are great on hot days, maybe even better than ice cream. 2. Electrical conductors: Due to the power draw and startup power needs the conductors from the battery to the main panel and thence to the compressor need to be fairly heavy and marine grade wire is expensive. If it will shorten the run considerably consider installing a sub panel. 3. Battery capacity: I went from two group 24s to four golf carts and a group 27 (for starting - when it needs replacing it will be smaller). The golf carts give me almost two days on the hook. 4. Charging: Get a high-output alternator and multi-step regulator. I have a Balmar 70A alternator and a Balmar three-step alternator which works absolutely excellent. The 70A alternator only needs one V-belt whereas with a larger one more belts may be required. If you are constantly on the move then maybe an engine driven unit would be better than 12V. 5. Battery conductors: With the larger alternator and batteries figure on #00 conductors (read "expensive") with, say, #2 conductors to the alternator and engine ground. The new batteries also need acid proof boxes to make the installation NFPA code correct if the batteries are liquid acid type which is probably the cheapest way to go. 6. Additional charging: Recommend a couple large solar panels, say Simens M75 or equal. This will really reduce engine running time. Running the engine to charge batteries is hard on the engine (carbons it up) and it is noisy. 7. Additional insulation: Check the insulation around the ice box and chances are it could use more. The easy part is buying closed cell foam spray insulation but the hard part is applying it. Also, since it continues to expand for several days it can be hard on the cabinetry if over applied. 8. Inverter: A great thing to have when going to the dock especially if it has multistep charging capability. It can charge the deeply discharged batteries properly as well as supply AC power for those other devices. For comparison purposes we have a Freedom 10 which works fine and can pump 50 amps into discharged batteries. 8. Cost: The cost for the A-B unit is the cheap part; it's all this other stuff that adds up - that's the domino effect. Oh, and did I mention an additional heavy-duty battery selector switch, large fuses and breakers? Oh well, what's a few hundred more bucks?? Would I do it over again? Pass me a Margarita and I'll say yes. No more disruptive trips after ice and carrying it down to the boat. Ice blocks don't work all that well anyway. If you can afford a boat you can afford refrigeration. It's only money. The above is my setup but other combinations (holding plates, engine driven, gel batteries, etc.) will alter the situation accordingly.
Refrigeration is very nice but it can get involved and expensive. [realize I live in the Pacific Northwest so my situation is different than yours - adjust accordingly] 1. How cold do you need it? Hard ice cream, soft ice cream, or melted ice cream? Our Adler-Barbour "Cold Machine" will provide "hard-soft" to soft ice cream depending on the type of ice cream and then for only two days max. After that it's soft to very soft. Put a cover over the freezer part to keep the cold in. On the other hand, it makes ice great! Margaritas are great on hot days, maybe even better than ice cream. 2. Electrical conductors: Due to the power draw and startup power needs the conductors from the battery to the main panel and thence to the compressor need to be fairly heavy and marine grade wire is expensive. If it will shorten the run considerably consider installing a sub panel. 3. Battery capacity: I went from two group 24s to four golf carts and a group 27 (for starting - when it needs replacing it will be smaller). The golf carts give me almost two days on the hook. 4. Charging: Get a high-output alternator and multi-step regulator. I have a Balmar 70A alternator and a Balmar three-step alternator which works absolutely excellent. The 70A alternator only needs one V-belt whereas with a larger one more belts may be required. If you are constantly on the move then maybe an engine driven unit would be better than 12V. 5. Battery conductors: With the larger alternator and batteries figure on #00 conductors (read "expensive") with, say, #2 conductors to the alternator and engine ground. The new batteries also need acid proof boxes to make the installation NFPA code correct if the batteries are liquid acid type which is probably the cheapest way to go. 6. Additional charging: Recommend a couple large solar panels, say Simens M75 or equal. This will really reduce engine running time. Running the engine to charge batteries is hard on the engine (carbons it up) and it is noisy. 7. Additional insulation: Check the insulation around the ice box and chances are it could use more. The easy part is buying closed cell foam spray insulation but the hard part is applying it. Also, since it continues to expand for several days it can be hard on the cabinetry if over applied. 8. Inverter: A great thing to have when going to the dock especially if it has multistep charging capability. It can charge the deeply discharged batteries properly as well as supply AC power for those other devices. For comparison purposes we have a Freedom 10 which works fine and can pump 50 amps into discharged batteries. 8. Cost: The cost for the A-B unit is the cheap part; it's all this other stuff that adds up - that's the domino effect. Oh, and did I mention an additional heavy-duty battery selector switch, large fuses and breakers? Oh well, what's a few hundred more bucks?? Would I do it over again? Pass me a Margarita and I'll say yes. No more disruptive trips after ice and carrying it down to the boat. Ice blocks don't work all that well anyway. If you can afford a boat you can afford refrigeration. It's only money. The above is my setup but other combinations (holding plates, engine driven, gel batteries, etc.) will alter the situation accordingly.
I finally decided
After searching the archives and receiving advice from this forum I decided on WAECO 85 and vd-09. My reasons for this combination was mainly guess work based on the size of my ice box(Hunter 34), the intended use( extended cruising on local waterways with the option to cruise the tropics). There are other issues to be encountered like the size of the battery bank and upgrading the charging system but I am going to let my experience dictate what else I need to do. I just recieved the system today and am going to install it this weekend so maybe I'll have more to say on the subject next week. Good luck.
After searching the archives and receiving advice from this forum I decided on WAECO 85 and vd-09. My reasons for this combination was mainly guess work based on the size of my ice box(Hunter 34), the intended use( extended cruising on local waterways with the option to cruise the tropics). There are other issues to be encountered like the size of the battery bank and upgrading the charging system but I am going to let my experience dictate what else I need to do. I just recieved the system today and am going to install it this weekend so maybe I'll have more to say on the subject next week. Good luck.
H34 Icebox - no bottom insulation
during your installation I recommend you cut an access port under the ice box and add insulation there. Barry
during your installation I recommend you cut an access port under the ice box and add insulation there. Barry
I went with the dorm fridge parts
Based on the pictures submitted by Barry and others, I peeled open the top of a small cube style dorm fridge that I had left over from college and removed the full refrigerant loop intact. The aft end of my ice box is easily accessible from the starboard lazarette. I put the compressor on top of the aft end of the ice box. Then I cut a hole big enough to slip the evaporator (the cold part) into the ice box and foamed and taped the fiberglass back into place. I placed the condensor ( the hot finned part) into the coaming forward of the starboard winch. I ran the plug from the whole thing into the galley. When at dock, I plug it into shore power.When sailing, I plug it into a cord I ran over from the 600 watt inverter over by the battery switch panel on the port side of the boat. The inverter in connected to a seperate battery switch so that I do not have to access the inverter to turn it on. I just flip the switch, and plug the fridge into the cord (12 ga). I have a pair of 8D gel batteries (mounted port and starboard)as a house bank and a pair of 27's for a starting bank. Labor Day weekend I ran the fridge on shore power for several hours on 10 to cool the box down to 22 degrees. I put some home made ice cream into the freezer section that night. With the fridge running on shore power that night and then on inverter the rest of the weekend, I had firm ice cream for dessert Sunday night. With minimal motoring for anchoring, the batteries were only down to 65-70% by Monday morning. I was pleased with the result. The whole project cost me $30 for the spray foam and the electrical cord (marine).
Based on the pictures submitted by Barry and others, I peeled open the top of a small cube style dorm fridge that I had left over from college and removed the full refrigerant loop intact. The aft end of my ice box is easily accessible from the starboard lazarette. I put the compressor on top of the aft end of the ice box. Then I cut a hole big enough to slip the evaporator (the cold part) into the ice box and foamed and taped the fiberglass back into place. I placed the condensor ( the hot finned part) into the coaming forward of the starboard winch. I ran the plug from the whole thing into the galley. When at dock, I plug it into shore power.When sailing, I plug it into a cord I ran over from the 600 watt inverter over by the battery switch panel on the port side of the boat. The inverter in connected to a seperate battery switch so that I do not have to access the inverter to turn it on. I just flip the switch, and plug the fridge into the cord (12 ga). I have a pair of 8D gel batteries (mounted port and starboard)as a house bank and a pair of 27's for a starting bank. Labor Day weekend I ran the fridge on shore power for several hours on 10 to cool the box down to 22 degrees. I put some home made ice cream into the freezer section that night. With the fridge running on shore power that night and then on inverter the rest of the weekend, I had firm ice cream for dessert Sunday night. With minimal motoring for anchoring, the batteries were only down to 65-70% by Monday morning. I was pleased with the result. The whole project cost me $30 for the spray foam and the electrical cord (marine).
How do you spell...
overkill? John Nantz?
Wow! What a range, from $30 to God knows how much. Practical Sailor is shortly coming out with a survey on refrigerators. Might be worth waiting to see that before committibng yourself. And we still don't know how big your boat is and how much power you have available. Our O'Day 37 came with an Adler Barbour air cooled unit. It worked well enough but really drew down the batteries (Gp 30) and gradually faded, finally done in by a fire. 'Twasn't the fire that finally killed it but the boat yard whose people broke the aluminum-copper joint on the evaporator. I replaced it with a Frigoboat keel cooler model. This uses the same Danfoss compressor as the A-B units but there are no pumps. The refrigerant circulates through a sintered bronze ground plate outside the hull. It is dead silent, runs at setting 4 of 9, and uses half the juice the A-B did. I had also upgraded the charging system to a high output and installed 4D batteries. We can run three days without charging but much longer if I just shut the thing down for half a day at a time. The ice does not melt, it just defrosts the evaporator. However, I did rewire with AWG10 (was 12). When battery voltage gets down, the system cannot stand voltage drop and will not start. Wiring should be as direct and large as feasible -- and 00 is not feasible or sensible. It's only 10 amps max on start, 4 when running. This is not a windlass. Oh yeah, the water cooling allowed me to put the compressor anyplace -- so long as it was within five feet of the condenser.
overkill? John Nantz?
Wow! What a range, from $30 to God knows how much. Practical Sailor is shortly coming out with a survey on refrigerators. Might be worth waiting to see that before committibng yourself. And we still don't know how big your boat is and how much power you have available. Our O'Day 37 came with an Adler Barbour air cooled unit. It worked well enough but really drew down the batteries (Gp 30) and gradually faded, finally done in by a fire. 'Twasn't the fire that finally killed it but the boat yard whose people broke the aluminum-copper joint on the evaporator. I replaced it with a Frigoboat keel cooler model. This uses the same Danfoss compressor as the A-B units but there are no pumps. The refrigerant circulates through a sintered bronze ground plate outside the hull. It is dead silent, runs at setting 4 of 9, and uses half the juice the A-B did. I had also upgraded the charging system to a high output and installed 4D batteries. We can run three days without charging but much longer if I just shut the thing down for half a day at a time. The ice does not melt, it just defrosts the evaporator. However, I did rewire with AWG10 (was 12). When battery voltage gets down, the system cannot stand voltage drop and will not start. Wiring should be as direct and large as feasible -- and 00 is not feasible or sensible. It's only 10 amps max on start, 4 when running. This is not a windlass. Oh yeah, the water cooling allowed me to put the compressor anyplace -- so long as it was within five feet of the condenser.- Status